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A Mail Entitled '46 Good Reasons Why Given Should Say Goodbye'
'STEVE WATSON, Phillipe Albert, Darren Peacock, Steve Howey, John Beresford, Allesandro Pistone, Stuart Pearce, Warren Barton, Aaron Hughes, Andy Griffin. That was season one, when Kenny Dalglish was in charge.
'Nikos Dabizas, Laurent Charvet, Carl Serrant, Didier Domi, David Beharall, they followed in season two. After that came Marcelino, Alain Goma and Cristavao Helder. Then Steve Caldwell, Wayne Quinn and Andy O'Brien. Robbie Elliott, Sylvain Distin, Olivier Bernard, Titus Bramble. That brings it up to 2003.
'Jonathan Woodgate, Steven Taylor, Stephen Carr, Charles N'Zogbia, Ronny Johnsen, Celestine Babayaro, Jean-Alain Boumsong, Amdy Faye, Craig Moore and Peter Ramage. These were the Graeme Souness men.
'Paul Huntington, David Edgar, Oguchi Oneywu, Abdoulaye Faye, David Rozehnal, Claudio Cacapa, Habib Beye and Jose Enrique followed. Sebastien Bassong and Fabricio Coloccini bring it up to date this season.
'These are the 46 Newcastle United defenders Shay Given has played behind in the Premier League in his 11 years on Tyneside, a total that equates to a new back four every season, and then some. There were others along the way, short-stays, loans and triallists from Franck Dumas to Lamine Diatta.
'These are 46 of the reasons why Shay Given is so fed up his solicitor Michael Kennedy announced on Thursday night that Given is "considering his position" at Newcastle.
Extract from Michael Walker's article in the Irish Times on Saturday 3rd January.
This really should end the debate.
Malachaí, Kerry
A Despondent Geordie Writes
Well here it is, I knew it'd come some day - our few quality players are finally realising Newcastle United is not the place to be. Chuck N'Zogbia had been making noises about leaving for the previous year and a half, so his statement that he intends to leave this January wasn't much of a shock, but still a disappointment. As for Shay, God only knows how he's managed to put up with us this long. All we need now is Oba Martins to follow suit and Toon fans nationwide will be knotting nooses.
With these few talented (and, from what I can tell, decent human beings as far as footballers go) players starting to leave, what is there left to love about the club? Certainly not Dennis Wise. No member of the board will be on next year's Christmas Card list either.
JFK has tried hard and done his best, but he's not exactly a likeable fella is he? It doesn't help that he'll probably get us relegated if he gets the permanent job.
This leaves the remaining players. Almost everyone left seems to either be a pr*ck (Joey Barton, Michael Owen), a cheat (Steven Taylor), or rubbish (mostly everyone else). The few shining lights I haven't mentioned - Beye, Gutierrez, possibly Bassong and Coloccini - will surely be on their bikes if a clear-out starts, and probably will improve a far better side than Newcastle. Surely Liverpool would consider Beye and Gutierrez decent additions to their right flank?
I'll always support Newcastle, but I can't help the feeling that I'm falling out of love with them. This, in turn, has had a knock-on effect to my enjoyment of football in general over the past 18 months.
I just don't feel the passion for the club any more, it doesn't hurt when we lose like it used to. I'm pretty sure I care more about Villa breaking the top four than I do about us getting relegated. Hopefully someone will have a bright idea about how to rediscover my passion, because at the moment it feels like a huge part of my life is missing.
I want to care, but I can't.
Alex K, Geordie in Bath
A Derspondent Hammer Writres...
After hearing on Sky Sports News last night that Scotty one man tacking machine Parker is apparently going to be sold to Manchester City in the next 24 hours. Can I just say one thing to Scott Duxsbury and the Icelandic jokers that own our club. If this does happen which at the moment I expect it will, I would like you all to issue a very public apology to all West Ham fans for your useless bleating over the last few weeks that none of our best players will be sold, as you have lied to the media, the players and most importantly the fans.
I am actually more disgusted with Duxbury then I ever was with Terence Brown, and trust me I hated that twunt.
If we are going to lose all our best players at least have the balls to say so and be honest to the fans for once in your miserable little lives, I'd much rather know about our financial state instead of being fed this propaganda every five minutes saying everything is fine when it quite plainly isn't.
Ross (Quashie is not a replacement) Jenkins
Dirty
Lucas, Mascherano...the dirtiest premier midfield paring for many years.
Seeing these two start together in the second half against Preston set me thinking, has there been a dirty midfield pairing since Scholes and Keane? In fairness they didnt have to much dirty stuff in this game but these two little men are cynical tacklers, typical latinos who protest with a smile after cutting the opponent in half.
Jeff Jagger
These Guys Aren't Fans Of ITV
Today I saw my beloved Nottingham Forest beat - quite resoundingly, if I may be so bold - Man City in their own stadium. It was a fantastic day for all that were associated with Forest, the result, performance, spirit of the crowd and that beeeeeeaut of a volley from Nath. Me and my brother raced home as soon as Network Rail would allow us to, eager to catch up with the highlights on MOTD. Only, we remembered that ITV now have the rights to the FA cup, so we'd be watching their coverage instead. Slightly annoyed, given our opinion of ITV's football coverage (or lack of), and assumption that tonight we would be "the team that dared to dream". We would be the plucky African nation at the World Cup who had a group game against Argentina/Germany/Whoever and nicked a goal. Annoying to think about being patronised, but we could have dealt with it. We had, after all, watched a totally different team to the one who got thoroughly shafted against Doncaster the last time we went to see them play and now so would the whole country (not to mention Forest fans unable to attend the game).
Alas, ITV had other plans. Turns out, Forest aren't Milkmen, Bricklayers and other easy working class stereotypes I had assumed they may have been seen as. ITV, in their wisdom, had clearly decided long before the games were played what they were going to show first and what they were going to pass off for filler inbetween those juicy non-league giant killing matches. Except, Whoops! None of those teams made any difference at all. Forest Green may have shipped three past Derby (which for a while made a great day a GREAT day) but as far as I could see, no upsets. No "Magic". No teams that were expecting to win failing to do so. Except, ah-ha-haa, one Manchester City (and Stoke...and Chelsea, but give me a minute here)
Now, obviously, I'm biased. I like to think I've covered that angle. And of course, ITV are the ones who show Championship highlights (albeit a couple of games, usually Wolves. Or Birmingham. Or Wolves. Or Reading. Or Wolves) so this might be a shade hypocritical. But when BBCsport, Sky, the Guardian Unlimited and our beloved F365 call the Forest v Man City match "Shock of the round" one gets carried away and thinks that, well, maybe it was? Instead though we're treated to watch Derby skank past Forest Green for 15 mins (yeah that was fun, watching Commons waddle to the floor), before we're then submitted to a three minute segment of us, the Hartlepool v Stoke game and Chelsea v Southend - the latter being the one in which the visitors scored a last gasp goal to secure a return match - all in one go. And all, of course, being the failing of the Premier league teams, not the genuine efforts of their opponents. It's pretty big stuff if you're a Forest/Hartlepool/Southend fan. The kind of stuff you wouldn't mind ooooh, I dunno, seeing on TV? For more than 30 seconds? And perhaps more than just the goals, perhaps some actual highlights too? If we don't even get it on the show designated to our league, perhaps now we've made some kind of splash? ('we' the collective Forest/Hartlepool/Southend 'we' here)
Please, ITV, if you're going to harp on and on and on about how "Magical" the FA cup is to teams and how they can cause an upset could you please go into more detail about those that ACTUALLY CAUSE A BLOODY UPSET!? I mean, I found myself wanting the tired old cliches about Brian Clough, the European Trophies, and the 'sleeping giant' tag, when normally I bang my head against the wall when they appear. Hell, get Keegan in to call us "Notts" Forest again, even that would have been something. Don't bore us all to tears about non-league teams and the potential "magic" which doesn't exist at that level (sorry, that is disrespectful and I apologise but let's be real), ignore those three pesky leagues inbetween with teams that occasionally do make a splash, and cut straight to the PREMIERSHIP for all the other highlights and then try and schmaltz us all by saying "all teams are equal" without the "unless they're massive, or so far the other end of the scale that we can patronise them into our own little made-up history world". Match of the Day wouldn't (well, not as much). Please, just do us all a favour and leave the football coverage to those who know how to do it properly these days instead of your fake commentary over three games, and ruining many (and there are many) Forest fans dreams of getting to again see our team strut our stuff like we belong with the in-crowd once more on national TV.
Bryn "Still kinda wish I could have seen Robinho" Cooper, Grantham.
...I know we all complain about Match of the Day on the BBC, and I for one have written in on a number of occasions of how mind-numbingly dull the "pundits" are for one, but how can ITV get their football programmes so consistently wrong all of the time?
I want to know who's idea it is to show the goals before they go to the adverts, just before the highlights of the full match is played. Who in their tiny little mind thinks that that is a good idea?
And also, why do they show s**ty little camera angles on certain matches so you can't watch the game properly? It's so bad; just show us the bastard game properly for God's sake.
Thankfully I was out on the pop last night so I watched the morning edition, so I didn't have to endure Robbie Earle (probably) and Tony Cottee (maybe) drivelling on about something about nothing.
Andy (bring back the tactics truck) Smith, Scunthorpe
...Anyone else think the ITV highlights package was bloody rubbish as well? just like the Formula 1 - Too many adverts! Robbie Earle - how has he still got a job, he is a terrible pundit, always has been and is right up there with Andy Townsend's tactics truck- bobbins!
And if I hear the following phrases again: "Anything can happen on the day", "it's a funny old game football", "That's the romance of the Cup" or "Their players won't be used to our bobbly/waterlogged/poorly prepared pitch" - I will be doing a Keith Moon and throwing my TV out of the window.
Rant over.
Pete (not really in love with the Cup anymore no matter how 'romantic' it is) Ridding
...Pete Gill's interesting article on ITV's inflexibility with highlights will come as no surprise to anyone who watches The Championship. They pick their 'game of the week' well in advance (usually one of Birmingham or Wolves - they're top of the table, you know), and you get extended highlights whether the game merits it or not.
The ITV mentality seems to be that people want to see goals, goals, goals, which is all you'll get from the other matches. Controversial decisions aren't replayed, and sometimes omitted completely. Most games are brushed through in under 20 seconds, with no analysis, discussion or interesting commentary other than someone from the production team pulling out a stat from Opta to let us know that it was the striker's 13th of the season. Woo hoo.
Nik Johnson
...I would like to take this opportunity to thank the BBC, Gary Lineker, Ian Wright, Alan Hansen, Lawro, Garth Crooks and even that weird guy who does Final Score every now and then when Stubbs is ill. Your programming is brilliant, dont ever leave me again.
This weekend I realised how absolutely appalling ITV is when it comes to analysing football. The Champions League coverage is pretty shocking, but this weekend I could hardly believe how appalling the FA Cup 'Match of the Day' was.
1. The 'Abide with me' opening sequence, truly cringe worthy TV at its best.
2. The ad breaks - normally welcome after 45 minutes of painful Chelsea in the champions league, but I am pretty sure actual football time equalled ads and 'analysis' time.
3. At least MOTD put all the rubbish games together at the end of the show, no analysis, and just Middlesborough get on with the job of embarassing themselves.
4. Could ITV afford only 4 graphics, and did they use them all on the Forest Green game, a yellow arrow, a red arrow, a green arrow and a swgiggly white one?
5. Was it completely necesscary to tempt me with potential highlights of Leyton Orient vs Sheffield United, only to find that coverage was of a frozen piece of plastic covering the ground. (insert gag about that being better than 90 mins of sheffield united).
6. The post game interviews were possibly some of the stupidest questions I have ever heard in my life; How hard did 'insert lower league opposition' push you?, What does that victory mean to you? etc etc, did they really expect Carragher to come out and belittle PNE and the quality of their side?
How long is their FA Cup contract for?
Chris (rediscovering Andy Cole's debut single 'Outstanding'), London
A Long But Sensible E-mail About Footballers
Over the weekend I found myself thinking far too deeply about footballers, their behaviour and what we as a public class as acceptable and satisfactory. It comes in light of occurences such as Gerrard being involved in a fracas, yet the club and fans alike all stand proudly by their man. Now I don't know the ins and outs of the incident and nor can I shed any light on Gerrard as a person as I do not know him but merely see the player who performs week in, week out for his club and less often his country.
In the same week, a certain Jermaine Pennant is linked with Real Madrid (a shock too many) after a career so far that has been over-shadowed by controversy, allegations and claims. Having played with Pennant as a youngster in Nottingham however I can shed light that, back then, he was very much a salt of the earth type who just loved playing the game. Some 10 years have passed us by since however so in that sense, I cannot comment on the man he has become but it looks as though further reward may come his way (not many can boast Arsenal, Liverpool, Madrid and Notts County on their CV can they?).
But these are not the only bewildering moments of recent times are they? Addiction level gambling, alcoholism, Joey Barton-ism, Hartson kicking Berkovic, Rio failing to arrive at a drugs test, Terry relieving himself on a bar, Morgan's elbow, Rooney being a petulent little s**t and Ronaldo even more so. We've come to expect not to expect when it comes to our footballers and their behaviour in and out of the game we love. But why are they (more often than not) above the law and why do they act in such a way?
Well when I was watching the FA Cup and the interviews with minnows and giant killers it kind of all hit home at an apt moment. You see, these top, elite, premier, ultimate athletes are nothing more than kids in adults' bodies the majority of the time. A huge slice of them are so detached from the real world and real life that it is impossible for us to expect them to hold the same morals and beliefs as maybe you and I do.
From a very, very young age they are given a lifestyle that is normally only acchieved in later life after years of slaving away in jobs and working your way up. They have bank accounts that have so many zero's within the statement that they can't think of enough ways to spend it let alone have the time to do so (Rooney could have retired at 21 and never had to work again for crying out loud). In essence, they do not have to grow up like you or I and haven't the responsibilities that we have such as first mortgage, deposits on flats, bills to pay, mouths to feed and family to support because to them, it is all diluted into such easily managable problems with the vast rewards they are given.
When I first left education and worked full-time, it was something of a culture shock as it will be for 99% of folks. For them, it was just a step up from youth team to senior team. Culture shock in its own way I am sure. But we can easily forget that whilst many of us work in environments with people ranging from 16-65 of both genders, these lads generally work with teammates that are generally all within a age range of just 20 years. Even the older players are young in 'life terms'. Emotionally, they must struggle to handle real people such as women in clubs that say no or blokes who are unfortunate enough to have confrontations with the 'Pros'.
In many cases, it is merely a case of a boys' club and anyone coming out with some intelligence, understanding of the real world or empathy with the common man is perhaps something of a rariety that is breaking the mould.
I am not saying it is acceptable for them to acts in such ways. But when we hear the next story about a 'hotel-sex-allegation', '2am bar brawl involving Football star' or 'star admitted to Priory', maybe we should remember that these top-flight players are little more than kids in adults bodies. They're yet to grow up in the way we have been allowed and yet to be shown what is really happening in life.
There are ways of changing it. More education at a young age (I know most clubs involved their YTS kids in College and such but perhaps beyond this there should be more). Smaller financial rewards from a young age (I know you can't restrict someones earnings but maybe only a certain amount could be released until players reach a certain age). But ultimately, the sooner we stop idolising players who deserve very little idolisation the better.
Maybe this has all come about as I am now at the age where I've seen full careers in players (eg I remember their debut, their peak and their retirement) but if you haven't guessed, I am pretty f****d off with the whole Premier League footballers thing.
Luke Williamson (and I'm a Chelsea fan) - sorry for the length of this one and thanks for reading
Smug
Re David Charlton's lovely letter in Friday mornings mailbox.
Not so smug now eh? Derby just about scraped past Forest Green, and remind me, how did Billy Davies' first match in charge go away at Eastlands.
You sir, are an idiot.
Richard White, Chesterfield
Where's The Wit Gone?
Who are ya? Who are ya? Who are ya? If there is a more pathetic terrace chant than this I've yet to hear it. Watching the many football highlights programs over the festive period I managed to hear this oh so highly original ditty sung by Stoke (to Man Utd), Fulham (to Chelsea), West Ham (to Portsmouth), Blackburn (to Wigan)...and so on.
Now, it might just be me giving up smoking and slightly irate...but what has happened to original terrace humour? Witty banter? Originality?, songs about your own players or the opposition? Supporting your team? Sadly along with the over commercialisation, the all seater stadia and the new age fans...its seems 'Who are ya' is another in the long line of crap that now comes with the game. Fans of those clubs mentioned should hang their heads in shame, and be thankful the likes of Everton, Liverpool and Man Utd can still sing and chant without sounding like everyone else.
Ex-Pat Dave (grouchy from not smoking)
Not A 'Normal' Tackle
Before the Manchester United v Southampton game yesterday, I watched an interview with the Saints Manager, Jan Poortvliet and was impressed thinking that he came across as articulate and magnanimous. That opinion changed somewhat after the final whistle.
Remarking on Paterson's tackle on Vidic, Poortvliet said "I know the boy very well, it was a normal tackle," - er what!!! That tackle was easily as bad as any I have seen this year and whilst I'm sure (as Ferguson suggests) it was youthful enthusiasm, it was potentially a leg-breaker and worthy of a straight red card.
Vidic's reaction was pleasing though, if Ronaldo had been on the receiving end of that challenge, I imagine he would have risen six feet skywards before returning to the ground following a triple axle (with pike). Thinking about it though, it's a sad state of affairs when you are praising a player for not cheating...
Time for revenge over 'Arry in the next round...
Chris Wilkinson
...Another weekend passes and we see yet another off the ground, studs showing tackle that gets a red card! Yet again we have a manager come out after the game and say it wasn't a red card and the ref ruined the game...
It has been at the forefront of the powers that be for a good 3 seasons now that tackling like that will not be tolerated under any circumstances, however much of the ball you get. It's dangerous and leaves the player on the receiving end of it with no way of defending himself. Fortunately we haven't seen anyone get too serious an injury this season other than when Possebon got nailed by Pogatetz! These challenges are more likely to lead to an Eduardo type injury than any other.
The most high profile injury as a result of a tackle this season came when Fabregas and Alonso went in for a 50/50. This tackle was perfectly legitimate from both players as neither lead with their studs. It just so happened that Alonso had a slightly better angle and Fabregas came off worst. I've had Fabregas' particular injury myself and got it in exactly the same way. We both got to the ball at the same time but my opponent timed it slightly better and I came off worst.
As a lot of people are fond of saying, tackling is an art form! For me going in studs up ain't art and the more red cards for this type challenge the better. Who knows, the manages and players might start to get the message one day!
Tim (I hate the flu) Collins
Pass The Dutchie
What's all the fuss about that normal challenge by young Patterson as rightly pointed out by Saints Dutch manager Jan Poortvliet??
It's just as normal as legal prostitution, banning the smoking of tobacco in bars but allowing cannabis, assassination of right-wing politicians and a pipe and a crepe.
You crazy Dutch b*stard.
Robert Melia
