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Rather Finish Second That Win Carling Cup
It seems to be in every pundit's contract to go on about 'no trophy for Arsene Wenger since 2005' (curiously no-one seems to question Benitez' lack of silverware since 2006, though he is getting all other sorts of grief this season).
Now, of course there should be questions over Wenger - but more because Arsenal have only challenged seriously for the league once in that time (2007-08) and been in real danger of finishing 5th (2005-06) and the whole transfer/youth policy debate, not to mention ridiculous 2-2s at West Ham. (Personally, I'm pro- Wenger but that's a whole other debate).
But, as enjoyable as matches like last night are, I don't see what winning the Carling would prove - except that our third string is the best in the country. Even the FA Cup - nice to win sure, but Arsenal could feasibly finish 6th and win the FA cup by beating Millwall Cardiff etc in the final, and what would these pundits say then? I also offer you a two-word argument in itself: Gerard Houllier.
No, what Wenger (and Benitez) need is a sustained and credible title challenge to show that the club is on the right track. I'd much rather take a close second in May than see Merida lifting the Carling Cup (though preferably both, or ideally a quadruple) even if it would shut up Redknapp and Lawrenson just for a little while.
Henry Defriez, London
Not Caring If Spurs Win Five Carling Cups
Sorry Ms Winterburn, I fight your corner on most issues, but on this we disagree.
As an Arsenal fan (just one, I know, and I don't claim to speak for us all) I can honestly tell you that Spurs winning the Carling Cup last year meant absolutely nothing to me. It barely registered on my radar. The fact that we lost to them in the semi-final, sure, that stuck in my craw for a bit, but the fact that they picked up the three eared jug, even during a period when we have won nothing, didn't bother me one jot.
But it's not because I have no time for the competition; I do. I really enjoy watching our team in the Carling Cup, seeing fringe and youth players (often mixed with a bit of experience as last night) mix it in a more competitive setting, thinking about how some of them could graduate to the first team and generally enjoying the philosophy of football that's coached at all levels at the club. But that's just it, I view it as an extension of reserve and youth teams, and based on Arsenal's approach to the competition, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Some might call this arrogance (fair enough), and I don't doubt at all that it matters to the players, because players always want to win, no matter the level or competition they're playing at, but when we lost to Chelsea in the final in 2007, it was the players I was gutted for, not myself. I want the lads to do well every year, but I don't care in the same way as I do in the other three competitions, and if I asked myself which would I rather have had, reaching the final of the Champions League against Barcelona in 2006 (as we did) or beating Cheslea in the Carling Cup final the following year (which we didn't), it's Champions League finalists I'm afraid.
And the idea that a Carling Cup win would be celebrated with the same level of gusto as leading the league after 38 games played is even more ridiculous. I can still remember the way I felt in 2004, and even after all this time in the wilderness, winning the Carling Cup would not even come close. Like I said at the beginning of this mail, this is just one fan's opinion, and I'm sure there are some that would disagree, but Spurs can win the Carling Cup for the next five years for all I care (as long as they're not beating us en route every time).
Tom Adams, London
The Carling Cup Backlash Continues
Rarely do I read mails more idiotic than Patrick John's or James Byer's this morning. To suggest that the Carling Cup has any significant affect on our season is ridiculous. Since our reserves mainly feature in this competition and not at all in the FA Cup, Champions League, or EPL, what does the Carling Cup have to do with these competitions? How does it suggest that we are still in crisis? Is the Carling Cup really a "bread and butter" competition James? That is maybe the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. If the Carling Cup is bread and butter than what is a league game against Manchester United? Because surely these competitions do not have the same importance. I think if Liverpool, or any big club, cared about the Carling Cup, they would not field mostly reserves. It is not at all worrying to me that our reserves played a great game with Arsenal's reserves, being that Arsenal are a club famous for having young talent.
James and Patrick, your mails are just a pathetic attempt to make our situation seem worse than it really is.
Matthew Trynieki
...Has anyone else noticed the outbreak of bonhomie (that means goodwill, Leeds fans) in this morning's mailbox? In a clear indication of how little the bigger clubs - and their fans - actually regard the Carling Cup, we've got ManU fans knocking their own team, Arsenal fans praising Liverpool, Liverpool fans praising Arsenal - even positive comments on Man City and Chelsea. What's going on? Where's the mindless, subjective bitching? If this is the effect the Carling Cup has on us all, maybe we should think of expanding it - hell - why not invite Israel and Iran to play in it and give peace a chance?
So sorry to buck the trend and disrupt the love-in but I have a few more negative comments on the latest round of the Milk Cup - as was:
Am I alone in finding Sky Sports' constant jizzing over Arsenal's style of play a little nauseating? I mean, Arsene Wenger certainly deserves his reputation for encouraging attractive football, and Arsenal played some REALLY good stuff last night, but there were also times when Liverpool played equally decent football and you didn't hear a dicky-bird from Jeff, Jamie or the Tramp. And apparently both goals had "the Arsenal-way stamped all over them". Really? Merida's came from a misplaced Voronin back-heel (nice hit though) whilst the build-up to Bendtner's included one wildly mis-placed pass and a lucky ricochet off Eduardo. And to top it off, you've got Aaron Ramsey whose interview after the match sounded like a brain-washed cultist: "We got the ball down and played the way we think football should be played". All well and good but you ain't won sh*t in years! It's the same with Brazil - who also have won f*ck all recently. Let's cut down on the w*nkery until they win something eh?
While I'm on the Arsenal/Liverpool game, can I also say how utterly pathetic Babel and Bendtner's contributions were... and they were two of the most senior players on the pitch. I know Bendtner scored but the rest of his play was rancid, whereas Babel... well, words fail me.
Robert (Would GENUINELY be happy for Arsenal to win the Prem playing ''their own' brand of football but is still waiting) Stokes
...As a Liverpool fan I thoroughly enjoyed last night's Carling Cup bash, great goals, end to end action and some lovely passing moves from both sides. Liverpool were beaten fair and square but what really gets my goat is how the media consistently label Wenger's cup team as the 'Arsenal Kids'.
When you compare both sides, the kids of Arsenal are actually quite old, with Kieron 'England's next left-back' Gibbs the same age as Liverpool's Insua at 20, Mikael Silvestre two years older than Liverpool's oldest player Kyrgiakos, Senderos and Skrtel both aged 24, Nasri and Merida the same combined age as Plessis and Spearing and Bendtner a year older than David N'gog there wasn't much to seperate both sides.
Is it just me or is this just an old lazy stereotype that the media churn out every time Arsenal play their reserves? Are these players ever going to grow up or are they just stuck in a time freeze along with the likes of Peter Pan and Shaun Wright Phillips? Whatever it is there on, I'd quite like some of it myself.
Dave (I'm only 26) Williams
Does Wiley's Fitness Matter?
Alan Wiley, at times, looked like he was struggling with the pace of the game last night...but then again, who wouldn't? I often found myself telling him to get out of the way as he seemed to be caught up in the middle of Arsenal's (and Liverpool's) intricate, quick passing through the middle of the park. At times It made him look very cumbersome and out of shape; but when I stopped to think about it, due to the pace of the game, how was he supposed to get out of the way ?
I actually think that Alan Wiley helped the game (not particularly his own health) by all in all he taking charge of a good-spirited game between Arsenal and Liverpool very well last night. He allowed the game to flow and because of the lack of malice involved kept his cards in his pocket (particularly with Gibbs' mis-timed challenge).
On last night's performance (forget the penalty appeal...we all saw it in slow motion!) I think what Mr Wiley lacks in fitness, he makes up with in refereeing ability.
Chris Wrightson, Croydon
Not A Two-Man Team
I know Tom Buckland was only kidding but the common assertion that Liverpool is a two man team is quite ridiculous. The FACT is Reina, Johnson, Agger, Mascherano, Kuyt, Gerrard and Torres would all be regulars in pretty much any team in the world and Carragher, Skrtl and Benayoun would be in contention for most.
Douglas Fenech, LFC
The Answer Is 25 Points, Stat Fans
Mr Brown's days are surely numbered. He had no plan B, and dare I say it, barely a plan A. Hull are a shadow of the team that took the Premier League by surprise this time last year, and are doomed for relagation sooner rather than later unless they change things around at manager level. I reckon if you look at Hull's results in their last 38 league games this will prove my point. So please step up, number and stats-keen volunteer, because I can't be bothered to do it myself. If it comes to over 40 points (or this stat has already been published) then I'm going to look pretty silly aren't I.
Haydn, London
Still Loving Phil Brown Though
While reading 'Ger Scully AFC, Ireland's hilarious, and probably pretty accurate summation of the Hull shambles, something horrible and overwhelming struck me, I love Phil Brown.
The man is unquestionably a penis, a buffoon of monumental scale, but he's also utterly hilarious. There is no other Premier League manager whom I both despise and adore in equal measure. Which other manager would take his team talk on the pitch, serenade his own fans, or, most bizarrely of all, claim to have saved the life of a young lady while 'trying to clear the heads' of his bemused and underperforming team. There is no other authority figure in the Premier league that would dare wear a pink cardigan tied around his shoulders on a Sunday highlights programme (Goals on Sunday anyone?), the man is an absolute disaster.
Which is where I think my love for Phil Brown stems, yes he's an utter nightmare of a man, self-serving, egotistical, full of utter nonsense, a penis of the highest order, but he's our penis. He makes me laugh more than any manager in the Premier League with his bizarre and absurd behaviour. So please hull, if you're reading this (I have no doubt they're currently looking for all the inspiration they can get) don't sack Phil Brown...the world of football needs him.
Jamie (can I go as Conor Byrne for Halloween?) Stewart
My Three Goals...
As a United fan, my first thought was three goals in last season's Champions League final for a totally-undeserved 3-2 win, but on reflection I'd just take one from one of our chances (probably Park's) in the first few minutes before Barcelona scored. We might, in this wonderful alternate reality, have kept control of the game and gone on to win, or we might still have spent 80 minutes chasing shadows and passing badly, but I'd like to know one way or the other and at least it wouldn't have been quite so embarrassing.
My second would be Ruud van Nistelrooy scoring that last-minute penalty against Arsenal (in a game I watched in the away section, to tie into another current mailbox theme) - although it would have been a shame to lose the subsequent monkey impressions from Arsenal, it would have stopped this Invincibles rubbish before it started, and that would definitely be worth it.
Can't decide for the third - the Porto game mentioned by a previous mailboxer is a good shout, or the Bayer Leverkusen tie when we went out on away goals. On balance, I'd probably go for the home game against West Ham on the last game of the season where Tevez scored and the win kept them up, despite having two ineligible players and the subsequent fine being about a sixth of the money they got for survival, but I'm open to suggestions.
Jim
...Three goals that never were? Piece of p**s:
1) Paul Scholes goal against Porto, 2004. Had that been allowed and not wrongly denied for offside, United would have gone on and beaten a sub-standard Monaco side in the CL final, securing Ferguson second European Cup.
2) Sol Campbell's goal against Argentina, 1998. Had the goal stood, as it should, England would obviously have held out to beat Argentina, clearly gone past a still-squabbling Holland side, and then a porous Brazil side in the semi to engineer a final against the French who'd have inevitably crumbled under the pressure of playing the inventors of the beautiful game in their own back yard. England win the World Cup.
3) Sol Campbell's goal against Portugal, 2004. England would have easily held out the diving, cheating Portuguese to go on and obviously beat a terribly defensive Greece side in the European Championships to add this to their second World Cup, won eight years earlier. England own Europe.
Had these goals been allowed my life would be infinitely better.
Harry, Manchester
Away-Day Tales
I was reminded of a match I went to in 2000, Liverpool v Blackburn FA Cup match, and as a friend of ours was a Blackburn fan he offered me and my Liverpool supporting scouse mate tickets to watch the game in the away end sitting with the Blackburn fans. As an Ipswich fan I went along just to see some live footy, but my scouse friend was determined to support Liverpool. I made sure those around me knew I was an Ipswich fan and therefore neutral.
As you will all well know Nathan Blake scored for Blackburn with six minutes to go and the Blackburn end went wild. It was already clear to them early on that me and my mate weren't Blackburn fans, and so when the goal went in the fans around us turned and celebrated enthusiastically in front of us, as is their right of course. In an attempt to get them to stop pointing and cheering I again made sure those around me knew I was an Ipswich fan and therefore neutral.
The reason I remember the match so vividly was something that happened in the last minute as many of the Liverpool fans were leaving the main stand, especially those who had been taunting the Blackburn fans all match. As the stand got eerily quiet, and the Blackburn fans sang vociferously, a lone voice could be heard from the empty seats near the top. Some trackysuited scally wag was jumping and pointing and shouting 'Blackburn! Blackburn!' Eager to hear this sole supporter's erudite views the Blackburn fans stopped and allowed him to shout the unforgettable following words. "Coronation Street!!!!"
Words failed me. For three or four seconds the Blackburn fans stared open mouthed, incredulously looking at one another, and then, to a man, fell about pi**ing themselves with laughter and pointing at me and my scouse mate, him shaking his head in his hands and me desperately trying to tell those shouting and laughing around me I was an Ipswich fan and therefore neutral.
Chris Harrison, Liverpool
Oompa Loompa Corner
I'd like to take issue with the arrant nonsense spouted by Ger Scully in this morning's mailbox.
Oompa Loompas clearly have green hair!
Marky B. MUFC
The Foreign Invasion
Can I ask where has all the homegrown talent gone? Day after day I sit and read post after post from our friends accross the world. Yes you provide flair, a different style and moments of sheer brilliance but where is the steely grit of an Englishmans wordsmanship?
Or do you at F365 feel obliged to post them because the Emails have travelled a further distance...
Mike 'this is tongue in cheek' Gilbertson
