The Sign Of A Very Poor Game
I would love to join in with the opinions voiced in this morning's mailbox about United's match last night but I fell asleep during the first half it was that boring. And when I woke up at half time turned over to watch Top Gear. Top Gear FFS!!
Cameron Wilford
Man United = The Office
Does anybody else see the similarities between 'The Office' and the situation at Old Trafford? You've got Sir Alex in charge (David Brent/Michael Scott) with the Neviller (Gareth/Dwight) as his right-hand man, his assistant to the Manager if you will. And no matter how much the Neviller sucks up to Fergie and generally makes an arse out of himself for the club, you just know that when it comes down to it, Fergie will tell the Neviller to clear off and promote Ole Gunnar Solksjaer (Tim/Jim) to his assistant. If only every TV in the Neville household wasn't permanently tuned into MUTV, he'd at least no what's coming. Almost makes you feel sorry for the little s*%! doesn't it?
Ben (27 days to Christmas!) McGill
Fergie Must Go!
I'm probably going to get alot of stick for this if it's published, but this is a view I've had for a while now: Ferguson must go. Every time Man Utd have dropped points this season it has been due to a poor team selection by Ferguson, with the exception of the Chelsea game. Coupled with the fact that he doesn't do substitutions until at least the 75th minute, and usually he takes off the wrong man anyway, his ignorance has cost us on several occasions. The constant finding of excuses and his inability to blame his own players (some say this is a good thing...) mean that we are going in circles.
It also has to be said that his recentish signings, and last summer his lack of signings, have been almost overwhelmingly average or bad; for example Nani, Carrick, Berbatov, Kuscack and Tosic have in my opinion been poor compared to expectations, while the jury is still out on Hargreaves, Obertan and Anderson. Not snapping up an adequate replacement for Ronaldo in the summer was also a ludicrous decision, leaving us with Giggs, Park, Obertan and Valencia, none of whom are world-class wingers as Giggs is past his best. With Rio's injury problems and Vida's interest in spain, it now is clear that it was a shocking decision letting both Shawcross and Pique leave, they are both capable of becoming world-class, and Shawcross is a homegrown talent, so one should have stayed. Also despite the clear lack of talent in goal, Ferguson doesn't want to splash the cash on Akinfeev, a goalkeeper who has been playing first-team football for six years and is only 23, and someone who could develop with Van Der Sar to guide them.
In centre mid Carrick is only good in a three-man midfield, otherwise he is terrible. Gibson doesn't have the quality or attributes, his only strength is his shooting and that let him down last night. Anderson I think if given the time will be a top midfielder, he has pace, power and a good range of passing, but is only 21 and needs a consistent run in the team like Fabregas for Arsenal to develop. Fletcher is without a doubt our most important player and of course it remains to be seen if Hargreaves is permanently crocked and whether he can return. Scholes and also G Neville should retire at the end of the season. Up front we don't have a clear no 9, Rooney sometimes thinks he's a midfielder, as for Berbatov he is best behind a number 9, but we don't have one which is the main problem. Welbeck is overrated and way, way too selfish, but Macheda does have promise.
In conclusion, it is because of Ferguson's poor team selections, substitutions, tactical ineptness and transfer decisions that Man Utd are in the position they are in now. We should be top of the league as apart from the Chelsea game which we were sort of expected to lose, all the others were winnable. The team needs tweaking and rebuilding, and Ferguson won't stay boss long enough to see it through, so he should step aside and let a new manager step in in January. We probably won't win anything this year anyway so if Ferguson did step aside it would be a transitional season and give the new boss time to find the problems and weaknesses and fill them in. This way Ferguson would still end with the total respect of most, and on a high.
Arminio (four paragraphs is the new three), Birmingham
Fergie: Loser
Did you enjoy drinking the ManU Kool-Aid, F365? Because that is what you have done.
Putting 'Manchester United' in as one of the Losers in your always-odd Winners-Losers column, you have managed to exonerate Alex Ferguson. You say his player selection 'should not have' resulted in their losing at home to Besiktas. Really? And Liverpool 'should not have' exited the CL, either, by the same reasoning. Yet Rafa Benitez is specifically named in the Losers when 'Liverpool' are already in there, too. The manager is responsible for the results, especially when it becomes clear that a visiting side was clearly underestimated (and youth players overestimated).
Put Alex in there, too, is all I'm saying. Be consistent. Or are you worried he won't give you an interview you were never going to get?
Loser.
Scott, LFC, Toronto
Not Worried About Poor United
As a Manchester United fan, I often wonder why we are treated with almost universal disdain. After Barry Owens' contribution to the mailbox today, I now understand the exact cause for this hatred. With sentences like, '...against teams they should be beating out of sight without too much trouble...against a team that is no better standard than a lower-mid-table Premier League team at best.', is it any wonder? It may be prudent for Barry to remember that United do not possess a God-given right to win football matches.
I was pretty disappointed about the loss of an eight-year Champions League home record but I also drew some positives from the game. The team played some excellent football in the first half showing glimpses of the fast, interchanging passing that we are used to seeing from the first-team regulars. I was impressed by Gabriel Obertan and Darron Gibson's efforts in particular. For me, the loss was due to inexperience. Fergie, quite rightly, picked mainly senior players for the back four but the team really lacked experience in the attacking third. The inclusion of Rooney or Berbatov from the start would have made all the difference.
Michael Carrick however, continues to infuriate me every time he touches the ball.
Andy (funny how the ABUs aren't complaing about the five minutes of added time when United lose) Chiu, Newcastle
...Can all these so-called Manchester United moaning and whinging in this morning's mailbox find some ****ing humility and perspective, please?
Firstly, so what if we lost. We've qualified. That, alone, is something to be proud of, just ask any Liverpool fan you care to come across.
Secondly, we could, and should have won it. We were denied a second clear penalty for the second consecutive European night in a row. I thought these European referees were meant to be better than the utter tosh that we have to put up with in this country? That was ridiculous last night and how the referee missed it is beyond explanation. What's more, Macheda was denied another possible again by fantastic goalkeeping and terrible luck, not to mention Wes Browns header in the final few minutes.
Some numb-nuts was banging on this morning that Owen and Carrick are useless and limited, but after they came on we created three fantastic chances to score all of which should have been put away. All AFTER they came on. Coincidence? You do the math.
All that we lost last night was our unbeaten record. So what? It was never going to last forever - it had to end some time. I'd much rather it end now, than to Madrid or Inter in the knock-out stages. Get over yourselves and be thankful that we at least have the manager, and the squad to qualify for Europe's biggest and most important club competition. There are those out there that are less fortunate than yourselves. Grow up.
Harry (f*ck the brackets!) - Manchester
...United's reserve team lose in Europe. And suddenly the floodgates open. Fergie should quit, the young players aren't good enough, Carrick and Anderson should be sold and so on and on and on.
Let's look at the facts.
1. We qualified for the second stage with two games to spare.
2. We are second in the league, in a better position than last season, with our most effective attacking threat sold in the summer.
3. Expecting seven or eight young players to come into the team and perform exceptionally is a hard ask. Let's rate the young players when one or two of them play with the first team, where they will have colleagues with experience and nous to support them. (not a fact, more an observation).
I could rebuke all the points made by Barry Owens, AKV, but not Conor (Gibson is muck), but this would be increasingly tedious, besides they have the hint of pool wums.
If they are United fans then I would refer them to Mark from Hampshire's earlier mail, as they are the antithesis of the forgive-all fan, they are the forgive-nothing fan, and are equally as irrational and embarrassing.
Eoin O'Donnell, Dublin
Under-Performing?
Can people stop using the term 'failed to perform' when referring to players such as Darren Gibson (as was mentioned in this morning's mailbox)? An average player who plays mediocre football should be expected to play as such. So when that player puts in another average performance, he by definition 'performed'.
It's like going to a Keane gig, if they're not exciting or technically great you can't say they failed to perform.
Damien (not a Keane fan) Quill
Dear Rafa...
About a year before Houllier left Anfield, I was at a stage where I'd concluded he would never win the league. I now have the same feelings towards your good self. Credit indeed for the highest points total last season, but I believe that last year was an exception rather than a true reflection of your squad's capability. As for 'wanting' Liverpool to lose, it's kind of like deciding to 'put down' your ill dog; you don't want to do it, but it's for the best.
You my friend have had your time and now is the time for a change. I remember sitting on my mum's knee to watch Liverpool as a very young boy and I've witnessed (some first hand) all of the highs and lows ever since. To hide behind the 'never walk alone' is a cheap shot. Every fan has his player/manager likes and dislikes. To dare suggest that I'm no true fan because I can see that this marriage is heading nowhere is both arrogant and short-sighted. I'm simply not afraid to call a spade a spade.
If and when a new manager comes in, he's hardly in a position where he won't need to overhaul the squad is it? Every time a new manager arrives at a big club, there is usually an overhaul of playing staff - obvious to see why. I won't diss any of the current playing staff, because those are the players that you've put into the squad. I won't do as you did and bad mouth the previous manager's player choices - I guess you don't mind him walking alone. The amount of players that you've brought in and shipped out again is quite staggering to say the least - and this is one of the primary reasons why you should go - you do not have a consistent eye for a good player and have spent many many millions on finding out how good players are. You certainly can't make good players better. I'll bet Babel is gutted he never went to Arsenal, because deep down, I'm sure everyone would admit that Wenger would have turned him into a super player.
If you want to continue this fight on the Footie365 mailbox, feel free as I have no qualms I can vindicate my arguments further with some 'low level' examples of why now is the time you should walk away with your head held high.
Dave, Somerset
Backing Bordeaux
I know this will not be printed because it does not talk about Liverpool çrashing out or United's poor performance, but has anyone noticed that one team has beaten Bayern Munchen twice, Juventus once (without their best player) drawn in Turin, and finished first in perhaps that hardest group with a match in hand against the weakest side?
Laurent Blanc's Bordeaux must surely be taken seriously. They score around 60% of their goals on set-pieces, have one of the best midfields in the world with Gourcuff pulling the strings, a solid defence, and in Chamakh they have a selfless striker who shows that you can run around for 90 minutes pulling defenders wide and still be a quality player.
They have to be considered a serious contender for this Champions League, and are my dark horses for this competition.
Guillaume, Paris
Sing When You're Winning...
As much as I might agree with the emails from Rob and Andrew about Spurs. I think it is also good to stress that you should sing/shout/go mental/gloat when you're winning because who knows what is around the corner. A colleague of mine who is a Liverpool fan remained totally unexcited (the word 'downbeat' springs to mind) after the United victory and after missing that opportunity to celebrate must feel totally suicidal now (maybe I should go and check on him?)
The euphoria after a win seems to last a shorter and shorter amount of time (maybe I peaked in my teens) as I get older. It only seems like yesterday that I was screaming down the phone - we've just scored 6! - to a bored fiancé only now to be wondering whether Ashley Young (who, I might add has done absolutely nothing this season - my fantasy footie team doesn't lie) is going to rip us to shreds and it's only Thursday! By Friday, I will have convinced myself that a draw is a great result and by Saturday morning a 1-0 defeat won't hurt too much.
Oh and in the now infamous words of Henry 'Eh - Bobby!' have you seen our run-in?
Ike 'The run in from hell: Arsenal (h), Chelsea (h) and Man Utd (a) in April - we'll need at least a 10 pt lead to be safe!' Ndukwe
Bored Of Snobbery
Re: Leon 'bored with small club inverted snobbery', Gooner (this morning's mailbox); as a man with both Torquay and Arsenal ties, I'm not sure you quite get the mentality of supporting a smaller club. Of course the standard is poor at times - but you're talking about clubs who barely have 50p to spend on training facilities, let alone spend on players. Torquay actually try and get it on the deck and play some decent stuff. It doesn't actually take that long to look at the League Two highlights (on some website - *cough*) - and there you'll see some slapstick defending but also some goals of great quality. Rotherham's two and Torquay's first some notable examples. But don't let that get in your way of making unfounded generalisations.
The truth is, there aren't enough hardcore Arsenal fans at the games anymore, which is why the atmosphere is lacking. For smaller teams, a good atmosphere is what makes going to games worthwhile - you need the banter and the camaraderie to sustain you during barren periods (of which there are many). But, it makes those rare moments of triumph all the sweeter. (Conference playoff final 2009 - a superb day). Maybe this will illuminate for you why fans of smaller clubs may be less enchanted with your shiny new stadium than you are. And with Arsene's brand of perfect football, well, Arsenal fans are a bit spoilt, aren't they? Funny, then, that it's usually Spurs fans who come across as brats. I digress.
Your condescending attitude to lower-league teams is no doubt a result of the post-1992 PL hegemony. You talk of a "'we're in a minority, together' mentality that forms." It's hardly exclusive to the Gunners, is it? Next time have a think before further propagating the idea that most Arsenal fans are clueless pillocks.
Mike Hall
Shouted: Overrated
In response to Paul and Leon - I'll start off by saying that I'm an armchair fan - I played football on Saturdays throughout my youth. It may be a little bit controversial but I've always found that going to football matches was a little bit over-rated so maybe that's why I don't appreciate certain nuances of the game.
Which, sort of, brings me on to my main point: to me, the passion with which opposing fans argue the merits of their loudness is astounding. Are fans really so childish to believe that collective noise is a badge of honour worth promoting???
Given the apparent level of interest in who is shouting loudest at games - maybe Sky should use their technological wizardry to have some sort of decibel measuring apparatus in place for all games.
Then maybe a league table could be drawn up based on the average volume attained over the course of the season.
I suppose it would have to be done on a pro-rata basis - given the differences in stadia capacity - but I'm sure some sort of Duckworth-Lewis Method could be devised so we can finally know who really are the most vocal fans in the country!
I wouldn't even rule out a Champions League of shouting in the future!
And just think, it would probably give Liverpool the chance of winning something!
Dan (facetious) MacAskill
Why Not Seed The Cups?
John Nic's piece about European Cups being a big fix got me thinking...
Shouldn't we seed the domestic cup competitions? The Premier League teams should be playing at home against minnows for at least the first few rounds - guaranteed. Not for the sake of the big boys, you understand - but as a vital financial lifeline to the smaller clubs. As a side effect, the big clubs could rest a few senior players and blood their youth, which normally includes the most promising British talent which would otherwise be starved of first-team experience. And the senior players they'd rest include almost the whole England team, so it'd benefit the national side. And, with more David-Goliath clashes, there would (according to the law of averages) be more cup upsets, which we all enjoy (when it happens to someone else).
Other than riling the dinosaurs who rail against any change to their beloved traditions (and who probably haven't got used to nets in the goals yet), am I missing a downside?
Steve Jones
Paul Little Wins A Prize
Who thinks Paul Little wins the prize for the most disturbing image conjured up on F365 this season with his reference to 'a giant bath of horse placenta cream'?
Urgh. Shiver.
I do.
Dessie, Belfast
Here's A Contender...
First read of Mediawatch today, and I wondered why Roy Hodgson's missis was talking about his bollocks. Feeling slightly disturbed I read the story above it and now I feel like I need to wear a cup in everyday life. Especially near my missus. Thanks 365 for ruining my sex life.
Gaz (scared of removing his own penis while vigorously wanking) MUFC
