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The Ref Was Wrong - But So Is The Law

Rob McNichol agrees that Nani should not have been sent off against Real Madrid, but also thinks Cuneyt Cakir was left with problems by the laws of the game...

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Comments 1 - 10 of (91)

big dave (Manchester United) says...

@citizen2026 - take yours off mate. You're fully entitled to your opinion about the red - you will find among pundits, ex-players and neutrals that you're in a (decent sized) minority but that's the way of football. It's a bit silly to say '100% it was a red card' - the amount of differing opinions around proves that to be untrue. Sadly the bull**it that you tag on the end '... a team that consistently benefits from officiating decisions' just makes you look like an idiot. And also makes me doubt the genuineness of the rest of your post (which previously looked quite intelligent and well-argued). It's a shame that forums often get hijacked by fantasists with a chip on their shoulder. Decision in United's favour? THEY GET ALL THE DECISIONS! Decision against United? GOOD! THEY USUALLY GET ALL THE DECISIONS! Decisions every week in favour of other EPL teams? . Very balanced mate.

Posted 1:38pm 14th March 2013

citizen2026 (Manchester City) says...

Take of your rose tinted specs and analyse this situation in the context it is in. Passions were high and the game was between two teams with significant world football credibility. 100% it was a red card. Regardless of weather Nani was looking at the ball or not, he made contact with the upper torso of Arbeloa. I'd attach visual aids if I could (of which I have many). SAF has been quoted numerous times praising officials, saying "the sending off was correct", "they are obligated to follow the letter of the law". If you use excessive force or a tackle is deemed to be dangerous, if the officials view it as aggressive in nature or the tackle is putting another players health in jeopardy, these are grounds for a booking. I admit it was harsh, but his boot was in Arbeloa's chest ffs. Nani should be aware of where the opposition was. Did he honestly think he was going to get to that ball without being contested? Furthermore it wasn't a rushed decision. The ref went and consulted his linesmen for another perspective or opinion, then made his decision. Hypothetical situation: If Ballotelli did the same thing to Carrick in a derby, the media, Utd players and fans would of walked him to the gallows. On a personal note it's nice to see some 'retribution' dished out to a team that consistently benefits from officiating decisions. Ommm Nomm Nommm Nomm .....Is that humble pie delicious or what Fergie?

Posted 2:44am 13th March 2013

Darraghmac (Tottenham Hotspur) says...

jon_bwfc is totally correct. w3554e is correct too, once he got his first wind-up post out of the way. And the answer to the 'why can't a goalkeeper be sent off for a punch at head-height' is very simple indeed- the goalkeeper is allowed to challenge with his hands at head-height. Nani is not allowed to challenge with a raised leg at chest-height. A fair-but-aggressive challenge from a goalkeeper that connects with an opponent is a lot more marginal of a call than a foot raised as high as Nani's that connects with an opponent.

Posted 12:36pm 12th March 2013

paulw66 (Chelsea) says...

Just occured to me that the headline makes no sense. Either the ref was wrong and the law is correct, or the ref was right and the law is wrong. @fishcake.....if you are searching for explanations, can you also try and find out why Rafael wasnt sent off and a penatly given for saving a header with his arm?

Posted 1:38pm 8th March 2013

fishcake (Manchester United) says...

@w3554e.....your really struggling here. The same rules apply mate, if what Nani did is considered 'endangering an opponent' FINE, the question is how can he then do nothing about a punch in the head and a high challenge from Arbeloa that made more contact? The evidence is clear and its fair to question it. Motivation is irrelevant, it was a mistake. I take it you aren't serious about why UEFA haven't done anything? They haven't done anything about racism either! Oh right so its alright for everyone else to whine about ref decisions....8 years and still Spurs fans moan about that mendes goal....but we're not ok the moan about this? Grow up mate. Mistakes happen, we arent claiming a conspiracy like some fans would, just asking for an explanation......yet no one can actually provide one,funny that!

Posted 8:32am 8th March 2013

ildiavolorosso (Manchester United) says...

@ohawuused2bagod - WTF have you been smoking man? Are you seriously comparing, let's be honest, an accident in a f****ing football match to murder.. no double murder!!?? Have you gone insane? That is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever heard. This isn't about life and death.. its just bloody football, no matter what Shankly said. So keeping this discussion about the football, my point was that while De Jong's kung-fu kick could easily have been construed as use of excessive force, as Cakir interpreted Nani's attempt to control the ball on Tuesday night, Webb decided to give De Jong another chance to calm down and continue playing in the biggest match in football. This also had the effect of keeping the match slightly more even, and avoided a boring Spanish procession. Webb cannot be faulted for the rest of the Dutch team's combative attitude and he struggled to keep it at 11 v 11 honestly. But De Jong's attitude did change considerably and he was a lot more level headed after that incident, which to me justified Webb's decision. You are free to disagree, but please use reasonable arguments. Nani's actions were almost canonical in comparison which in my opinion makes Cakir's decision as ridiculous as your analogy. As for crying like a little b***h about the red card, I seem to recall a lot of b****ing and moaning from gooners when RVP was sent off vs Barca a couple of years back for equally ridiculous reasons. Deep inside, we are all the same.

Posted 6:53am 8th March 2013

big dave (Manchester United) says...

w3554e - nothing to do with my agenda mate, a lot to do with yours. Your post was 'blah blah gloat that United lost blah blah usually they get the decisions'. Your next post however demonstrates that you do have some sensible opinions. I wasn't referring to Rafael when I mentioned handball - I was using it as an example of the limitations of the laws of the game that people (rightly) refer to in these situations. I also do not expect the laws to be changed for any one team. My point in a nutshell is that care must be taken when saying 'it says in the laws that.....' and 'the referee was just applying the law'. The handball rule (for example) says there has to be intent, but handballs are given where there is clearly no intent (as per my previous post). Intent is a conscious decision to reach for the ball with your hand and touch it. There is no other way to interpret 'intent'. However everyone involved with the game regularly says things like 'the ref got it right, his hand was in an unnatural position' or 'he could have got his arm out of the way, it's a penalty' meaning we're ignoring the need for 'intent' and therefore ignoring the law. The second part of my point is that similar to the handball/intent situation, the law may seem clear that intent is irrelevant in the case of Nani's offence, but in reality referees DO use intent as a way to judge whether a red card is warranted. Goalkeepers don't get sent off for accidentally punching people, and players don't get sent off for clashes of heads. Referees don't tend to send players off for accidents even if they do hurt someone (there are hundreds of examples every week in our leagues and in Europe). In even briefer terms, reading the wording of the law is fine, but it doesn't in all cases accurately characterise the way referees act or are expected to act, (handball rule given as example of this).

Posted 2:46pm 7th March 2013

w3554e (Tottenham Hotspur) says...

@fishcake - my argument can't unravel because i am not comparing one incident to another. The incident in question must be looked at in isolation, as the referee must view each incident on it's own merits, you comparing one incident to another is irrelevant. You are implying that the referee didn't apply the rules fairly....if so what was his motivation not to do so? What evidence have you got to back this up? And why are UEFA not reprimanding the referee? My first post on the subject merely pointed out that many a team has been robbed at Old Trafford, your problem is that this time it happened to be you!! Because opposing fans have the audacity to mention previous faux pas at Old Trafford, you trot out the usual stuff to finish your argument......Intelligent debate, i fear not!! Next please..

Posted 2:34pm 7th March 2013

fishcake (Manchester United) says...

@w3554e.....putting aside the fact that UEFA's own guidelines would actually class Nani's attempt to control the ball as 'reckless' and therefore only worthy of a yellow....your argument quickly unravels when asked why Arbeloa wasn't sent off for a worse but similar challenge and why its 'not dangerous' for the GK to punch Vidic in the head, but is for Nani to clip someones side? Trying to gloss over this HUGE hole in the debate by saying United want the rules re-written is nonsense, the rules should be applied fairly. We're merely pointing out that we were robbed. Opposing fans cant accept that so come out with the drivel you have. The hand ball rule is also VERY clear as are the guidelines on it...Rafa's was NEVER a handball according to the laws of the game...the majority of fans dont actually know what the laws are, by the way. Still it happened, the best team lost, we move on and go for a double....I dont see what its got to do with fans of other clubs to be honest, just looks like a load of bitters putting the boot into United getting knocked out of a cup their own teams cant qualify for.

Posted 1:41pm 7th March 2013

bernsteinforpm (Manchester City) says...

@Harry....I'm very much in the handball has to be intentional camp, but it's very unlikely that Rafael's handball would have been judged accidental in the modern game had it been seen. He jumped with his arms stretched across the predicable path of the ball, that is exactly the kind of scenario the admittedly stupid "unnatural position" interpretation is actually meant to be covering.

Posted 1:37pm 7th March 2013

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