It’s not just England; Europe has a problem with neo-hooliganism

If you have anything to say on any subject, mail us at theeditor@football365.com

 

It’s all about nationalism
I read Mark’s email this morning with sad recognition of what he discussed. I too have witnessed that sort of behaviour overseas during an international window.

Last year I went to Copenhagen on a rugby tour, and Denmark were playing at the same time. A large contingent of visiting fans were staying in the same hostel as us, and spent Friday night threatening us and proudly, drunkenly announcing that if Denmark beat them they would set fire to the city. They hated that we had an Argentinean and a Bulgarian in our team and were generally just aggressive, thuggish and intimidating to anyone of a different nationality.

They weren’t English though, they were Poles, and when a Christian Eriksen-inspired Denmark smashed Poland my rugby team and I headed to the other side of town to avoid the inevitable fallout (and there was a lot). And here’s the rub – Mark asks the question “are English fans getting worse”? I think all international fans are getting worse. Without wishing to be too much of an amateur sociologist, I think the strengthening of nationalism across Europe has actually led to an increase in hostility across the continent, and this happens most often with football because that’s the most regular occasion where large groups of (often uneducated etc) young men travel abroad. We just hear about the English fans most often because we’re, well, in England.
Tom, London

 

…’..what we saw in Amsterdam on Friday are the dying pains of an old way of life, an old way of thinking, and an old way of being.’

No John, I don’t believe it is the dying pains. This is the beginnings of neo-hooliganism (at least in England if not so aboard, where being an extreme fan is quite normal); a movement that is very much built on the disenfranchisement of the White Heterosexual Male (WHM). The picture used on F365’s homepage to promote John’s piece is telling. Not a single POC amongst the number of England fans that descended on Amsterdam with one intended goal: to wreak havoc on the locals and f*ck the consequences.

Football likes to believe that it operates in a bubble unaffected by the machinations of political and social discourse.

Absolute horsesh*t.

The world has been doing its best to move on from old ways of thinking, but as I wrote in a previous mail, the tensions that have seen the rise of populist nationalism and misplaced violent actions towards minority ethnic groups has not so much seeped into Football, but has reawakened The English Disease that has always been there, lying dormant. Those WHM who feel marginalised by society can find solace in the Football fraternity; a bosom of non-PC, non-liberal, spittle-flecked, violent expression. They aren’t judged at the ground among their own in the same way that society apparently judges them; they will never been thrown out of the fraternity for saying or doing the wrong thing either. Because there was never a moral code set by which they would follow. Other than to back your own no matter what.

The pull to forgo your own moral compass for the high of mob mentality is, to anyone that has strong connections to any form of community, intoxicating. It can suppress your ability to question the reasons or implications of the actions you take. Everyone has felt that pull at one time or another throughout their lifetime. There is the possibility for a root and branch educational opportunity here that will never be implemented of course. That societal ills, which undermine our well-being, are making their way to the terraces and beyond as the case was in Amsterdam is not new. Football needs to realise that it cannot be the harbour in which the more uncouth aspects of society are at best, widely accepted; at worst, celebrated and encouraged.

It’s more than just racism that needs kicking out.
James F, BCFC KRO

 

Actually, they are football fans
Another incident of English fans behaving disgracefully abroad, another round of the usual deflections from the English football public; They’re “so-called football fans”, they’re a “tiny minority”. They ARE football fans. They have bought tickets to a football game. They belong to the sport, own them. So what if they’re a tiny minority? Other countries don’t have this tiny minority. Just because they are in the minority does not excuse the majority. Bad behaviour exists on a scale, upon which violence sits at the very end. But what about shouting abuse at players? What about abusing other fans? What about giving players the finger when they take a corner? What about littering empty bottles all over city squares? What about chanting that the city you’re in is a shithole? Do you do these things? If you do, you cannot pretend to be shocked when a minority become violent. English football culture has a rotten attitude problem, and rather than deflecting by characterising violence as the maverick actions of a marginal minority, English fans need to look at violence as a position on a scale of shitty, disrespectful behaviour. Stop disowning these people, they’re a product of English football culture.
Hugh, Dublin

 

…A very interesting piece by John Nicholson on the England fans and their most recent incident in the limelight. He references the contrast with Scottish and Irish fans so from an Irish perspective, I thought I’d give some thoughts on why this might be the case.

When international tournaments come around, everyone loves the Irish, and although it’s slightly patronising and feeds into the ‘taking part and having the craic’ stereotype that has developed over the years, we’ve always enjoyed the attention and positive vibes that come our way. What’s not to love about the experience? Having experienced it first hand at Euro 2016, we congregate in massive groups on small squares and streets (often affecting city traffic), we drink heavily into the early hours and we sing songs passionately and loudly, many of which reflect pride in our country’s history and national identity.

Sound familiar?

So what’s the difference then? Why are we liked and the English not when we travel abroad? Well, in the main, we generally go to places in good spirits to have a good time and not physically assault anyone or destroy property. In fact, our fans have a wonderful unwritten self-policing policy in place, where I’ve see people who go too far (climbing traffic lights, jumping on cars) get instantly called out and collectively told to calm down. Ironically, they guy who climbed the traffic light had “Are you English in disguise” sang in his direction.

This doesn’t happen with the English, where people are afraid to be individual and shut down the idiots, or even step away from the madness. I’ve seen this first-hand at club games too. At the Euros, when I asked an English fan in Lille (who I genuinely had a nice conversation with), why they sing the German bombers song, he simply replied “because everyone does it”.

I also remember going on holiday to France and Spain as a kid and learning about the negative impression of the English. People on the continent can’t differentiate between my accent and the English one so automatically assume I’m English. It’s quite sad that I’ve noticed a definite shift in attitude towards me when I’ve clarified that I’m Irish. It’s not fair that English people in general are judged without being given a chance as most of the ones I’ve met have been friendly and engaging.

I’m not sure how the current culture can be improved but maybe more people within the group taking a stand and saying no would help a little bit. Either way, I’ll be watching with interest to see how they fare both on and off the field.
Conor, Drogheda

 

No, they are not football fans
Brilliant piece by Jonny Nic regarding the nature of En-ger-lund ‘fans’. Completely agree that these people are not going for the football, merely the chance to cause some trouble in a Brits abroad mentality. The whole piece into the mindset of these fans reminded me of the Tyler Dureden quote from Fightclub:

“I see in fight club England Fans the strongest and smartest men who’ve ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don’t need. We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”

Their inadequacy and impotence is what makes them so aggressive. These are the same people who voted Brexit to rebuild the Empire, who think that white privilege is a protected characteristic that needs saving, who get outraged at the opening of a mosque but tell you to stop being insensitive about their liberal use of racial slurs. These are the people who will lose their jobs to machines and blame it on the foreigners.

These same people also aren’t football fans. The reason I know is because they don’t attend home games as those games are never marred by the same trouble (and are often empty). A lot of these people are also banned from UK football grounds and the only way they can go to games is by going abroad. As Jonny said, I hope these people don’t get in a huge brawl that would injure many bystanders. What I DO hope is that any fans who do cause trouble – English, or otherwise – spend the rest of the tournament in a Russian prison.
Joe, Midlands

 

Think that fan behaviour is fine; try it in Russia
Just reading the comments section on the Johhny Nic article just confirms for me that the large portion of the English fans are now so far removed from hooliganism that there needs to be a short but sharp conversation around it, for the fans’ sakes.

The first comment makes me feel more correct than ever in my previous two mails on this topic, expressing confusion at the comparison between these English fans and the Russian fans who attacked English fans at Euro 2016.

It is not the comparison itself, in trying to compare degrees of severity.

It is the apparent total lack of understanding of why those Russian hooligans did what they did, to quote “going out to cause permanent damage to as anyone as they can”

Now the attacks were not on any one speaking English, be they man, women or child.

They tried very hard to target what they thought would be their opposites, English Lads, expecting to ‘have it’.

Little did they know that most of the men they would target were not hardened fighters or willing fighters at all.

But therein lies a stark warning, to better understand your rival/foe/world cup host in this case.

Poor jokes aside, the point is this, the Russian Hooligans will not be looking for a wet jacket to claim, they will be coming with the mentality of a football hooligan, to hurt as many opps as possible, as hard as possible.

Might be a good idea to actually avoid joining large groups of drunken, singing English lads this time around..
Manc in SA (Let us hope that the Russian authorities are on top of it all proactively, as best as they can be expected to be)

 

Engurland v England
I totally agree with Johnny Nich’s article on those thugs who decided to travel to Amsterdam at the same time as the England game. I hate the idea of other cities and countries thinking that’s what the English are like, and it annoys me that I somehow feel I should take some responsibility for these idiots and apologise on their behalf. Seeing people display the St George’s flag (whether actual flag or tattoo) makes me uncomfortable now. It’s because of the type of person who brandish the idea of nationalism, then immediately act shocked and offended when you insinuate they are really just a racist, the faux outrage that ‘you can’t be a proud Englishman anymore’ or support your country with the flag. Well I’m not proud of being English anymore thanks to these pr*cks and those in charge bungling the country. I feel sick looking at people trying to hide under a shroud of ‘patriotism’ and realising I want to do anything to not be associated with them.

In an effort to not be sucked into their pathetic distraction, having voiced my disgust I do want to quickly give my take on England the team. I did think the Holland game was quite boring and disjointed, but I’m not surprised or that worried to be honest. I mean it was pretty much a training game, and most people wouldn’t watch clubs training games (a lot of us on here would, but most of us are real football anoraks) because they are likely to be fairly dull. Southgate was trying out a different system and the players were trying to learn it in a competitive training game. I do think there are plenty of reasons to be cheerful though, some solid defenders with enough tactical nous and ability to use different formations and systems and some genuinely strong defenders. The Ox may sometimes get nostalgic for Arsenal and start playing like the previous player, but at Liverpool he has had some absolutely fantastic games too (I’m a city fan and he was awesome against us). The press and immediate look up to play forward/drive with the ball is such an important facet in modern football and when he looks up and sees Sterling, Rashford, Vardy and Kane there is definitely damage to be done.

While the ‘keeper position is a worry due to the uncertainty we could also look at it with the view of Pickford was a young uncertain ‘keeper playing for Sunderland and managed to shine. Sure, he has suffered from Everton’s manic season, but Southgate seems a far more calm force for the team than the Koeman Allardyce sandwich (eeeeww) which could really help. It may be a bit of a toss of a coin, but it doesn’t take a stretch for a bit of hopeful optimism and the coin land in England’s favour. Maybe it will be the making of him, and his pinpoint distribution will unleash the rapid forwards as well.

I’ve never rated Henderson, and I don’t think he will ever be good enough for where England and Liverpool want to be, but he played well on Friday and it’s not impossible to see him having a decent tournament. I do like that Henderson seems to have a lot of pride and passion as sportsman. I know that it something usually mocked here but that is where it is used instead of being an example and when chest thumping is used to distract us from what we’re really seeing. I think he is someone who in this team will take responsibility and I do think seeing some fire at some points can help.

I’m not saying that we’ll win it, and I don’t think anyone in or out of the camp thinks that or is aiming for that, but a reasonable calm guy in charge of England putting in some solid but not spectacular performances to get to the quarters? I’d take that and be fairly proud of it.
DBM (Until the celebrations of those England ‘Fans’ immediately makes me ashamed again) MCFC

 

Talking non-league…
That has to be the first mail I’ve ever actually enjoyed that were written by the raven!

As someone who has played in the lower leagues for a long time I’m always looking at league tables and fixtures. I’ve gradually gone down the leagues due to having kids and the legs going but I’m now playing in the Essex Olympian League. The standard of some of the teams is so strong and its made up of a lot of non-league players that just can’t commit to the travelling and leaving work early due to personal reasons.

Anyway back to the Olympian League. Have a look if you get a chance there has been a ridiculous amount of games called off recently and my team haven’t played for 10 weeks and me personally for four months!! I’ve only missed two games in that time. Crazy. Basically 13 teams in the league and anyone down to my team in eighth can still win the league. The fixtures are going to decide it though as there are now an extremely lot of mid-week games kicking off at 6.15! Largely impossible for a lot of players. Any way all to play for!!
Chaz (Essex)

 

…I am on an Arsenal sabbatical, after divorcing the club last summer when Wenger signed a new contract. Therefore, I have taken the opportunity to take in some lower league and non-league football, and to be frank, I am not sure I will go back to the Emirates. Take last Saturday. My eldest son follows Brackley Town as his second team and they had made it to the semi-final of the FA Trophy. As they were playing Wealdstone, which is only 45 minutes from us, five of us headed down to watch the second leg. Arriving early, we headed into town and were pleasantly surprised by a group of Wealdstone fans who invited us into their drinking establishment to swap stories and discuss the forthcoming game. (A very similar thing happened in Amsterdam on the Friday, so I understand….or not??).

Anyway, long and short is that Brackley won 2-0 and we are all going to have a day out at Wembley on Sunday May 20th. The beer and banter was excellent, the football was exciting if a little short on quality and after celebrating with the players, we were back in the pub by 5.30 to watch the England u21s. A very fine day all round.

It’s Easter this weekend and the fixtures have been split, so why not look at where your closest lower league game is being played on Good Friday and head on down, especially if you aren’t doing a game on Saturday. In the meantime, I might go down to Hemel Town tomorrow as they are only charging a fiver to get in. Then on Good Friday, I’m off to Dunstable FC for a tough game at home to Slough. Then its MK Dons on Monday with a big game at home to Blackburn.

I might watch Arsenal v Stoke on Sunday as its on telly…but I doubt it.
Tim Benson, Bedfordshire

 

Get in Gibraltar
Due to a flu-ridden week last week and a ton of work to catch up on, I’ve genuinely seen very little footy media over the weekend or this morning.

However I did find time in my lunch hour to peruse the morning mailbox and found no mention of what I think must be one of the more unexpected results of the weekend.

Yes – it was only a friendly – and no – I haven’t been able to find much coverage at all of the match in question – but can we all take a moment to offer hearty congratulations to Gibraltar who recorded a frankly incredible 1-0 win against Latvia yesterday. Latvia who are 131st in the current world rankings (Gibraltar are 206th out of 209). Latvia whose 5-0 thrashing of, yes, Gibraltar in March 2016 is their joint-record victory. Their goal was an 88th minute free kick by Notts County’s Liam Walker, apparently.

Make note of this day for it will come in handy in a pub quiz in about 6 months time, you mark my words.
Terry Hall, Switzerland

 

Beckham underrated? He was a Kardashian
Ballsy of Planetfootball to publish an article declaring the scientifically-objectively-proven most overrated footballer of the last three decades ‘underappreciated’.

Nobody anywhere in the world has any fond memories of him actually playing football in open play, and he wasn’t even Merse style top top top level at set pieces.

The man was a Kardashian, and fair play to him, he did it all at a time when the Kardashian family was still known for legal prowess, but no point pretending his reputation is anything but hugely inflated.
Aaron, London

 

Boring football tale
I tidied my bedroom once and thought I had lost my Arsenal membership card that’s needed to get into the stadium.

Turns out I hadn’t lost it all – it was lying in between two DVDs.

Boy – did I feel silly!
Graham Simons, Gooner, Norf London

 

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