Mails: Ranking Premier League teams against expectation
Some great season reaction, so keep it coming. Send your emails to theeditor@football365.com…
To start…
So, it’s 3:30 in the morning and as morning breaks over Manchester, I’m heading to bed in DC.
Whilst, in a purely geographical sense, I’m far removed from this tragedy, it hits closer to home than many others for me. The MEN is an arena I’ve spent many an enjoyable evening at and, until I moved over to the States last year, I’d spent the last 6 years living practically on its doorstep, walking past it almost daily on my way home from work and the like. Thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected, especially the families of those that have lost their lives. There is never a “good” time for something like this to happen, but at a concert full of young people enjoying music, something that, like football, inherently binds us all together, seems especially galling.
One thing I know is that Manchester will NOT be cowed by this, if it is proven to be a terrorist act as we fear, and nor will it allow poisonous minds who want to use fear mongering to drive a wedge between us.
Manchester is a city built on the backs of ordinary, working people uniting to be stronger. We saw it during the Industrial Revolution, when worker’s unions and cooperatives formed in and around the city. We saw it at Peterloo where the city suffered tragedy at the hands of those who would deny ordinary people richly needed parliamentary reform. We saw it during the American Civil War when cotton workers voted to uphold their embargo on Southern cotton despite the economic hardships they were suffering, to support the Union cause, an act that Lincoln wrote was one of “sublime heroism”. We saw it during the Second World War, when Manchester was bombed by the Nazis, Old Trafford was put out of commission and City opened Maine Road to their neighbours for them to play there. We saw it during the 90s when the IRA bombed the city.
And, finally, we saw it last night when, for me, the enduring memories of the night will NOT be the terror that some maniac hoped to create, but post after post, tweet after tweet and report after report of ordinary Mancunians of ALL races, colours, religions and creeds coming together to do what they do best. Support each other and endure. It’s what Manchester does. It’s what Manchester will ALWAYS do.
Ian, AFC
…Waking up to the news of the horrific events in Manchester last night certainly puts football into perspective. No CL, losing a cup final, relegation… it’s just a game.
What is fantastic to hear is stories of ordinary people helping be that welcoming strangers into their homes, or offering free taxi rides.
Stay strong Manchester.
Andrew, BRFC
…It’s days like this remind me how insignificant the result of a football match really is.
Marxist8
Ranking teams for their season
I did this last year and it went down so well with Spurs fans that I have decided to give it another go. I realise that the FA Cup final is on Saturday and the real quiz is Wednesday but I have a fear someone else might steal my thunder so I am jumping the gun. So, here it is… my completely uneducated end of season rankings (before anyone points it out, I know the league table does this but it doesn’t factor in the cups or relative expectations…)
1. Chelsea. Has to be. 30 wins in the league is a stunning effort. Tenth to Champions is Leicester-esque. They have the chance to add to the double on Saturday and they frankly deserve it. They beat Utd in the quarters and Spurs in the semis. They won thirteen games in a row at one point. Superb, genuinely superb.
2. Bournemouth. Scored more goals in the Premier League than Manchester United. Finished ninth in the top flight in just the seventh season in their history outside the bottom two tiers. I think we have got a little blasé about Bournemouth being in the Prem. It is outrageous they are there, even more that they could finish in the top half of the richest league in the world.
3. Spurs. Top scorers (86), best defence (26), golden boot (Kane) and yet seven points adrift of Chelsea. Spurs fans (and staff) must be scratching their heads at how they are not champions. Sparkling football with some real beatings given out. However, out of both European pots at the first hurdle, lost to Liverpool in the League Cup and shipped four in the FA Cup semi to Chelsea. Spurs have exceeded everyone’s expectations this season but no home ground next term might make it very, very difficult to replicate.
4. Liverpool. Pre-season the BBC asked 33 pundits for their top four- nine of them had Liverpool in fourth, three in third and one in second. 20 of them had no top four for Klopp. Liverpool have a waver thin squad (no-one else in the Premier League would give Lucas that many games) but the lack of Europe helped. Semis of the League Cup, bombed out the FA Cup. Top of the top six mini-league. Over achieved in the League, under in the cups. The anti-Utd if you will.
5. Leicester City. Quarter finals of the Champions League. The actual Champions League. Not even disgraced there. Ended up 12th in the Premier League. The actual Premier League. Forget the Champions League hoopla, if you had offered a Leicester fan 12th in the Premier League a few years ago they would have bitten your hand off.
6. Southampton. Sold another shed load of players and still finished eighth and reached a cup final. They were superb in that cup final as well. Odd then to finish the season chanting ‘you don’t know what you are doing’ at their manager as he clearly does.
7. Everton. Bit of a no-mans-land for the Toffees. Briefly overtook Utd when they had played three games more but never likely to reach the top six. 15 points clear of 8th. Played some really good football but lost a lot of games and choked the derbies. Nothing in the Cups.
8. Manchester City. Last sixteen of the Champions League and should have got through, semis of the FA and should have got through. Won their first six games in the league and should of finished higher. When they click they look unstoppable but when they don’t they look dreadful. The defence is shaky to say the least despite having the world’s most expensive defender in it. A manager with a different name might not have made it to next season.
9. Arsenal. In the Cup Final! More points than last season! Lost 9 games in the league… Beaten 10-2 in Europe… Conceded 44 goals in the League… Glass half full or half empty?
10. West Brom. Finished tenth. Another season of this and Baggies fans will go full-on Charlton Athletic.
11. Manchester United. Pre-season the BBC asked 33 pundits for their top four- 31 of them had Man Utd in the top four. 12 of them had Man Utd as Champions. It has been quoted before but it is worth repeating that if Utd had conceded zero goals all season they still would have a goal difference six worse than Spurs. Yes, to the League Cup (trophies are the point of football) and a muted yes to the Europa (given the opposition). If they win the Europa the season is saved and chalked up to experience, if they don’t it is genuinely dreadful.
12. West Ham. New stadium no-one really wanted. New players no-one really wanted and sold the one player they couldn’t afford to lose. Lanzini played a lot of passes. No real stand out performers. If that proves to be a transition season it might not be too bad.
13. Swansea City. Well done Paul Clement. To pull that particular cat out of the bag after it had been royally rammed in their by Guidolin and Bradley was a sterling effort.
14. Crystal Palace. They have a hell of a team you know. Lots and lots of real quality. Battered Arsenal, mugged Chelsea, turned over Liverpool. Abject under Pardew but showed their ability under Big Sam (with some tasty January additions). Should never have been in the relegation scrap with that squad but oddly their players were never snakes…
15. Hull City. The Marco Silva Hull would be higher but they were dross up to that point. Pre-season training started with a handful of players and a manager walk out. They took too long to make a decision on Phelan (the decision to appoint and the decision to dismiss). Did play some lovely football under Silva (the 2-0 over Liverpool a case in point) but it wasn’t enough in the end.
16. Stoke City. You have got to start asking what the point of Stoke is. 13th place in the league and never a sniff of doing anything more dramatic. Nothing in the cups. Peter Crouch is a good news story but he should not be leading the line for an ambitious Premier League side in 2017. Stagnant.
17. Burnley. Stayed up! A-whoop-di-do. Embarrassing away from home. Employed Joey Barton despite him being sacked by Rangers and under serious investigation by the FA. Stodgy football. No-one, and I mean no-one, would watch a league of Burnleys.
18. Watford. Quick- off the top of your head name seven Watford players. Got to 40 points and did one.
19. Middlesborough. Was it just me or did they just seem to give up around February? Couldn’t buy a goal but then again, didn’t even seem to try. I get the sense that they came up and planned to just bank the money to reinforce and be in better shape next time they come up.
20. Sunderland. Pretty much a joke team (albeit one that humped Big Sam’s Palace 0-4). Some of the team sheets were incredible (let’s get the old gang back together again!). The manager was clueless. Without Defoe and Pickford it could have been inhumane.
Micki Attridge
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How did teams do against ‘norm’ for that position?
I sometimes think about how unfair the league system can be, at least I think it is unfair to judge managers on their league positions. They should be judged on points gained. In the winners section this morning Southampton were lauded for finishing 8th. I would argue that Southampton were poor in only gaining 45 points but were lucky that the league played out so they finished 8th.
I managed to get a hold of the average/median points per league position in the Premier League. By comparing that data with the league table you can judge how the teams did in “real terms”.
1st Chelsea 93 pts – median 89 pts – deserved champions
2nd Tottenham 86 pts – median 83 pts – would have been champions 10 times.
3rd Man City 78 pts – median 75 pts – would have been champions twice
4th Liverpool 76 pts – median 68,5 pts – well deserved 4th and would have been champions in 96/97
5th Arsenal 75 pts – median 64 pts – unlucky to lose out on 4th, would also have won the title in 96/97.
6th Man Utd 69 pts – median 61 – should be in CL with this tally.
7th Everton 61 pts – median 56 pts
8th Southampton 46 pts – median 52,5 – Should be much lower
9th Bournemouth 46 pts – median 52 pts – all the teams around the middle should be lower
10th WBA 45 pts – median 49,5 pts
11th West Ham 45 pts – median 47 pts
12th Leicester 44 pts – median 46 pts
13th Stoke 44 pts – median 44 pts – on track
14th Crystal Palace 41 pts – median 43 pts
15th Swansea 41 pts – median 41,5 pts
16th Burnley 40 pts – median 39
17th Watford 40 pts – median 37,5
18th Hull City 34 pts – median 35
19th Middlesbrough 28 pts – median 32,5
20th Sunderland 24 pts – median 26,5
The conclusion is really what everyone knew already. The best teams were so good this year that you had to do better than usual to get a place in the top four. That dominance of the best teams left fewer points for the other teams so it was easier to get into the top half. From Stoke and downwards things are looking normal.
I’m not suggesting that every team that gets more than 89 points should be crowned champions and every team under 35 points gets relegated (although the latter idea sounds fun). But this should be the parameter we use to judge a managers performance, at least rather than a league position which is mostly based on luck.
HB (lies, damned lies and statistics) Iceland
Antoine Griezmann can’t do maths
The real loser in this Griezmann saga is maths. 6/10 (60%) chance of joining Man United but a 7/10 (70%) chance of staying at Atletico?
Maybe they should be educated before or during the time they earn more than the average yearly salary in a week.
Cian LFC (150% not jealous)
More on positional cliches
I know this isn’t exactly what Barry was doing yesterday afternoon, but I’m going to have a crack at some football collocations. I love these. Goalkeepers? Commanding or eccentric. Defenders can be solid, bruising (but only centre-halves) or no-nonsense, whereas full-backs are rampaging, versatile or, on the odd, glorious occasion, swashbuckling.
Centre midfield gives us tough-tackling, all-action, volatile, combative and, oddly, diminutive. Wingers are tricky, silky, nippy and flamboyant, while centre-forwards are mobile, old-fashioned, predatory or clinical. They often finish with aplomb.
Surprisingly, all positions apart from goalkeeper can be cultured. This seems to mean being able to play a range of passes, retain possession, stay on your feet, work (but seemingly effortlessly), be loyal, and not have a massive social-media presence (if you’re foreign); or successfully complete one 50-yard pass a game and not be a complete tool the entire time (if you’re a Brit).
David (crap touch, even for a big man) Szmidt, Brno, Czech Rep
…Barry (Cultured ambipedal), Armagh. You may want to consider ‘good touch for a big man’ in one of your forward positions.
Also, I think it would be hard to suggest that David Beckham didn’t have a cultured right foot.
Tim H
…Nice list of monikers for certain positions from Barry, Armagh. I expect you’ll get a few of these, but I’d like to add some more cliches to the mix:
– towering keeper
– ball-playing defender (shouldn’t all footballers be ‘ball-playing’?)
– mercurial playmaker (sometimes known as a midfield maverick)
– burly forward
– predatory striker (sometimes known as a lethal finisher)
I guess you could have a towering striker or burly centre half, but I think they fit best as described above. I haven’t played Football Manager for years, but I’m pretty sure these lazy tags from print journalists found their way into player descriptions on there eventually.
The one that always gets me is “(insert team)’s Mr Reliable.” What a stinker.
Ohio Joe (Spurs), London
Sunderland: Bad at scoring goals
Just reading through losers!
I had the need to stop and type this, Sunderland have only scored 29 all season, the number matched by the golden boot player.
Firstly condolences to Sunderland fans, it’s been a tough couple of years with many great escapes and at least some fight, what you’ve had to go through this year must have been something else, going down with fight is admirable, going down attacking is entertaining but producing the opposite of both and paying to watch it must be torture.
Also has this ever happened before in the PL? A player finishing the season equal or ahead of goals then a whole club?
Dennis
…And then
Just got to Middlesbrough, question answered!
Dennis
Whatever happened to the FA Cup final song?
With the season over our attention switches to the FA cup final. Well I’m not actually that psyched up for it as the deflation from the premier league season and the looming Europa league campaign has most of us drained.
And this lack of anticipation leads me to ask the following question. what ever happened to the FA cup final song? The Anfield Rap, Come on you Reds, Blue day and Hot Stuff (The Arsenal) I’m sure are all mega hits we can remember.
So now I suggest we bring it back with Arsenal’s Wenger based version of Should I Stay Or Should I Go by The Clash.
Frankie AFC (no Kos = no chance)