Mails: Why do people hate Chelsea so much?
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Pogba isn’t adaptable
I read Toby Sprigings’ article on Pogba with some interest, and it’s hard to argue with the ‘let’s wait and see’ tone running throughout. Remember how Firmino was a huge waste of money this time last year? There can be little doubt that Pogba is a very good footballer. However, it may just be that he lacks one of the great intangible qualities: adaptability.
There is an argument, at least in my mind, that adaptability is the single greatest quality a footballer can have. That is, at least, if you assume a certain level of technical competence. Some players have a knack of fitting into any system with any group of players; Rafa Benitez would often refer to ‘game intelligence,’ and while it’s along those lines, I think there’s a little more to it than that. It’s what enabled Zidane to move from Juventus to Madrid and still perform like a superstar, then go and play for France and dominate games. There have been plenty of examples of the converse, the most famous in this country in recent times being Lampard and Gerrard’s apparent incompatibility.
It’s time for a bad car analogy I’m afraid. By all accounts, Hamilton and Alonso are capable of driving any Formula One car to its limit. Whereas there are drivers like Vettel and Button who, when the car is set up just right, can be untouchable.
Pogba was immensely successful in a Juventus side that swept away all before it, playing on the left of a midfield diamond with one of the greatest playmakers in the history of the game just behind him. Which just so happens to be a pretty rare setup. Let’s not kid ourselves though that Pogba doesn’t have the skill set to perform in any midfield role; the guy can do everything to a very high standard. But does he have the mental side to complement his prodigious physical skill set? To paraphrase Arrigo Sacchi, is he a very good player, or merely a very good footballer?
To once again echo Toby, time will tell, and quite frankly, United have bigger problems than what Pogba may or may not be doing.
Andy, London
Woodward not the disaster
I’m sorry but I have to disagree with Toby S a bit but here goes
The first manager was chosen based on the advice of a true legend and it was hoped he would be affored time from all angles performances and the belief that he would not if given a decade turn things around led to his dismissal.
By that time the available options had reduced hence the need for LVG and when it seemed his dour football would drive everyone to madness the best option was Jose.It was difficult to expect more experimenting with an untried manager.For me Jose has done well in terms of style o play if not results.\some of the options you may believe where better had no guarantees .Pep was never going to show up,Conte maybe we missed out but hardly screams long term solution he hasn’t been anywhere more than 3 years either.And a left field option like Favre has only become interesting this year
I also don’t buy the whole gist about the players being all examples of short termism Ibra and scweinsteiger aside utd have bought rather young players the problem has been getting them to play regularly.Articles like
Utd’s biggest problem is that there is currently a perfect storm of every other contender being actually quite good and everyone still expects us to dominate.Articles like the one you just wrote increase the pressure Utd are better off taking their lumps ignoring everyone else and finding a new path organically.
Give the current manager at least another two years then you can come back to me with suggestions on what’s killing us
Timi
MUFC
More love for Toby
A great piece by Toby Sprigings (haven’t come across the name before, more please) on Woodward being a large part of the real problem at United. It also ties in nicely with a recent mail from Naz about Mourinho struggling to adapt his style of football to match the so called “United way” which probably doesn’t really exist.
A while ago, I wrote a mail complaining about how a number of other premier league clubs seemed to have a “feel good” atmosphere around them, having better, more likeable managers and ultimately looking as though they were progressing.
Toby’s piece summed this feeling up much better than I could (thank God, this has been bugging me for a while). To get through this period of change, United need to bring in people who can actually change the club rather than living in the past. Mourinho and van Gaal are classic examples of looking backward, managers who were seen as a “safe bet” who would bring success back to the club. But the success United experienced under Ferguson was built over decades with the club putting it’s faith in a “rough diamond”. We need to be looking that far ahead in all aspects of the club, including, but not limited to, the choice of manager. The results and the place in the league table don’t bother me nearly as much as the feeling that we aren’t making any progress.
Oh, and congratulations to Mr Storey, I told you my lone vote wouldn’t matter. We should all take a moment to commiserate Mr Macintosh, his loss at the awards coming so soon after losing his job (#pray4iain).
Dave, MUFC, Manchester
I just wanted to send a quick note applauding the article written by Toby. Fantastic piece well written and something I’ve been saying to my mates for ages.
Cheers
Jimmy
Trophy v top four
Reading Matt Stead’s article this morning made me realise that this regular discussion always misses important context. Winning a cup or qualifying for the Champions League has different significance to each club.
The suggestion that finishing fourth in the league is shallow compared to a real piece of Silverware misses the point for some clubs. To a club that isn’t a regular ECL competitor, the chance of Messi, Neymar & Suarez coming to play at your home ground along with trips to some of the most iconic stadia in Europe is arguably a more tangible reward than a giant shiny thing to put in the cabinet. A question to Spurs fans here; what was more memorable? the ECL run against Inter, AC Milan & Real in 2010/11 or winning the League Cup in 2008?
For a serial ECL competitor the prestige of these games surely fades after a few years of not getting close to winning it, so for a team like Arsenal there comes a time when winning a trophy becomes more important than that fourth place finish.
Where the real outrage lies is when a club plays a weakened team in the ECL in order to have a better chance of qualifying again the next season. I think if you polled fans on whether you would rather give the ECL your best shot, or rest players in preparation for a tough league match the result would be conclusive. There is glory to be had in a valiant ECL run, it’s not all about attracting players and boosting profits, not for the fans anyway.
Simon, London
Everyone debating 4th place vs Trophy etc. seems to be split based on the clubs history. I also love people wading in suggesting how other fans should feel, which seems a bit silly to me.
I loved the FA Cups wins, don’t get me wrong. Apart from anything else it got an annoying monkey of our back which has been looming over us for years. But I went to Arsenal vs Barcelona, last years at the Emirates. When the music plays and the best players in the world walk out onto that pitch, it sends tingles down your spine. You know you are watching your team play against the best in the world, taking on the greatest tournament challenge and visiting some of the best stadiums in the world.
You are invited to the top table in world football. Trophies are good, but an EFL Trophy does not match the sheer thrill of being part of the European Elite. This is even more important as the Premier League and is no longer the elite of European football.
Rob A (I would have said differently the day after beating Hull…) AFC
I’m not sure why Matt Stead has raised this old chestnut again, but since he did here’s my humble contribution to the debate. Most arguments for the cups always seems to miss the key point of those in favour of top 4/avoiding relegation – this argues for accepting partial success now, as it gives the club a higher chance of what they consider to be (more) significant success later down the line.
You could argue its a version of the famous marshmallow test where toddlers were offered one marshmallow now, or two marshmallows fifteen minutes later. It’s been shown that those who successfully control their short-term impulses in this test are more successful throughout their lives; in theory the same could apply to clubs (without the guaranteed later success, of course). To rephrase the question, would you accept a lesser trophy now and a lower likelihood of major success in the next 2/3 years, or accept no trophies now and a higher likelihood of major success in the medium term? Without knowing the exact probabilities it’s a difficult one to answer, and will likely even differ between fans of the same club.
For me and my club (Arsenal) I favour doing everything with the ultimate goals of Premier League and Champions League success in mind; if that means prioritising top 4 in the short-term, so be it. For a club battling relegation, it depends on what their long-term goals are – now that Leicester have recalibrated everyone’s expectations, would fans of struggling clubs this year wish their clubs to prioritise avoiding relegation this year, in the distant hope of “doing a Leicester” next year? Similarly, I’d be interested to hear from Leicester fans – being completely honest, if someone offered you relegation and winning the FA cup at the beginning of the 14/15 season, would you have accepted it then?
Colm, London
Sign them, Jurgen
I’ve been thinking about Liverpool and their rather bonkers display on Sunday, the team look great going forward but need something else at the back to tighten things up, don’t worry though Jurgen as I have solved this for you.
Ask for a “warchest” and throw the lot at Van Dijk and Joe Hart in January, Hart is 29 and reaching his prime as a keeper, he has his faults but Karius could learn a lot from him. Van Dijk is a no brainer, possibly the best centre back in the league at the moment though I believe he recently signed a new deal so would be quite a big fee.
With these two added in I think they could win the title this year.
On a slightly related note, as a Coventry City fan I wish we could spend some cash on player. At the moment we are scraping about for £1.25 for a “Bagettues for Less” lunch, while everyone around is buying Subway, some are even going for double meat, the dirtbags.
Sam
Go Joemez
Across all of the mailbox, and many podcasts, the Liverpool fan base are now obsessed with bringing in a proven centre back. This is despite the existence of Klavan, who Klopp bought, and the fact that Joe Gomez is now fit and gaining match fitness and Klopp has already praised him. That gives us four centre backs plus Sakho who is apparently for sale for crimes against something other. Then we have the academy, which Klopp seems keen on integrating, by recently including a defender, Alexander-Arnold.
Also, we usually have a good go at the congested Christmas period, then have a crappy January. This year will be no different, and adding some random guy to tell Lovren what to do won’t help.
We might have money, but I reckon our owners quite like winning the Net Spend League™ too. Don’t get your hopes up.
Hamish, LFC, London
Why the Chelsea hate?
I realise that asking this question may be akin to opening Pandora’s box but this morning’s mail where Chelsea were referred to as “utter scum” was the breaking point.
Seriously, what is up with the F365 audience and Chelsea? Why such actual hate and bitterness towards them? The bile I’ve seen poured towards this club from opposing fans (normally Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United and Tottenham) usually comes in the forms of soundbites like “no class”, “no history”, “chavs”, some slur about the football they play and general insults without context.
Although it’s not an ideal sample size the Chelsea fans I’ve met tend to be the same as those from any other; some are knowledgeable and patient, others one eyed and demanding. You don’t see a particularly large proportion of their fanbase bombarding radio phone ins and internet message boards after every win or defeat to gloat or whine. There’s no more instances of trouble involving their fans than other sides, yet the entire fanbase seems to be held to these actions rather than being recognised as the idiotic actions of the minority.
They were consistently winning trophies and finishing in the top six for years before Abramovich came calling, and are the most successful English side in Europe over the last 20 years and have an enormous global fanbase yet are still referred to as a small club. Behaviour of players such as John Terry or Diego Costa on and off the pitch seem to be held as the norm at this club, when such “characters” (I’m not here to get into a slanging match) at opposing sides are at best being clever and at worst merely an individual. Nor have they had a higher proportion of such divisive characters in their team than any other side.
Now I recognise that there are a few differences between them and the history boys. Prior to 1996 they do have a modest record of success. They had a notorious history of hooliganism before my birth (1985 history fans). The way in which Abramovich acquired his fortune and the increased financial muscle Chelsea had after his buy out has left a bad taste. I’m not asking for those, merely why this club seems to be held to a different standard and attract so much more vitriol than others when in this modern age when most clubs have no defined playing style or ingrained personality.
I’ll sign off by saying that I’m not a fan of Chelsea or any other Premier League side, merely confused as to why one team can attract proportionately more negativity than others without being particularly different.
Kevin, Nottingham
Come on feel the Moyes
Sunderland deservedly defeated Champions Leicester at the Stadium of Light on Saturday afternoon to make it 3 wins out of 4 for David Moyes side. With their next game against relegation rivals and struggling Swansea City Moyes will fancy his sides chances of escaping the relegation zone come next Saturday evening.
This latest victory was well deserved as they outfought and outplayed a poor Leicester side for the vast majority of the game , highlighting many aspects of the Black Cats play that Moyes can be rightly happy about.
Moyes front 3 of Defoe , Anichebe and Watmore look a real handful to play against. With all 3 providing very different threats for the opposition to deal with. Defoe looks as sharp as ever in and around the box and has lost none of his finishing ability , consistently coming up with big goals for his side. Anichebe looks re-born and playing to a level that few thought he was capable of since his MOTM performances in the momentum building victory over Bournemouth. His strength and ability to hold up the ball give Sunderland a excellent platform from which to build their attacks. Watmore is technically limited but he brings a real energy and a fantastic work rate to the side that makes him a real nusiance for the opposition.
At the other end Moyes defence still looks a little shaky , as any defence regulary featuring Papy Djilobodji would. Luckily for Moyes whenever his back line is breached the opposing team have the excellent Jordan Pickford to beat , a feat most are discovering is far from straight forward. The young goalkeeper is in fantastic form and is almost competing against himself in the save of the season stakes. Having a keeper in such fine form breeds confidence throughout the team and Moyes will be delighted with the young keepers form.
If the Black Cats can continue to pick up points between now and Xmas and are then able to subsequently strengthen their defence is January they will have a real chance of staying up , which will represent something of a redemption for Moyes considering the fact that he and Sunderland looked doomed only a few weeks ago.
Pedro Luxembourg
Backing Dawson
I’m sorry but I’m not having that. Craig Dawson is a regular 7 out of 10 player for the Albion. He is great defensively and as we saw last season will contribute with a few goals and assists. His predecessor in the right back position was flying wing back Billy Jones. Billy Jones of one goal and one assist in two years. The same Billy Jones that cannot get a game for Sunderland. A right back is first and foremost a defender. Yes occasionally Craig will be done for speed or skill by a tricky winger but then so will most full backs. The reason that players like Clyne or Walker don’t get done like that is because they are usually out of position.
So what if he came from Rochdale. Height is an advantage. His team are 7th in the Premier League and have scored more goals than Manchester United. There is no denying the Albion have a poor squad but they are more than a sum of their parts. And Craig Dawson is integral to that. He would be in my England team. As to would Ryan Shawcross and Andy Carroll. There is more than one way to skin a cat and as high profile managers such as Pep and Klopp are finding out, their philosophies are not invincible in an ultra-competitive Premier League.
Nyom was one of the best players on the pitch against Watford and his a right back/centre half playing at left back. It is time to get off Pulis’s back and give the man the respect he deserves. There is no other manager in the world that could have the Albion in 7th place in December. His inventive use of players is ground breaking.
Would an England managed by Pulis have lost to Iceland. I seriously doubt it. Your site doesn’t like Tony very much but it has badly chosen the wrong stick to beat him with on this occasion.
Ben the Baggie (Suitably outraged, however then I remember Villa fans coming back from Leeds on Saturday, to see themselves 15th in the Championship only to see a Premier League table with the baggies in 6th. Not bad for a good little club)
I know, I know, I come to this site for the light hearted delivery of proper football news and opinions, but it still stung me to see the dig at West Brom in your “10 worst players in the Top Half” piece, and then to target my dear Craig Dawson too, it hurt like betrayal.
I’m not going to argue with the point I assume you were getting at, technically, our squad should be awful, and I’ve been saying for years that on paper, we do have one of the worst squads you could imagine in the Premier League, but it just works.
Despite what the statistics show you, this season Pulis’ football hasn’t been as painful to watch as it has been since he initially took over. He’s made the purchases that he wanted, and it shows now that we do have a clear system, it just doesn’t involve a lot of passing and moving. We have a big, strong back line, perfect for attacking and defending set pieces, and Ben Foster behind them means they all have confidence in each other.
Nyom was signed and is currently playing Left Back, but he’s fast, fit, and perfect for attacking on the left wing when Brunt cuts inside. Meanwhile, we have Dawson at Right Back, a natural Centre Back so not the most mobile, but he doesn’t have to be as he has Matty Phillips in front of him who stays wide a lot more, meaning he can form a back 3 with Yacob in front if Nyom goes forward, maintaining the shape.
With what essentially becomes a very experiences midfield 3 of Morrison, Brunt and Fletcher while this is happening, with the wide men servicing what appears to be a constantly improving Rondon, it’s actually not as surprising as it seems that we’ve had this run of form. Besides, we’ve got tough games in December, so we targeted our recent fixtures knowing we’d be grinding out a few games this month.
I never thought I’d say this, but watching Pulis’ game plan from the stands is actually quite interesting, because now that he has it ingrained in the players, and has the players he wants (and McClean is the most Pulis winger you’ll ever see), you can see exactly how it all plays out with a perfect rhythm by design as the game goes on.
So, yeah, the players are a bit sh*t, I can’t argue with that, but the team itself is actually not half bad.
Joe (WBAFC)
Stick and twist, Leicester
While procrastinating from my work, I read Dan’s letter in this mornings mailbox about Claudio getting the sack.
I understand that it is a confusing situation, because how can you sack him after what he has done? It would the the ruthless business side of football. But that said, football is now a business, and relegation would be bad for business. So should they stick or twist?
They do neither. They should go for a slightly more bizarre third option; both! They should sack Claudio from the Premier League. Before you scroll down, let me put it this way: there has been no shortage of people writing in to suggest that Martinez, Chunky and Bilic all benefited from the defensive organisation left behind by their predecessors, and I believe someone (cannot remember who) suggested having two coaches, one for attack and one for defense.
Keep Claudio on for the Champions League, as he clearly can d wonders as the underdog, and their Champions League form is just shy of perfect. But bring in Big Sam (or someone of the same ilk, would Pulis jump ship for a chance to be a CL assistant manager?) to revitalize the PL campaign, and there you have it, problem sorted!
Am I talking absolute sh*te or is there any other manger duos out there?
Neill, (Klopp and Mourinho just for the sheer sitcom element alone), Ireland
Congrats, Daniel
Others will say it better, but bravo Daniel Storey.
Peter G, Pennsylvania, USA (Does this make Matt Stead “The Mansfield Storey”?)
Daniel Storey’s award feels very personal to me. Keep it up Sir! More grease to your elbows.
Posova(Thank God I voted) Andrew
Handsome beast too aren’t ya? Scrub up nicely.
Dan
I’m sure you’ll receive plenty of congratulations today and deservedly so. This website has long been a favourite of mine (easily my most visited) and I have introduced friends and frequent mailbox contributors as a result. Over the years F365 has boasted – in my opinion- the most funny, insightful and interesting pieces which only heighten my love of football. The Portrait of an Icon series has been excellent. Congratulations to Daniel Storey and the whole team for your achievement last night.
Phil (MUFC/LOFC – yes, that Phil who has been to 9/9 LOFC home losses this year for you avid readers)
“Daniel heroically emerged the victor at the awards in London on Monday evening.”
Well done Mr Storey for making history and being the first online only winner!
Now please get a move on with releasing that Portrait of an Icon book so we can all buy it!
Adonis Stevenson, AFC
Congratulations to Daniel Storey on his FSF Writer of the Year Award!
Hope this helps F365 to continue to write, analyse and evaluate independently on football matters, whilst allowing it to grow further as an organisation.
Now it is time to step up on Social media. Too many idiots out there undeservedly having millions of followers.
Gooner