Who else could West Ham get other than Moyes?

Date published: Tuesday 7th November 2017 2:49

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If not Moyes, then who?
Maybe before he left Preston all those years ago he was seen as a progressive manager. The style of football was fairly decent at Preston. It became quite defensive at Everton and he got them finishing in the top 10 pretty much every season. They won nothing and frankly never looked like winning anything. He went to United and we all know what happened. He went to Real Sociedad and failed. He also took Sunderland down.

On what basis then, bearing in mind his last 3 jobs, have the board stumped for this one. Is he cheap? I suspect not (he was earning at least £4m a year at Everton and he won’t be asking for less now). Is he a modern young manager? No. Has he won anything? No. Not even with Man Utd. Has he spent wisely? Not recently – if you look at his Man Utd and Sunderland transfers. Is he a safe pair of hands? Well he threatens women with them so probably not.

Once again the board who sold our ground (where has the money gone?!?) has proved that they don’t sack a manager. Only sacked Zola, Grant, Allardyce and Bilice in 8 years. That’s some going. We also have a Lady who claims repeatedly to fight for the rights of women yet agrees to appoint a man fined £30,000 for threatening to hit one. He’ll claim it was “bantz”. But listen to sinister tone of his voice when he says it (believing no-one is going to hear it). It doesn’t sound like it’s the first time he’s said something like that to me. Of course there’s a first time for everything.

Any West Ham fan thinking a real quality manager would take us on is deluded. Why would the likes of Ancellotti or Hiddink want to work for the Dildo Brothers and Lady Brady? Why would they want to work at a club where one of the chairmen’s sons posts crap on twitter about the squad, tactics and transfers and helps to run the Ladies team. Why would they work for a club where Sulliavan has a say in who the club signs? Why would they join a club where Sullivan royally screws up the signing of the key target of the manager and then has a hissy fit at the non-selling club and threatens to sue him. They are pathetic bunch over-charging fans, with the worst PA system in any stadium, lying to fans about transfer targets, re-branding the badge, allowing season ticket holders to add 2 friends to their allocation preventing club members on the waiting list any chance of a season ticket and then seeing loads of seats empty as these non-fans don’t turn up every week, if at all.

If you keep repeating your failures then how can you expect success? Is Moyes going to inspire the players who are apparently so unfit that they blame the manager for their lack of professional application and desire to play for the small fortune they pocket every week? Is Andy Carroll going to actually play three games in a row ever or will he continue to criticise the fans for not supporting the route one football we have to play so he can fit into the team?

I may be wrong about Moyes. I hope so. I just don’t see it.
Andy.

 

…Moyes to West Ham, West Ham fans not keen… who did they want?  I see Marco Silva linked, and is at Watford and doing well, however it has to be a decade since a premier league manager left one premier league club for another mid season.

Can anyone tell me when it was and who it was?

Must be an agreement in place between clubs not to poach managers mid season.
Thom, Newport

…I’d prepared a massive rant about the Sam Allardyce interview with the two sexists in Qatar and the absolute shock of Charlie Adam proclaiming that David Moyes is a fantastic appointment for West Ham.  Then I decided to just calm down and see if I could piece together some evidence of how they’re wrong.

So With the use of Wikipedia and a lunch time I prepared a list of British managers who seem to always get chances and are linked with every job going.  It is interesting to point out that they have all been in management for more than 20 years each so to round it up roughly (give or take a year out after a sacking); combined they have had 160 Seasons of management. Amongst the clubs managed are Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspurs, Everton, Newcastle United, Wolfsburg, so not terrible clubs.

List of managers:
1.       Sam Allardyce*
2.       Alan Pardew*
3.       Harry Rednkapp*
4.       Steve Bruce
5.       Steve McClaren
6.       Tony Pulis
7.       David Moyes

List of Trophies:
Football League Trophy: 1984, 2010
UEFA Interto Cup: 1999
League Cup: 2004
FA Cup: 2003
Eredivise: 2010
FA Community Sheild: 2013

People may disagree but this I feel is evidence enough that these men are not good enough to be given this many chances. My argument is for football being about winning things and being entertained and these managers don’t do an awful lot of either. Also they also get stamped with knowing the league in the championship; however None of them have ever won it, this is a common misconception
John Lavery (there is definitely dark forces at work keeping these lads in work)

…One of the many things I like about Football365 is their unerring ability to pick a picture of someone to make them look a bit incompetent or mental or generally rubbish. Focusing in on England’s most successful club side every Souness story must be accompanied with him holding up two fingers in the dugout during his disasterous tenure at the helm of us. In the ‘present’ Sakho holding a Koala, Moreno heading the ball with the side of his head in the EL final, Mr Veneers flashing his erm…veneers. You get the picture?

So I am somewhat disappointed you’re not using the snap of the Moyesiah staring bug eyed as he ruined United. Ruined them to the extent that £500M+ later and they still haven’t fixed the damage he did. It makes me feel rather fuzzy inside to think that Fergie pushed forward the man who would undo his years of toil.

More use of the that ‘photo, please!?
Gregory Whitehead, LFC
(all you had to do was wait for the morning Mails – MC)

 

Boring Prem
I felt a similar sort of empathy reading Rusty (build a bonfire!) Gray, WBA FC’s email on yesterday’s Mailbox, and id like to offer my suggestion as to why! – Less the ’Top 6’ of both Manchester teams, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs, everybody else in the league plays and are set up, to try and not lose.

My team, Southampton, are a typical (albeit not doing particularly f*cking well at it) example, it seems as if Pellegrino’s entire tactics revolve around not conceding and trying to ‘nick’ a win rather than actually trying to play to win.

I’ve watched all the other teams either live or on the box this year and I’ve seen nothing that tells me otherwise. Whilst I full understand the money on offer from just being in the Premier League I can’t understand how teams can view this as a long term business plan, attendances will drop as the crowd turns on its team, the payers and managers will get booed (see St Marys this weekend after the abject performance put in by our lot) and eventually the revenue has to drop, surely?!

This is the same up and down the country, boring football, players who are ‘safe’ rather than exciting, it’s no wonder that people are beginning to lose interest. Whatever happened to the “it’s better to burn out than fade away” mentality? As I said, I get it, for some, boring sideways and backwards football, scrapping a 0-0 draw and just ‘being’ might very well make for a decent season, but, I would suggest, that for the majority, Premier League football for the supporters of teams without the financial clout of the bigger teams is only going to get worse.
IK

 

Give it to Giggsy
Right, I’ve had enough of Mourinho and his sh*t. I was sceptical from day one and this is exactly why.

We all know Mourinho is a winner, no doubt about that. Its the way he goes about winning which worried me and its clear why. Does any United fan actually think United and Mourinho are a good match? I certainly dont. I would rather have LVG. Yes, I said it. He gave us Rashford and Tuanzebe and things were looking up after winning the FA cup. What has Mourinho done in terms of youth? Nothing really.
Ok, when we are winning I can just about accept Mourinho but when we start losing and drawing matches the way we do then it becomes very difficult. The style of play, the lack of chemistry in the team, even Mou’s post match interviews..its all just shit. Our problems have become more visible since the game at Anfield. Its almost as if all the players weren’t happy to return after their international break.
Besides perhaps creating a winning mentality, Mourinho doesnt offer much else. He is trying to play that Chelsea way at United with Lukaku instead of Drogba. And Lukaku…well he has been shocking in the past 6 games. My dog can control that ball better. I’ve had it man. Why is Lukaku ‘untouchable’ Jose? We paid £80m for him and he isnt performing. Why cant we express our opinion when we pay to watch him do f*ck all? Why cant we play Rashford up top? I just dont get it.
The fact that Fellaini was our Man of the Match at Chelsea says it all. He was on the pitch for 15 minutes. Herrera, Blind, Mata, Fellaini and Lingard are just not good enough. I like Lingard and Blind but the rest dont offer any quality. We have some average players at the club, an average manager and I am glad some of us are waking up. Mourinho even turns good players into average players by not allowing them to express themselves. Rashford and Martial are pasted on that left wing, When Mata plays he plays him on the right and Mikhi…well, God knows what happened to him. It looks like he has lost interest in football altogether. Yet, Mourinho still starts him every week.  The funny thing is that a change of formation doesnt even work because he has created this negative anti-football philosophy. His first aim is to stop the threat of the opposition. Why cant we just play our game? Focus on scoring instead of eliminating their threat? No No, we must not concede. Typical Jose. I’ve had enough of this negative shit and its starting to affect the players too. Its obvious.
Then he wonders why Old Trafford is quiet. He is now starting to roll out his bullsh*t by talking about the fans, injuries, PSG, etc etc. Yes, some of us agree that we miss Pogba but the issue is bigger than that. Its this negative style of play. We were banging in 4 goals during our first 3 games but we were pretty average for most of those games as well. Most of those goals were scored in the last 15 minutes.
I will be surprised if he survives this season because we have seen what happened at Chelsea. I can see it happening here. Mourinho and United are not a match and never will be. I am actually embarrassed to have Mourinho as our manager.  Get Poch or give Giggsy a proper chance.
Remon, MUFC

The game that ruined Jose
I’m probably a bit late to this argument, but so many outlets banging on about how Jose has scored 1 goal away from home in the last 10 games against the “big-6”, stretching back to his 2nd season in his 2nd spell with Chelsea, and yet none of them seem to reference the game that preceded this run.

That game was – New Years day 2015, Spurs v Chelsea at White Hart Lane. Chelsea came into the game top of the league having (handily for analysis) played 19 games, with 14 wins, 3, draws, 1 defeat, GD +27 (41F, 14A). Spurs won 5-3 in a highly entertaining game – and after that, Jose changed his approach. Previously, Chelsea had been (relatively) open and attacking, but after that he went back to his default pragmatism – the last 19 games (including the 5-3) saw 12 wins, 5 draws and 2 defeats, GD+14 (32F, 18A).

This game was quite probably the cause – his defence was overrun and that bothered him more than the defeat. He closed out the season with only one away game against the rest of the “big-6” – 0-0 at Arsenal, but most importantly, Chelsea didn’t lose again until the title had been secured.
Sam, London

 

Pessimistic about United
For Man Utd, this season is starting to look too similar to last season and with the amount spent on players during Jose’s tenure I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect more. I think Jose is walking a fine line with his attitude and methods at the moment and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it backfire and for his usual tantrums to begin his inevitable downward spiral and bad tempered exit which is never his fault. Anyone else think that his reported negotiations for an improved contract is just part of this?

Firstly, I’ll give him some credit, he’s won a couple of trophies, made Old Trafford a much harder place to come and take any points and he’s brought in some quality players. But how much money needs to be spent to see the team improve to what Jose thinks is necessary? Do we need a full brand spanking new first 11 on the pitch or maybe a brand new 22 to make sure everything is covered. How much will that cost? And will it guarantee success? I very much doubt it…

My main reservation about Jose is that he is not getting players to perform on the pitch. They don’t seem to be going into games with the mentality that they are better than the opposition and that they are going to win whatever happens in the game. They go in with a conservative approach of making sure they don’t get beaten which sends the wrong message to the opposition. Then when they need to go forwards they seem to be doing so with one hand on reverse gear should they need to go back to defend. They are not enjoying the way of playing. If they were getting the results from parking the bus I think they might buy into Jose’s way but the top six teams play against opposition who regularly park the bus every game so it doesn’t seem like a good strategy to me? Parking the bus is admitting the opposition are better than you and that you’re coming for a draw, again, it sends the wrong message. Jose thinks he’s doing rope a dope with this plan but it’s not working any more.

Tactically on the pitch Man Utd are naive and predictable. We set up often as a 3-4-3 on paper but in reality it is 5-4-1 with the wingbacks doing more defending, the wide forward players slotting into midfield and effectively then 1 upfront. If you even consider Matic as covering the central defence then it is almost 6-3-1 formation. There is no fluidity to the play or flexibility to the system so it is easy for teams to play against. The best teams have always had players who interchange positions, movement off the ball and multiple ways of scoring from multiple positions but Utd are just playing a more expensively put together version of what I heard P Nev (sorry for that already) describe as Everton’s stand still football as the reason they are so shit.

Talking about some individual players, Luke Shaw was an awesome prospect before he got his broken leg and he’s been tossed aside. Maybe he could have done more but surely the club and manager should want him to succeed? Mkhitaryan is turning into a Angel Di Maria 2.0 – clearly the lad has bags of talent but he just doesn’t seem to want to be there or maybe the style of play just doesn’t suit him. Ok, so we’re missing Pogba but the season has a lot of games and a team with eyes on the title needs to be able to cope without their best players.

Yes, I am a bitter fan who is upset about our good start to the season having gone off the boil but I think much of that fault is the manager. Yes, we had an easier start, yes, we’ve lost arguably our best player and yes we’ve faced a tougher run of games of late (and not forgetting that some of our 4-0, 5-0 “drubbings” earlier in the season we were 1-0 up after about 75 mins). However, a good manager would have managed these circumstances and rode the wave of good form. Utd played a Liverpool team there for the taking while we were on form and parked the bus (as did Liverpool to some degree), we played negatively against a Spurs side who almost never beat us and luckily came away with 3 points and we then played Chelsea who were not on form and just let them dictate matters, another opportunity went begging and we deservedly lost without a fight. If we’d gone for all those teams from the first whistle we might be in a much better position now in terms of points, momentum and belief.

I feel the upcoming run of games is very likely to shape our season. We have 4 very winnable games that we should be able to get some sort of form back and fluidity to our game followed by games against Arsenal and City. If we don’t put together a decent run now then we’ll park the bus against Arsenal and City and come out the other side much worse off and well out of the league. However, if we can win the next 4 games and score some goals and get back to the football of earlier in the season….then….I…..guess……we’ll still park the bus for those 2 games.

Oh bugger, we’ll be well and truly out of the running for the league by mid December and focus on cups or 4th placed trophy or just have to listen to Jose whining…
Jon, Joburg (Don’t really care if this gets printed, I needed to vent)

 

Ta-ra, Sanchez and Ozil
After watching another game were both of this so called superstars (Ozil and Sanchez), doing what they do best, i cant wait for the end of their contract.

I’ve seen Sanchez being selfish and losing position, but against City, he was just worse than ever, on the other side, Ozil falling on every chance he get.

Many Arsenal fans will disagree with me on this but, i am looking forward to the day they live, be it on a free or we get little money for them in January, i just want them gone.
Lwazi, Cape Town

 

Swiss ready to roll
Delighted to see you pick out N.Ireland v Switzerland as the Big Midweek game to watch this week. As holder of a freshly printed Swiss passport and an eternal pessimist, I can tell you that from the Swiss side there is definite trepidation ahead of the tie, with question marks hanging over several key players.

At left back, Ricardo Rodriguez was missing for Milan at the weekend with a calf injury “as a precaution” and it isn’t clear whether he will be fit to play or not. His usual understudy for the national side, Francois Moubandje has an ankle injury – meaning that we may get to see aging Basel right back Michael Lang lining up on the left side of defence on Thursday. Johan Djourou is out with a knee injury meaning an untested centre-half partnership of the generally solid Schär alongside either Leo Lacroix (no caps), Nico Elvedi (1 cap from May 2016 in a defeat to Belgium) or Manuel Akanji (1 cap from June 2017, 90 minutes and a clean sheet… against Faroe Islands). In midfield, Valon Behrami (who is the real engine of this side) remains injured meaning Remo Freuler is once again likely to deputise – but will he perform as he did against Hungary (wonderful) or as he did against Portugal (woeful)? Finally up front, the star talent Breel Embolo has thus far failed to win his place back in the Schalke side since his return from injury, and looked well off the pace when brought on as a sub in both of the final two group matches.

Overall the feeling is that Switzerland should still be able to make their quality tell over two legs and there is a feeling that having the second leg in Basel perhaps gives a slight advantage – tickets for the 2nd leg sold out in under 2 hours, unprecedented in recent years – but that will all depend on a good performance in Belfast as one thing Switzerland has struggled to do in recent years is to break down a packed defence (that match I mentioned against the Faroe Islands ended 2-0 but was frustrating for the lack of a telling final ball to cut through the defensive unit.)

My guess at the line up for Thursday would be Sommer; Lichtsteiner, Schär, Akanji, Rodriguez (unless injured, in which case Lang); Freuler, Xhaka; Mehmedi, Dzemaili, Shaqiri; Seferovic – expect to see Denis Zakaria and Breel Embolo brought on should the game be close at 75 minutes, and Fabian Frei should the Swiss be ahead and want to bolster the middle of the park.

As an aside, in a survey this morning undertaken by the prominent free newspaper 20 Minuten, asking whether Switzerland would win or lose the playoff, 21% of respondents declined to choose but instead answered that “Northern Ireland has a beautiful landscape”. I’m guessing that this is the Swiss equivalent of “1% said Frank Lampard”.
Terry Hall, nervous in Switzerland

 

Same old England
Jake Livermore chosen for England ahead of Jack Wilshere. Wow. If you ever wanted an example of why England will never win a major tournament, there it is.

The funny thing is that at grass roots level changes are being made which value technique and skill ahead of size and power – the recent U17 and U20 victories show that – but how long before that mentality cascades up to the full National team?
Adonis (at least he wont get injured) Stevenson, AFC

 

Apathetic about Arsenal
I think I speak for most Arsenal fans when I say that we feel apathetic about the team right now. The board has let a mediocre personality permeate down through the management and into the team and mostly to the fans as well. We can’t get rid of Stan unless we all boycott all home games but I don’t see that happening as we are (as mentioned) apathetic fans, mostly. And, if we don’t go there’ll be plenty of London tourists happy to go along, which would defeat the object.

We can no longer attract the kind of players we ought to (see Mbappe, Lemar) and so all we can hope is that we attract a manager that can build us up from within (like Wenger used to – and Pochetino does). Therefore all that leaves me to do is to dream about what happens next for us, especially as I already feel as if this season is over for us.

I believe there are two possible scenarios to replacing Wenger, and thank God Moyes is no longer one of them (thanks, Everton). Carlo Ancelotti is one person who could step in and rebuild but with the lack of funds and him only really being a short term solution I believe there is a better option.

I’d like to see us grooming (forgive the term) David Wagner for the job. He looks the business to me and even shares a surname with our current boss (I’m dyslexic, let me off). He knows how to organise a team from the back and is not afraid of playing football. He is the type of intelligent manager who I think would suit us and is more controlled than Eddie Howe. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Eddie Howe step up and do well for us but something tells me he could be the type of manager who will struggle with the pressure this job would put on him. Maybe one day though!

In the meantime I’ll just go back to cruising through the season hoping that something interesting will happen for us one day which doesn’t involve us getting battered by any of the top four (or six or ten) teams.
JazGooner (I seem to remember once backing Moyes for Arsenal. I may therefore have got this very wrong)

 

…After another pathetic weekend by Arsenal, followed by an international break that enables us to REALLY wallow in self-pity and woe is me-isms, I got to thinking as to why so many football managers and players go on and on, past their sell by date. I am going to discuss this through the prism of Wenger. Why would a man, who has won the league, done something almost impossible in going a season unbeaten, choose to give up his remaining life to be abused on the sidelines? He must know that he isn’t really at the cutting edge anymore. No 68 year old is. He must know that young managers such as Poch are drilling their teams, demanding more from them. The fire is at those clubs. The will is at other clubs. Our governance has no pressure to apply because mediocrity is all they ever wanted. You look at Arsenal and is it any wonder we remind you of the Don Quixote we have in charge. Railing at windmills while everyone else leaves us in their dust.

The only argument I can think is that he hasn’t won the Champions League, and when people talk of the great managers, you could fairly argue that a lack of Champions League precludes you from the top tier of managers. Wenger believes in his ego so much that he would happily squander any good will to try and do it. And when he fails (and he will at Arsenal) , it will consume him. He’s made over £100 million from our club in his tenure. He doesn’t need the money. He just wants the glory. Not even for the club, but for himself. If he had the clubs best interest at heart, he would have walked 4 years ago. He didn’t, so any implication that he, or the board, are doing anything but lining their pockets is ridiculous. When this team truly implodes, and it is coming (or is already here), Wenger will continue to blame everyone but himself or his players. The lack of accountability at the club is staggering, and the only common denominator in all this stagnation and misery is Wenger. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You play the same type of players, in the same league, for over a decade and change NOTHING, and you wonder why you’ve become an anachronism.

Until Arsenal fans find a way to support the team, while starving these parasites of money, expect the same ground hog day. We need an effective boycott.
John Matrix AFC

 

Ref abuse
Absolutely agree with Daniel Storey on the referee ‘blame game’ by Wenger after their Man City defeat. No amount of being nice to kids and old ladies from now on will ever make me respect him fully again if he comes out with such drivel after a match. It is just unnecessary and puts even more pressure on the officials.

As Jon Cardy says, it is a thankless task. Years ago I was helping a mate manage a local under 10s team in my gap year. I really enjoyed coaching them and I often found myself reffing a few of the games because, well, there just weren’t enough qualified refs to filter down to that level (wonder why that is?!).

I enjoyed reffing the games, it kept the grey matter flowing and it was fun being on the pitch watching the kids run around trying their best to be mini-Owens and Beckhams.

But it soon soured. My mate, one of my closest friends at the time bear in mind, was ‘managing’ from the touch line. One particular game he kept protesting every decision I made against our team, despite my very best efforts to ref fairly and objectively. After half a match of this I stopped the game and went over to him and told him to cool his beans, as this isnt how he should behave. I just received a surly ‘oh get on with it’ response. Bear in mind there were 22 impressionable young minds watching this exchange, none of whom had moaned about a single decision I had made up to that point and i just remember despairing for the human race, let alone the game of football. The guy just had no understanding of how his actions had an effect on those around him, just like Wenger with his inane and petty comments.
Rob (despairing for humanity since 1999), Leicester

 

Work on, Rafa
Great piece on Moyes’ stats.

It begs the question; Who will be the first foreign manager to manage 4 premier league clubs?

My money is on Benitez (as long as his stint at Chelsea counts)
Dom

 

Seething Scot
This is just a personal opinion, and other Scotland fans may feel differently about this, but I really don’t want Malky Mackay in charge of our national team.

The very nature of international football is to be an ambassador for one’s country, and the SFA have to realise what this (hopefully interim) appointment says to the world about Scotland.
I personally will feel quite uncomfortable about supporting a national side whose FA thinks it’s ok to hire the types of individuals who hold the views that Mr Mackay has expressed. I don’t doubt that he has ability as a coach, but I believe we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than that.

On that basis I’m keeping my fingers crossed that we receive a couple of hidings and the SFA look elsewhere for a permanent appointment.

A disillusioned man, Edinburgh.

 

Grudge matches
Taking Mr Storey’s advice in Big Midweek I proceeded to have a quick look (couldn’t quite manage 30mins) at the footballing rivalries wiki page.

I found it quite interesting to discover there had only ever been 15 rivalries between players with, unsurprisingly, Roy Keane and Luis Suarez appearing twice.
On top of that, seemingly, Wayne Bridge has forgiven JT for his, ahem, questionable activities. Georgio Chiellini is also the forgiving type, handing out am olive branch for the old Suarez nashers incident (other bitees do not make the list). However, Evra would appear to have held a grudge for Luis’ other behavioural issues, as has Neymar with the chap who injured him at 2014 World Cup. Andy Cole and Teddy Sherringham are unwilling to reconcile all these years later too.
Anyway, complete nonsense aside, once I saw this list of all the (15) player rivalries in the history of world football I was delighted to see Mauro Icardi and Maxi Lopez on the list. If you thought JT was bad, this was on another level. Friends for years, played together for a while, international teammates. Next thing, Icardi is slinking off with Lopez’s good lady, moving in with her, denying access to the kids and getting his new step kids names tatooed on his arm. Lopez, understandably annoyed responded to Icardi’s offer of a handshake the next time they were on a pitch together by grabbing his crotch and shaking it in a rather intimidating fashion. One of the better footballing rivalries out there. Oddly, this context isn’t provided on Wiki, I only found out by happenstance at the weekend!
There must be other good examples out there of actual player rivalries? What have the mailbox got for us?
Alex, (…it is international week after all), Ayr

Pride of the nation
You guys don’t normally get a lot wrong, but I am pretty sure the best English player this season is Peter Crouch. No one’s achievements are even close to being as tall.
Regards,
A Reasonable LFC Fan (Crouchie>Ronaldo)

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