Who’s the better boss – Koeman or Guardiola?

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Pep and Mourinho getting an easy ride
Winners and Losers
is always a key part of my Monday and when Liverpool make it (into the top half obviously) it always gives a pleasing weekend a warm afterglow.

This isn’t a mail to say Liverpool deserve to be winners (they don’t) but I think Mourinho deserves to be a loser and I think Pep got a pretty easy ride.

Starting with Mourinho – this was a full-strength United team, on a great run of form playing their biggest rivals.

Liverpool had four hugely important players out (thanks FIFA you d*cks) of the starting line-up and were looking on the ropes. Mourinho not being able to galvanise his players in this situation has to again raise questions about whether he’s lost the aura that was responsible for his earlier successes.

On a night in which Liverpool fielded an 18-year-old youth product, it must also have been galling for United fans to see Rooney and Fellani lurch off the bench instead of Rashford.

All in all, a big missed opportunity.

As for Pep, I don’t buy that part of the problem is the squad he inherited. The guy blew a ton of money over the summer on a new keeper, an attacking midfielder he didn’t need, a central midfielder who regularly averages about 15 games a season, another attacking midfielder/ striker he didn’t need and £50mill on John Stones (which is so so very funny). He also has access to this wonderful youth set-up we hear so much about at City.

So the fact that he’s getting pumped 4-0 by Everton is very much down to him and the decisions he’s been making since he joined City.
Adam, LFC, Liverpool

 

Pep deserves a kicking, actually
Sorry, but I have to take issue with JN’s article on Pep. Attributing the criticism he’s getting to racism or xenophobia only plays into the hands of the ‘you can’t say anything these days’ and the ‘here we go again, playing the racist card!’ brigades and, I think, spectacularly misses the point that the criticism seems entirely justified at present. I seem to remember the very British Moyes also getting a kicking when his Man Utd team were struggling in the league, in fact I’d say Pep is getting off lightly in comparison.

Obviously there are those who are loving it because they think it proves something about Jonny Foreigner not liking it up ‘im, but let’s not allow that to be conflated with genuine criticism which isn’t coloured with xenophobic bias. Besides, it’s not like Pep doesn’t have a sizable following on these shores and abroad who deify him and will defend him to the hilt both above and below the line regardless of performance. For the record I’m loving it. I always thought he was a bit of a pompous arsehole and I always hated the fact that extreme diving, feigning injury and OTT theatrics seem to be an integral part of his plan to never let the opposition have the ball (you can see this creeping in at City too).

It seems to me that he rocked up here engorged on his own self-importance and neglected to properly identify what he needed to be successful in this league. He spunked a f***ing shed-load of cash on Sane, Jesus and Bravo but are they what City really needed at that moment? Either he didn’t know what the Premier League was about (which is borderline criminal given the fact that he knew he was coming here six months before he actually started) or he didn’t care and thought he was above it. Playing full backs who aren’t even good enough to be full backs for a team with City’s aspirations in central defence and central midfield, prioritising a ‘keeper who can pass 20 yards over one who can save a shot on goal, not ‘coaching the tackles’ – you don’t have to be Pep Guardiola to figure out that if you want to win the Premier League then these aren’t very good ideas.

It all smacks of a massive amount of hubris and arrogance, reinforced by his bizzare interviews where he seems to be genuinely upset and angry about the fact that the style in the PL is different to what he’s used to. Snarky comments about long balls and fouls on the ‘keeper aren’t going to win him many friends, are they? Every manager that’s ever managed in the PL (foreign and domestic) has had to deal with the same issues but only Pep seems to be complaining about them on a weekly basis with such gusto.
If he didn’t like the style and didn’t want to adapt then why did he take the job? Maybe he thought his coaching and management would be good enough to overcome the difference in style and tempo, but that obviously isn’t the case at the moment and if he wants to avoid fair criticism he should probably get his finger out and do something about it instead of trying the same thing every week and then sulking when it doesn’t work.

Without getting into whether it’s better or worse than any other league, it certainly is different and he’s not handling it well at the moment.

Quick word on Burnley…another home win and we are now sitting pretty in tenth! What a season! I fully expect we’ll slide a few places because of the grueling upcoming away schedule but if you had told me in August that we would be 10th after 21 games I would have had you hung as a witch. We’re not safe yet but I feel it would take a rather large turnaround in the form of the bottom four or five teams for us to properly end up in the thick of it.
Ashley, Burnley

 

…As tempted as I am to believe that the anger and vitriol directed at Pep is xenophobic, I really think it has more to do with:

(1) His more abrasive personality.

(2) People feeling vindicated that he was incorrectly put up on too much of a pedestal when he was winning with Barcelona and Bayern (amazing teams with or without Pep) and…

(3) His average performance as manager at Man City given the amount of money they’ve spent.

Conte has arrived as a new, foreign manager and I haven’t noticed any major negative commentary about him. There’s no shortage of xenophobia in football but jumping the gun is incredibly counter productive in the long term.
Jay B, CFC

 

…Let me start with some context.

I voted for Brexit. I did this because the one thing I do know about, is the threat faced by countries who have less stringent border controls. I couldn’t make an assessment on the Economy so I based my vote on what I know. I did not vote for Brexit because I am stupid or because I am racist.

I don’t like Graham Norton. I don’t like Will Smith or Samuel L Jackson or Richard Blackwood. This is because I find them irritating. It is not because I am homophobic or racist.

I am a Chelsea fan. This is not because I am a right-wing extremist and it does not mean I condone racism.

I say these things in light of John Nicholson’s article on Guardiola. I don’t like Guardiola. I don’t like him because I think he has led a charmed life as a manager – he has managed teams where all the pieces of the jigsaw have been in place and he has built a reputation as the best manager in the world on the back of that. I also think he gets an easy ride from much of the press. I definitely think his interview strop was just plain rude. I think he is stubborn and I think he seems completely incapable of accepting that any of his team’s issues might just be down to his inflexibility. I do not think any of these things because he is Spanish.

Now of course comments like those heard from Merson and Mills this week are idiotic. Yes of course they should be challenged. But let’s not avoid criticising Guardiola for replacing a good goalkeeper with one who looks considerably worse. That has nothing to do with nationality, it’s just plain to see. Let’s also not gloss over the fact that Guardiola is finding managing in this league quite challenging. This could well be because it’s tougher and because Manchester City doesn’t have the monopoly on success that Barcelona and Bayern had while he was there. It is okay to revel a little in Pep ‘being found out’ or struggling in a pond where there are equally big fish without that being grist to the mill of the xenophobes.

I think F365 is in danger of being blinded by its own agenda now. Have we really reached a point where we don’t want a high-profile manager to be called out on his faults because it might give credence to some ill-conceived xenophobic rubbish that some idiot pundits came out with? Can’t you trust your readers to have the sense to make football-based judgements without pushing the PFM/xenophobic agenda? Can’t you let me enjoy the Schadenfreude of watching somebody I think has been overrated fall on his face a bit?
Ted Maul, Chelsea
(I really enjoy this site (even if you did take the transfer blog away). Please don’t turn it into The Guardian)

 

Everton 4-0 Man City – 16 Conclusions
1. From the moment Chelsea started looking imperious in a 3-4-3, I thought it would immediately sweep through the Premier League as other managers tried to recreate it. It has taken a while but with Tottenham, Everton, West Ham, Hull, Man City, Leicester, Stoke, Bournemouth and Watford trying it at points throughout the season, it is slowly happening.

When done correctly, it feels imperious. Three centre-backs to deal with any counter-attacks, increasingly athletic fullbacks seemingly born to perform the role, midfielders enjoying increased protection and passing options around them and three forwards with freedom. It’s just perfect.

2. Man City definitely need to do some business this winter. With Gundogan apparently dead, Fernando being Fernando and Fernandinho trying his best to break some red card record, additions in midfield should really be a priority. Zabeleta is never the answer; unless the question is “Who’s that hopeless bald man running around hopelessly in the middle of the park?”

3. I have never been on the Guardiola is a fraud bandwagon but his decisions today were quite baffling. I watch a fair amount of Bundesliga and one thing you could never accuse him of were playing players in a position that they were ill-suited to and hindered the team. With a midfield low on numbers, surely a back three with Silva dropping next to Toure would have been a better decision.

Another place where Guardiola messed up on was subs. Until the 79th minute, Man City were only two goals down and the game was far from beyond them. With players like Sane and Navas on the bench he decided to sit back and do nothing.

4. Koeman on the other hand managed the game excellently. With Everton in a good position but under pressure, Schneiderlin and McCarthy coming on was exactly what Everton needed.

3-4-3 seems to be the way to go for them now. Coleman and Baines are simply made for it and it even gave Barkley the freedom he craves. Despite Everton playing really deep, Lukaku wasn’t that isolated and had passing options when he won the ball.

Everton look to be going somewhere and a more settled summer transfer window might be perfect for Koeman. It will be sad if Lukaku left at a time like this.

5. I don’t want to get into the whole Premier League vs La Liga debate but where else would you get a Top six or seven as strong and as close as here. Every game they play is incredibly important and almost any loss of points among them guarantees a re-shuffle of the table. Some are complaining that they have become too strong and that there are fewer upsets, but as long as the quality of football is top notch, I don’t see a problem.

In La Liga, you can count six huge games between the big three. In the Bundesliga there are really only two but in the Premier League that number rises to 30 among the top six and that is without counting the likes of Everton. We are blessed.

We might be poor in Europe but no other league matches quality and competition like we do.

6. Man City are not winning the title. This is definitely not the bravest of claims but I think it is fair to remove them from the title equation. Every team in the top six has flaws, but none like Man City. A terrible goalkeeper coupled with a liability of a defence is never a good combination but neither their midfield or attack is good enough to make up for it.

Costa’s antics has given the rest of the top six hope and I hope that this drags out for a few weeks at the very least just to close the gap they have created.

7. Among the discussions around Bravo’s credentials as a goalkeeper, I think one line of argument has been ignored. Bravo’s sometimes unnecessary risk taking and nervousness on the ball may be tolerated by Guardiola as it allows him to play how he wants, but to what ends. A goalkeepers main job is to keep the ball out of the net and from what I’ve seen, he’s not very good at it.

Lukaku did very well with his first goal; shooting across goal is finishing 101, but surely a better goalkeeper is putting a foot on that rather than diving. Second goal is very similar to both Willian’s and Vardy’s as well as many others I’ve surely forgotten. He always gives forwards an easy shot across goal. Kudos to Davies on his goal but Bravo has to palm that away while the last goal is just embarrassing.

8. Tom Davies. What a player. Over the last few years we have seen a rise in the number of tall, athletic, skilful, strong and generally well rounded box-to-box midfielders.

He was excellent again and is almost undroppable on current form. His passing is excellent, he is tidy on the ball, is confident, hardworking and a great runner on the ball.

Very presumptuous on my part but already has a higher ceiling than Barkley in my opinion.

9-16 I realise how much I dislike extremely long mails, so I’ll cut it here.

Just want to say thank you to Everton for making the entire league happy. I think its fair to say that as Man City don’t really have any fans.
Yeabsra A Ali, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia

 

Who are the greatest coaches?
Ancelotti is the best coach around for me, because he’s demonstrated an ability to tweak systems and style according to which players he has. He took Chelsea and made them so expansive, and in the odd game he’d sensibly play on the counter and surprise you. He went to Madrid (who hadn’t won a CL in a decade) and gave them their 10th European cup by destroying Pep’s predictable one-dimensional Bayern system. Again, Pep never saw it coming. He had the best players at Milan but boy did he get the best out of them as a unit!

Managers like Ancelotti (and Conte) are excellent because they’re adaptable, as was Ferguson. For that reason, totally agree that given the comparative resources at their disposal, Pochettino is probably the best tactician – although I’d counter that and say that Conte’s football has far more attacking variation. Mourinho has gone from one of the best, to one of the most yawn-inducing sadly. Klopp is an excellent manager although his teams are too susceptible defensively.

Pep is the anti-Ancelotti as he can only succeed with a World 11 and there’s only three teams who can offer you this: Pep has managed two of them already, and can’t manage the other. Great manager but I would say a very limited one that lacks adaptability. For instance, I believe Koeman is a superior all-round manager to Pep.
Stewie Griffin (Wenger belongs in the conversation below, not the VIP section)

 

One day John Stones could be as good as Craig Dawson
When will the media admit that John Stones is just not a very good centre half. Yesterday Jamie Carragher said “you could sell the entire Man City back four” then realised what he said and quickly added “except for John Stones”. Stones was without doubt at fault for the fourth goal and the ease with which Everton cut through the middle of City’s defence is hardly a ringing endorsement. The media narrative behind Stones, is totally unreal. If someone with his price tag had arrived from the Continent they would now be a laughing stock, with the likes of Neville and Carragher their chief critics. But because he is English, they continue to pretend he is good.

Stones has very few abilities that are required to be a top class centre half. He is clearly working with wrong manager to develop his game. Stones likes time on the ball, like to dribble is supposed to be a defender. To me the answer is obvious. Play him at full back. The best manager to develop John Stones would be Tony Pulis. Craig Dawson, was never quite commanding enough at centre back, but has played almost non stop for the last two years at right back. He is integral to the way the Albion play, chipping in with a few goals and a couple of assists. He is great defensively and gives us a good out ball when the keeper kicks long. The point of this email is basically to say, that with a bit of work, one day John Stones could be as good as Craig Dawson.

Finally fair play to Spurs. I don’t like you but you were just 100% better than us. That is the most impressive I have ever seen an opposition team in 27 years of watching the Baggies.
Ben The Baggie

 

Herrera: The b***ard
First of all I thought a draw was a fair enough result at Old Trafford yesterday. Some fouls and an offside were missed, but in truth unless Pogba repeats that handball mistake several more times this season, you’ve got to consider there’s an element of the gods smiling on you in the match.

Anyway Ander f**king Herrera, or as I would like him to be known from now on, a la some despised figure from history, ‘Herrera the Bastard’. It was clear he was a petulant little sh!thouse after his ‘West Ham lucky goal’ strop of a post-match interview a few weeks ago (he’s learning from his master media wise obviously), and he excelled once again on the pitch yesterday. I have no problem with the shirt tug really, you’d be happy if your own player did it to avert a dangerous break at that point of a match, but his reaction after the shove, really? But I suppose it is admirable in the current post-truth (and honour) world!

And finally do not compare him to Graeme Souness in anyway – a) not even half the player, b) If Herrera went in for a 50/50 with Souness he’d be in a casket, and c) If someone shoved Souness in the chest it would definitely be the perpetrator holding his own face, with genuine need to, a split second later.

Cheers then.
Bobby Bear

 

Klopp likes a long ball…
Klopp’s nerdy, and kind of creepy, personality has endeared himself to the English media and has led to him being portrayed as one of the good guys. I’m a little sick of it. His comments after the game were sour and also made without any self-awareness. If Klopp views long balls as not being a part of football then it will be a surprise for him to learn that Liverpool sit 12th in the charts for long balls played this season (United are 18th). Also, I’m sure he remembers Steven Caulker, that centre back he signed and played more games as a striker for the sole purpose of lumping it to him when Liverpool needed a goal. Bit of a hypocrite eh, Jurgen?
Dave (He still shut United’s midfield down brilliantly) Ireland

 

If ifs and buts were pots and pans in Liverpool…
Well ain’t Liverpool fans a well-balanced bunch?

United’s goal offside, Rooney’s stamp, stamp? Really? More a mistimed tackle than a stamp, the offside was marginal with the lino stood in the wrong place.

More efforts on goal, with only two routine De Gea saves whereas Mignolet made two outstanding saves.

Jose’s back, touchline spat? you mean Klopp losing his sh*t accusing Jose of trying to get Firmino sent off? Firmino tried to get Firmino sent off lad.

Then we have a Chelsea fan telling us we should have bought Mikel, cheers for that insight.

CB in Washington – blatant this mail, blatant.
Paul Murphy, blatantly in Manchester (not expecting his mails in the mailbox, I’m not Ed)

 

…Reading all the mails from Liverpool fans certainly brightened up what is allegedly the most depressing day of the year.

They all seem to be fairly certain in their heads that Liverpool should have won that game yesterday at Old Trafford.

Playing the ‘if, but, maybe’ card after a result is always a comedy event…’if we had finished our chances, but their goal was offside, maybe if Utd hadn’t played long ball’ etc etc.

Well if you take the blinkers off and see that ‘if Pogba had scored his chance, if Mhktarayan had scored his chance, if Zlatan had scored the free kick, maybe Pogba should have been reined in during set-piece defending’ then Utd could have won too?

We can all play the ‘if, but, maybe’ game. Neither side done enough to win. Utd had the better chances and Mignolet done well to keep the score down. Liverpool had more chances but were clinically rubbish. That’s it. Get over it.
Gary B (Herrera for Captain)

 

United v Liverpool thoughts
– This isn’t meant as a dig in any way, but can Liverpool fans explain how they tell if Jurgen Klopp is happy or angry? After the match when he went around his players, I genuinely couldn’t tell if he was congratulating them for getting a good away point or angry at them for letting in a late goal.

– Can Rooney just hurry up and score the record breaking goal? Then we can get the ‘250 goal’ Sky Sports special out of the way and he can bugger off.

– However, I can see why he came on. During the first half, I didn’t feel like I was watching a United v Liverpool match. There were no Manchester-born players, and apart from the young lad at right-back there was no local players at Liverpool. With Liverpool-born players like Gerrard or Carragher up against Manchester-born players like Scholes or Neville there was always a little more local pride to be gained by a win. Rooney coming on gave United a player where victory meant more than just three points. Basically he came on as a glorified Cheerleader.

– There is a sense of irony at Liverpool fans getting their knickers in a twist over the antics of Herrera when they had Suarez in their ranks not too long ago. As a Liverpool fan I work with said, Herrera is only doing what Suarez used to do and wind up the opposition by being a git.

– Also, get over yourselves Liverpool fans. Tactical yellow cards happen regularly in football. Until those who decide the rules of the game decide to stamp down on them, they are going to happen. It is cheating. But he got a yellow for it, so was punished.

– But Firmino should not have reacted in a similarly petulant manor. I’ve seen red cards given previously for reactions like that.

– Before the game, I thought we had one of the best, if not the best midfields in the league. Very disappointed to have seen it bossed by Liverpool. Carrick, for once, looked every bit of his 35 years and Pogba reminded us that he is still developing and had one of those games all top young players have once in a while. However, I heard Sky Sports describe it as harrowing for him. Poor choice of word when you remember the tragedies both clubs have been through.

– Yes Valencia was offside, but at the speed it happened, you can see why in a split second it appeared onside. But the goal didn’t come from that cross and Liverpool had enough time to clear the ball.

– Did the two teams swap defensive coaches during the week? United were defending set pieces like Liverpool have all season. We were full of nerves.

– The timing of the rumours concerning Costa seemed very apt. With the 35-year-old Zlatan reaching the same amount of goals in his first 20 Premiership games as Shearer and Aguero did, it was a reminder Zlatan could quite easily have had one last huge payday in China, and no one would have criticised him for it, but he chose to come to a tough league and keep challenging himself. Costa should take note.

– Zlatan has his detractors. He doesn’t run enough. He is arrogant. So what. He runs when he needs to and scores goals. His arrogance is what makes him and his interviews are nothing more than pantomime in their delivery. But who was the player getting the crowd going the most after the equaliser? Zlatan. He had equalised, but demanded a winner, and knew players respond when fans are verbally pushing them. And yes, my wife will confirm, I am a little in love with him!

– Long ball – good or bad? Who cares. There is more than one way to skin a cat and Liverpool were packing the defence ready to hit on the break. It made sense to try something different and get the ball in to the box, knowing Liverpool aren’t the best at defending crosses.

– It was a match of contrasting styles, and again, no one way is best. I love the high temp gengenpressing of Liverpool, but I also love Mourinho’s way of not caring if United have less of the ball or don’t cover as much – it’s what you do with it that counts with him. Tactically he isn’t afraid to change it.

– Finally, do people really care that much that Mourinho has left a couple of minutes before half-time? Seriously? Quite sad if you do.
John ‘I think at the end of the season, both teams will look back and see this as a good point won’ Morgan, Kingsbury

 

…There’s nothing enjoyable about watching a Liverpool-Utd match. The tension that derives from the game is unlike anything else. Still I feel that a draw was the correct result.

* Milner is the true epitome of a no-nonsense player. Lot of pressure on that penalty, after all De Gea is one of the best in the world, yet he was calmness personified. The horrible tackle by Rooney (more on him later) would have seen most players rolling around on the floor (i.e Herrera) trying to get him sent off. I’m glad Milner is in our team and is doing a fine job at left back.

* It was a big call to start Alexander Arnold. By all accounts and from Klopp himself, Moreno has been flying firm in training and the ‘safe'” route could’ve been to switch Milner to right-back and start Moreno at left-back. I thought he started out quite shaky, which is understandable but really grew into the role.

* Lovren was excellent. He wasn’t afraid of the tough challenge provided by Zlatan and was very harshly booked when you compare to the tackles by Rooney and Pogba.

* How good is Zlatan Ibrahimovic? He’s outstanding. That header was phenomenal and is living up to the billing as a star performer. Strangely you don’t hear the Utd fans clamouring for Rashford anymore…

* Pogba with his emoji recognition and the world’s worst haircut had a woeful day. I think Pogba is an excellent player but showed his immaturity yesterday. He was caught on the ball a few times and crowded out well by Can and Henderson. His grabbing and subsequent throwing of Henderson at a corner was a booking and in all honesty, Mourinho should’ve called him to shore.

* Contrary to belief, Mignolet has always been a good shot stopper. His save from Zlatan’s free kick was brilliant. It’s his decision making that bodes an issue with Liverpool fans. His shortness with a back pass being an example. And yet, he hasn’t made any huge mistakes this year. Possibly against Stoke, but he has been solid. I thought he performed brilliantly yesterday.

* The switching to a diamond formation put more pressure on Carrick and subsequently Rojo and Jones as Carrick so used to operating deeper was pinned right back putting Jones and Rojo into trouble with Firmino in particular geggenpressing the two centre halves.

* The issue with Joel Matip showcases once more the incompetence and ineptitude of FIFA. It’s not that difficult to make a decision surely?

* Ander Herrera is clearly a cult favourite for Utd and that’s fine. A few months back I, amongst others, debated the behaviour of Herrera on the pitch. Daniel Storey offered a balanced view but then you have the bias of Paul Murphy of Manchester who doesn’t see anything wrong. To quote Samuel L Jackson from Pulp Fiction, “Well allow me to retort” Herrera commits a bookable offence by halting Firmino attacking. Fine most players would do that. It’s his subsequent rolling around on to the ground holding his face, (you were pushed in the chest Ander) that p*sses me off. It’s cowardly. Simple as, you honestly wouldn’t see it from Zlatan, Rooney or even Pogba. Paul Murphy then gives out about Klopp on the sideline giving the old, “Well if Jose did that we’d never hear the end of it argument..” Problem being that Herrera blatantly cheating and trying to get one his players sent off typically annoyed Klopp and would any manager. Wenger, Pep, Conte, Poch, hell even Big Sam would’ve reacted in the same manner. Your argument holds no merit.

* Nothing wrong with long ball tactics. If they work they work and to be fair Fellini played quite well when he came on.

* Coutinho calmed Liverpool down when he came on. He was excellent and really Firmino should’ve done much better after that phenomenal reverse pass.

* I was delighted Rooney didn’t score yesterday, simply because I couldn’t imagine listening to the narrative that would come from Martin Tyler. That being said, I agree with Daniel Storey. He hindered rather then helped Utd but the sooner he scores the better. It’s infuriating to listen to the same thing over and over.

* Draw was a fair result and continues Klopp’s outstanding record against the top six away from home. Need to see a big result against Swansea now at the weekend.
Miguel Sanchez, LFC, Eire (Wijanldum needs to learn how to shoot)

 

…A few conclusions from a frustrated Red:

* Liverpool brought a spoon to a knife-fight and felt hard-done by in earning a draw. That speaks volumes. Pre-game it was all about how incredible the sixth-placed Manchester United had now become, and how difficult this would be for Klopp. When I saw the teamsheet, I feared a heavy beating. Come 65 minutes, I demanded three points.

* I keep hearing people say Liverpool sat back. The stats show they created more chances and had more touches in the opposition box. Again, this was a depleted side playing the best form-team in the country packed expensive superstars on their patch. They played on the counter, and they played well. How on earth can that be criticised?

* There’s nothing ‘wrong’ with going hoofball. But let’s not elevate it either. Phil Neville said “Jose won the tactical battle in the second half”. If only messrs Pulis and Allardyce received such lofty praise when their alehouse football earned them a point at home. Worth pointing out that they weren’t managing one of the richest clubs in the world with the most expensive team in the world, either.

* For all the bluster about United’s winning streak ahead of this, the teams they won against were all poor, with the sole exception being Spurs. The first time they came up against a manager worth his salt, they were bamboozled. They’ll be lucky to escape that sixth spot, even with City in apparent meltdown.

* In conclusion, a severely-depleted side without a win in four, wearing a kit known as ‘Toxic Thunder’, made a fully-fit team comprised of some of (apparently) world-class stars go full alehouse. If the United fans are really as delighted by this result as they’re making out, then their standards have truly plummeted. Agents Moyes and Van Gaal: Mission Accomplished.

We go again,
Don, Liverpool

 

Random weekend musings
I’m still a bit confuzzled from the weekend’s action, so here’s a collection of random thoughts I have had over the course of the weekend:

* Driving home on Saturday night, I listened to TalkSPORT for Leicester v Chelsea. Ranieri went 3-4-3 to match Conte and it backfired. How many more teams will we see following Conte’s blueprint? Something tells me unless someone can clone Kante, not many will find much joy.

* I then listened to the subsequent phone-in after the game with Danny Kelly and Stuart Pearce. Pearce actually surprised me – he could so easily have berated Costa, Payet and used his soapbox for outrageous Collymore-esque comments, but he actually made coherent points. In summary – he just felt sorry for the fans.

* Danny Kelly must have referred to Marco Silva as Mario Costa at least four times. No wonder we question the standard of our punditry/media/soapbox artists.

* Costa and Payet should just go. The media and terraces will tear them apart, piece by piece. Enjoy the weather.

* Man City. Wow. I saw a stat that they had 71% overall possession, and lost 4-0. That must be some sort of record, to dominate a game like that and still get spanked? Big respect for Tom Davies, that kid looks like a talent. (Let’s say no more for now, eh and let the kid get on with it)

* Man City need a new back four. They have arguably the best forward line in the PL, but my God that defence is a shambles. I bet Joe Hart is laughing over his cappuccino.

* My hatred for Ander Herrera is becoming unhealthy. You just want to punch his stupid, youthful face.

* I won’t say anything else that hasn’t already been said about the Liverpool – United game.

* Andy Carroll’s bicycle kick > Giroud & Mhkitaryan combined. Pure class.

* Spurs are genuine contenders now. They are hitting their stride just at the right time – it’ll be interesting to see how they do when the Europa kicks in.

Sorry if that’s a jarring read. Is it Friday yet?
Lee (My weekend was a blur), LFC

 

…There’s something wonderful about watching a young player make a breakthrough into a Premier League side. At this point, we know very little about Tom Davies, other than he played very well and offered great enthusiasm. In another year or so, it will all be ruined because of a dip in form/nightclub fight/bigotry/injury/getting picked for England and everyone will say mean things about him, so let’s enjoy it whilst it lasts.

On the subject of Davies, Nev-Lite, having actually worked with him, was asked to give us some insight into the young man. Is he two-footed? Technically advanced? Tactically astute? Best in midfield two or three? Apparently “he’s a man”. Thanks for that Phil.

Colchester United are unbeaten in nine games, which is really weird. I missed a few games early in the run, and now I’m not going because I’m worried I’ll jinx it. I am a grown-up.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with playing long ball, and Manchester United really only resorted to it in the last 15 mins, but it does fell like they should be beyond pinning their hopes on Fellaini by now.

I am by no means any good at tactical analysis, but I can’t quite work out what Man City are, or are trying to be. The best I could come up with on Sunday is ‘a bit weird, dodgy ‘keeper”.

Is there a difference between ‘Valencia was offside’ versus ‘Their goal was offside’?

I once saw a dog trotting up the street, run into the side of a moving car. It sort of bounced off a bit, looked really confused, and then carried on trotting up the street. Jordan Henderson reacting to gentle assault from Paul Pogba very much bought this to mind.
Jeremy Aves

 

City’s problem is possession
It seems to me that a large part of Man City’s problems stem from the amount of possession they have. No one can argue that they are excellent at keeping possession but it’s when they lose possession that they become vulnerable.

All good teams set themselves up in a way that means that defensively they are solid when they lose the ball. City, in their quest to maintain possession often have central defenders stood near the corner flag, full backs advanced down the touchline or midfielders in a group to perform neat triangles. If the ball is won by the opposition they are suddenly exposed to the counter-attack, with players out of position and slow to react.

Teams have very quickly worked out how to play against City, bringing players behind the ball, and letting Silva and de Bruyne do their stuff 30 yards from goal having taken too long to get there, with Aguero left isolated. Toure may be back in favour but he is too slow at the top level now. A lack of penetration down the flanks added to the mix means they can be “toothless” against teams set up to defend. Their record when they fall behind shows they find it hard to get back into the game.

Because of this, there is no point in having a goalkeeper who can be part of the possession game, particularly if he is barely competent at stopping shots. Much better to reduce the amount of “tippy tappy” football in the last third of the pitch, hit it long more often and “let” the opposition have more of the ball. Encourage them to come at you and your hopefully more solid set up and open up the game, aiming tocatch them on the break, something that City are good at.
Steve R

 

Ed’s Palace thoughts
This might take a while.

* Well done to West Ham United for their deserved win, and well done to Andy Carroll in particular for his goal.

* Crystal Palace are f###ed. Well done to F365 for making Sam Allardyce the Early Loser, but the real question is what took you so long? We’ve been awful for ages, and yet we’ve never had an Early Loser. It’s nice to win something, for once.

Early Loser also points out that the Eagles do have a squad on a par with several sides at least nine points better off, but this isn’t quite right. We have a solidly midtable first XI, but no depth to the squad. Of the players mentioned, James McArthur and Steve Mandanda have missed time through injury, Andros Townsend and Christian Benteke have had moments of brilliance and lots of utter dreck, and Yohan Cabaye has been okay. The only consistent standout performer has been Wilfried Zaha, who is away in Gabon at the moment.

Our squad is incredibly weak, as the summer transfer spending focussed on quality rather than quantity. This means there aren’t viable replacements for players who get injured, or in the case of Townsend, play so badly as to be described by the Palace blogger Rednbluearmy.co.uk as the worst player they’ve ever seen in a Palace shirt. That’s a bit OTT, but more indicative of how much has been done to accommodate Townsend – including moving Zaha to the left, where he is less effective – and the Stoke City game aside, there has been little reward.

The worry is that the players, manager and board start believing that we’re too good to go down, despite the concerns of fans. That happened to Newcastle United following the departure of a certain manager, too.

* One last point from Early Loser: ‘Allardyce’s reputation is as a man who revels, not crumbles, in adversity.’ I’d counter that with the anecdotal evidence over the years of teams being able to end winless streaks, and players end goal droughts, against us. It’s ridiculous.

United clearly don’t like playing in their new stadium, and their most creative player is on the naughty step. Yet they still beat Crystal Palace without much difficulty. Likewise, 40% of Swansea City’s points (6/15) have come in two games against the Eagles.

* There is unrest all around the club. Palace fans have a reputation for being patient in the face of poor form, realising that things have been a lot worse for us, and there are teams in more difficult positions than we are (Coventry City, Nottingham Forest, for example). For a while, our club was the closest the Premier League could have to ‘against modern football”.

Since then, the club has been bought by two businessmen who are happy to stump up money for marquee signings, but who are not big on public proclamations of what their intentions for the club are, a situation that invites scepticism, if not suspicion. The other aspect of spending all that money on players is that it puts huge emphasis on staying in the Premier League, which leads to short-termism and pragmatism. At the same time, we are being urged to “stop thinking like Palace fans”. As I have pointed out previously, it’s all well and good saying it when it means spending big money only a few years since administration, but it feels like the fans’ patience and preference for certain traditions are being either ignored or taken for granted.

* While appointing a manager like Sam Allardyce is hardly out of character for a team that has previously appointed Messrs Pardew, Warnock, Pulis and Holloway, the manager as a figurehead does affect the perception of the club. Put simply, and without wanting anyone’s sympathy, there are a lot of people who want to see Allardyce fail, regardless of where he’s actually working. By employing Allardyce, the board have taken the club out of a position of general neutrality/ambivalence, and put them in a position of antipathy; it will require a lot more strength of character from the players to battle against this additional pressure. It’s not all bouquets and white crayon, they’re going to laugh when you look down.

* There is another reason why it’s important to stay up this year, other than the financial ones. Our main rivals, Brighton & Hove Albion look set to be promoted, and we’ll have the first top flight Eagles-Seagulls fixture since 1981, when Albion were managed by “sent off for England” star Alan Mullery, and Palace were managed by “FA investigation” ace Dario Gradi.

* Next up for the Eagles is an FA Cup replay against Bolton Wanderers. Either we win this and our manager complains about fixture congestion, or we lose and get embarrassed, but he gets to focus on the league. Next in the league is Everton, who just walloped Manchester City. After that we’re due to play Bournemouth, who we haven’t beaten since they were promoted to the Premier League, and Sunderland, who have an irritating habit of winning in bad games at Selhurst Park.
Ed Quoththeraven

 

Big-ups for Big Sam
Sam Allardyce for Early Loser was an excellent choice (although I guessed Claudio Bravo), but I’m not going to take revisionist history sitting down. In his column, Daniel Storey says this:

‘Never mind that Sunderland only took ten points from Allardyce’s first 12 league games, and failed to move up a single position in that time.’

First, at least if Wikipedia is correct, it looks like nine points from eleven, since the 2-2 draw with West Ham was Dick Advocaat’s last game. Break it down, and you find Allardyce took nine points from his first six games, then zero from the next five. Four of those five happened to be against Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, and Liverpool. If you take the first ten games he managed against teams where Sunderland stood a decent chance, he won five, drew one, and lost four.

But even if we take the nine points from eleven as representative, that’s pretty good compared to the three points from eight they had when he arrived. At that rate, Sunderland would have finished with 14 points for the whole season. Allardyce’s nine points from eleven works out to 31 points a season. In other words, in those eleven games, he improved the team at a rate of 17 points per season.

That, folks, is good managing. As for failing to move up the table, not even Big Sam could control what other teams did. In the end, he got where he needed to be. In the second half of the season, Sunderland lost only to Tottenham, Manchester City, West Ham, and Leicester. It was a first-class job.

So there.
Peter G, Pennsylvania, USA (Great 16 conclusions on Manchester United – Liverpool)