Why would anyone celebrate finishing above Arsenal?

You know what to do tonight – watch the big one and then mail theeditor@football365.com

 

Not on board with the Tottenham hate
With all this talk of St Arsenhole’s Day, I have to make a confession.

I’ve never really understood the north London rivalry.

I distinctly remember being chastised for supporting Spurs in the 1987 Cup final. My reasoning was they were a fellow North London club – my cousin supported them – and I hoped they’d win. I was then informed I’m supposed to hate them.

But you know what? I’ve loads of Spurs-supporting mates and have never been all that bothered about hating them. Sure, on derby day, it’s a great atmosphere in the stadium, and it’s fun beating them but do I stick pins into a miniature Harry Kane every day? no, no I don’t.

So celebrate St Arsenhole’s Day if you want and rib me if you want Spurs fans – but I’m really not all that bothered about St Arsenhole’s Day or St Totteringham’s Day – last year particularly when I was far more bothered that finishing above Spurs was being used to distract fans from us buggering up our best chance of winning the league in years.

Like finishing fourth – these are just nonsense achievements.
Graham Simons, Gooner, Norf London

 

You can’t celebrate for doing it once, Spurs
St Totteringham’s Day isn’t something that sprung up over night. It took years of Arsenal being unquestionably better than Spurs for Gooners to come up with this “top bants”. The point of the name it’s given is to ape the days of patron saints, you know, because just like St George’s Day it comes around every single year without fail.

Of course the problem here is that one day Spurs would finish above us and we’d look a bit like twats. That day has seemingly come and I’m reluctantly accepting of all abuse and mockery coming our way from Spurs fans, after years of dishing it out you’ve got to take it on the chin.

But before you start naming the day on which you finish above us annually, it might make sense for you to do it more than once, you know, in order to provide some evidence that Spurs finishing above Arsenal is a regular occurrence and something that happens annually.

Do as you like but I think you might be a bit premature in copying St Totteringham’s Day. It took us twenty years to become quite so unbearably smug.
Jakey Boy, SE London

 

…I’m sure you’ll get at least a few mails on this, but no, you don’t get to name a day for Spurs finishing above Arsenal for the first time in 22 years… St Totteringham’s Day was coined in 2002, following a period of domination in the league – Tottenham had not beaten Arsenal for seven years at this point (1994/95 was the last time, resulting in George Graham getting sacked, which, incidentally, led to Bruce Rioch getting installed as manager, who made one of Arsenal’s greatest ever signings in Dennis Bergkamp).

St Totteringham’s Day came into being in 2002, which at the time was the earliest day that Spurs could not finish above Arsenal (18 March; this was beaten in the 03/04 season and again in 07/08, which remains as the earliest that this was achieved) and has only remained a thing because of the dominance of Arsenal over Tottenham during the Wenger years – the longest run ever for Arsenal finishing above Tottenham in consecutive seasons.

Tottenham have been excellent this season (actually last season too – Pochettino is an excellent manager and the Spurs squad is as good as any in the prem) and fully deserve to be challenging for the title, however Tottenham’s chance to name a day to celebrate the day that Arsenal cannot finish above them came and went in the 60s, when they finished above Arsenal eight years in a row (their best run). Keep doing what they are though and this could be the beginning of a period of domination, if Arsenal don’t pull their fingers out and make some changes at the club.

The following website provides all the details:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mikepitt/tothistory.html

Dom F, AFC, London

 

We don’t want St Arsenholes Day
Please for the love of God don’t stoop to their level and name a day when we finish above Arsenal this season. We’re better than that, and as Pochettino has repeatedly said we’ve got much bigger fish to fry.
Rob Pearse

 

…In reaction to the St Arsenholes day – as a Spurs fan, I want to say a large majority of us are just pleased that we look likely to finish above Arsenal and avoid the gloating from our rivals.

However, I really don’t think we should gloat as we need to do it a fair few times to be anywhere close to being smug about it. So let’s not start this warfare of smack talk, let’s just be pleased with where our club is now.

But for the Arsenal fans who think this is a one-off, you can’t seriously be that confident about it…surely.
Esteban

 

…How about St Lowering-Ourselves-To-The-Standards-Of-The-Team-Who-Only-Celebrate-This-Because-They-Continually-Bottle-All-Their-Objectives Day? Admittedly not too catchy, but would really sum up the spirit of actually celebrating finally finishing above them.

Seriously: it’s no real achievement for us to finish above a team that’s been so poor this year. I’ll be relieved as hell, of course, but I’d really prefer we don’t even acknowledge it as something to celebrate. Particularly as there is so much to celebrate about this wonderful Spurs team itself.
Alex G, THFC (the suggestion ‘Arseover’ did make me chuckle though)

 

Actually…
Myself and several friends are already preparing to celebrate ‘The Feast of Arse-Over’ after attending the match on Sunday.

We’ll have the lasagne.
Chris (once got in the mailbox for calling Sepp Blatter unprofessional, quiet since) C, Spur in Camberwell

 

The chance to be peak Spursy
– win and confirm St Arsenholes Day (kudos to Jon from this morning’s mailbox)
– win and (potentially, go on you Toffees!) go within one point of the leaders
– win the final north London derby at White Hart Lane
– win and keep our unbeaten home run intact
– win and keep our best ever win streak intact

We’ve been great this year, our players are wonderful, our manager is handsome and talented…and yet I’ll still be watching the game on Sunday peeking out from behind my fingers.

Is it just me, or is this feeling shared by any other Spurs fans?!
Luke, THFC, London

 

It’s all just terrible bantz
On the Arsenal hall of shame one of the lamest things about Arsenal was not mentioned – the whole St Totteringham’s day thing. I mean what even is that? You didn’t win anything so what are you gloating about? Nobody cares!

For some reason it induces the exact same feeling I get when I see Lee Nelson’s face – something along the lines of “eurgh, maaaate, shut up!”. Basically it is an embarrassingly terrible joke which doesn’t make any sense and only idiots seem to like… As an Arsenal fan, I would recommend Spurs not coming up with their own alternative – rise above it guys – it is not funny.

Another particularly lame thing about Arsenal is when people say they are a WOB or an AKB. Honestly, get a grip!

Side note – I didn’t know Lee Nelson’s name and my google search to find him was ‘kanye glastonbury prick in hat runs on stage’
James Warren

 

Some perspective on Poch, Klopp and Conte
Dan Mallerman argues in this morning’s mailbox that the jobs Conte and Klopp were at previously to their current employment has been overlooked when discussing Pochettino and whether he should be lauded or questioned for his performance as Spurs manager; stating that Poch has grown and progressed up the ladder at each club he has been at culminating with ‘quite possibly’ turning Spurs into the ‘very best’, whereas the other two were managing the best already.

Excuse my language, but what a load of tosh! What Dan himself has overlooked is that:

1) Conte managed Arezzo in Serie B (sacked), Bari in Serie B (earned promotion), Atlanta in Serie A (resigned after threatened by fans) and Siena in Serie B (earned promotion) before ‘getting’ to coach to Juventus (which he then took from a 7th place finish to unbeaten champions, a first Coppa Italia final since ’04 and the start of an era of domination before leaving to manage Italy)

2) Klopp managed Mainz in Bundesliga 2. (earning their first ever promotion to the top tier and to the Uefa Cup through league finishes before eventual relegation and resignation) before ‘getting’ to manage the second biggest team in Germany (who he took from their previous five seasons of becoming embroiled in bankruptcy, battling relegation and consistently finishing lower to mid table to multiple German Cups, league titles and a Champions League Final)

Yes, Pochettino has done a marvellous job at Tottenham and should be praised; he is an excellent manager. But to minimise and belittle Conte’s and Klopp’s achievements is, at the very best, foolish.

As I’ve written before on these hallowed pages, we need to cast off this constant need of comparison and detraction. But should that need arise (as proposed by the question in a recent mailbox concerning the three involved), at least try and actually compare before you detract.
Conor, Ireland

 

Get well soon, Michael
After such an incredible season at Tottenham it makes me so angry to see the club on the BBC news front page for this.

Just wanted to apologise to my fellow Spurs fan Michael Volley after he was attacked by another Spurs fan after the loss to Chelsea.

If by any chance the guy who did it is reading this: you’re an embarrasment to the club and to sport in general.

I think I can speak for most of my fellow supporters when I say, we don’t want you at the lane.

If you know this plum, turn the little scrotum in to the police.

Get well soon Michael.
Martin Crowe

 

Kudos to Arsene
Wenger gets quite a barracking in the mailbox these days. In light of the article about the spat between Conte and Guardiola, I thought I would just put one thing into perspective.

Arsenal have spent nearly £300m less than Liverpool, less than half of what Chelsea have spent since they got rich, and £160m less than City’s net spend since they got rich.

Critics have plenty to hit Wenger with. His obsession with French players and youth hopes rather than finished articles, his blind spot with strikers, his blind spot with centre backs, his creation of the esteemed “3rd loser trophy”, but he should be given huge credit for maintaining Arsenal’s position while all those above and many below have outspent him.

Kudos, Arsene. (But you should still leave.)
Guy S

 

Is player accountability the answer to cheating?
Nothing winds me up more than the blatant play acting and cheating we have to endure every week at the top level of football. Another splendid example on Wednesday night in the form of Alexis Sanchez, who in spite of the crystal-clear video evidence, will suffer no punishment for an obvious and deliberate deception.

Yes, there have been plenty of ideas floated to help crack down on this but I have a solution that might actually work – player accountability.

If the referee isn’t sure what has happened in a given situation, be that a possible dive, an altercation between players, a handball…or anything else that might involve potential cheating, the referee must ask the player directly what actually happened. The player then has the opportunity to own up to his potential misdemeanour, after all it is often just instinct that might cause a player to fall over if he’s expecting a touch from a defender. If the player then attempts to continue the deception and says “yes, I was fouled” or “no it did not touch my hand” and video evidence contradicts this, the punishment must be severe. In my view this would cut out cheating very quickly and create a cultural shift towards doing the right thing, even if only for the fear of recrimination.

Can you imagine if the referee had asked Henry after that infamous goal against Ireland: “Thierry, did you handle it?”. I would like to think he would have said, yeah ref, fair play, I did. But of course if he tried to claim there was no handball then the authorities, with clear video evidence on their side, would have carte blanche to throw the book at him. This becomes more than just an instinctive attempt to gain an advantage, and moves to nothing less than outright cheating. Would Henry have kept his mouth shut if he knew it meant he would have been banned from that year’s World Cup as a result? I don’t think so…
Rob, London

(Nice idea but I think players would just start every answer with ‘I think’. Thierry would have just said he wasn’t sure but he didn’t think it had touched his hand. They will always leave the referee with the decision – Ed)

 

Chelsea’s kids are alright
Just thought someone is the mailbox should give a shout out to Jody Morris’ all conquering Youth team at Chelsea. A fourth Youth Cup in a row last night (now six in eight years) and a third southern league title is pretty damn impressive. Beating your nearest rivals at that level 6-2 on aggregate is a pretty impressive feat.

Inevitably people will say, ‘yes that is all very well but will they ever get a game at first team level’ and the chances are that very few of them will, with the competition for places and the room for error at the very top clubs slight.

(In fact, we did say such a thing – Ed)

Chelsea seem to be following a system of having the best players in youth football and then loaning them out for a few years before they are truly considered first team ready. This has seen Chalobah, Ake and Ruben LC (admittedly not yet been loaned) getting minutes this season as well as Courtois in the past. Next year we may see squad places for Baker, Christensen and potentially Abraham who have been impressing for their loan teams this season.

Conte was at the game last night and must’ve enjoyed what he saw, sure they are probably not quite ready yet but they are another very talented bunch. All but one are English and the likes of Trevoh Chalobah (younger brother of Nat), Ike Ugbo, Dujon Sterling, Calum Hudson Odoi and Mason Mount must surely have a good as chance as any of making the grade.

I live in hope anyway.
Chris

 

Ed’s midweek thoughts
* You know it’s a messed up midweek night of football when for most of it the only team of the six to score is Middlesbrough. Might as well say ‘where else but the Premier League’ while we can, because they’ll be in the Championship soon.

* Well done to Hotspur for their win. They are a superb side with some incredibly talented players. This was the perfect opportunity for them to Spurs it up, but they didn’t. Chelsea, Liverpool and the Arsenal have all come a cropper against the Eagles, but Hotspur held firm.

* It was a game largely bereft of quality, with the only real such moment deciding the game. Hotspur managed six shots on target and restricted their hosts to just one. Despite this, there were certainly periods of the game when it felt like Palace were on top – admittedly short periods, but still.

Palace set up to defend first and foremost, and Hotspur certainly struggled to create a lot of clear-cut chances – one for Dele Alli shortly before the goal sticks out, but that was largely it. However, while the visitors were unable to find the goal to open up the game, they had the Eagles pinned back so far that they were able to contain with ease almost all the counterattacks. Those they couldn’t were broken up with fouls in safe areas, which allowed players to get back into their defensive position.

* Palace brought in James McArthur in place of Yohan Cabaye, hinting at the team sacrificing some creativity for defensive solidarity. McArthur has been an unfortunate casualty of the upturn in form, but remains popular with fans for his hard work and ability to chip in with goals.

* Mamadou Sakho’s injury was the true lowlight of the evening. He’s been a great player for us, and if there are any fans of other sides who think it’s karmic retribution for the “disrespect” he showed his parent club by congratulating a teammate on a goal, then I’d just like to say two things – firstly, grow the f##k up, and two, I thought you had to be 13 to use Twitter, so stop acting like a whiny toddler.

Also, it now looks like we’ll be playing Burnley with a starting centre-back partnership of Martin Kelly and Damien Delaney. Burnley’s away form has not been great but even they’ll fancy it. Kelly, though, has exceeded (the very low) expectations in recent games. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets an extension on his contract, just as a dependable backup for something I believe Sam Allardyce wants to try next season.

* Mauricio Pochettino made a double substitution at half-time, withdrawing Victor Wanyama and Mousa Dembele, with the clear implication from John Murray and Mark Schwarzer on 5 Live that this was to prevent one (or both) of them being sent off. Wanyama can count himself lucky to not have been shown a second yellow card, and Dembele committed several fouls that could have led to his name being taken.

This leniency brings out the double standards in us all: whenever we see a referee let an opposing player off a second yellow card with a warning, we all call to mind the time that ref showed a harsh red card to one of ours, while simultaneously forgetting all the times our players have got away with one.

My main disappointment with the leniency was that it enabled Hotspur to replace them, rather than having marauding attackers running at them while they’re walking a disciplinary tightrope.

* Sunderland and Middlesbrough fans deserve credit for their mutual gallows humour last night.
Ed Quoththeraven (presenting another award tonight while the Manchester-Greater Manchester derby is on will make me popular)

 

It’s Throbbing Thursday…
I don’t even know what Winty looks like but god damn it after reading that I want to take the girl out!

As if I wasn’t excited for the Derby enough, I’m now throbbing for it.
Orts, MUFC

 

Except…
I’d like to thank you for choosing that picture of Gary Neville and Paul Scholes as the centre piece of ‎your website not only am I get funny looks in a country were you can get jail time for being gay but I now have to explain to mgt why and how I’m opening nsfw at 10 in the morning.
Anon