Arsenal And The Ox Top The Winners

Arsenal and the Ox top the winners for going back to the top of the table, whilst Moyes and United's stay in the Winners list was more of a mini-break. Oh dear TC23...

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Comments 1 - 10 of (47)

lle (Manchester United) says...

@HarryBoulton - While players should shoulder some of the responsibility, it is Moye's job to motivate and inspire them, instill confidence in his players, have some sort of plan that isn't "take it to the byline and cross and hope for the best". It's highly unlikely that 95% of the team just forgot how to play football, the manager is a HUGE part of that. Smalling, Evans, Cleverely, Welbeck, Young etc. I never minded when looking at that team sheet under Fergie because I knew that they could be relied upon. The fact that the players look clueless on the pitch is an image of its manager. Yes one, two, three, i'll give you FOUR players could very well be out of form, happens a lot, but for the WHOLE team bar 1 or 2 to be playing this poorly? I'm sorry but most of the blame should be put squarely at Moyes' feet. Have any of Mourinho, Klopp, Guardiola take over right now, and you'll see how the players form would improve drastically.

Posted 9:48am 5th February 2014

Synergy says...

@Gab1965>"but it is normal for players at the age of Evra, Ferdinand, Giggs, Carrick, even Vidic and Van Persie, to age very quickly" - Giggs rarely played last year. Carrick is still in his peak and so is Van Persie. Ferdinand is finished and Evra has been ignoring the defensive part of his job for 5 years(so no change) and Vidic is decent when healthy.

My counter is this. Evans was immense last season and both Smalling and Jones have deputized competently on title winning squads for SAF. Did they all suddenly become incompetent defenders? And in 2011 Vidic missed the season, Ferdinand was injured a lot and we still managed just fine with a much younger and less experienced versions of Evans, Smalling and Jones.

Every single United fan, hell every football fan would have told you what was needed before was 1 or 2 central midfielders, a left back and possibly a center back. Moyes & Woodward instead wasted their time chasing shadows (Fabrigas, De Rossi etc) instead of getting in the needed players & then overpaid for Felliani. As for your "Barcelona trying to replace Messi"...didn't they successfully replace Ronaldinho? Didn't Arsenal successfully replace Van Persie?, Didn't Madrid replace Zidane and Figo? If you have money to spend, players can be replaced. Also demands are not another title, rather top 4. With the players he has, if he was a good coach, he would have had no issues getting there. Instead we will have the pleasure of watching Mata try to cross from the right wing.

And my problem is playing style. We look clueless. Players don't seem to have any idea what to do apart from pass it to a winger. No buildup play, no quick passes and the defense seems clueless. When every aspect of your game has gone downhill, its not the players, its the coach.

Posted 9:19am 5th February 2014

HarryBoulton says...

@Gab1965 - if you want to run with the party line that we only won the league because the others were poor then so be it. If that makes you feel better about another Man Utd title and helps you sleep at night, then I'm happy for you. It's entirely subjective and I politely disagree. Mancini had an expensive side full of internationals that had been supplemented with yet more investment following their title victory. The same goes for Chelsea as well. These sides were hugely funded on top of bank-busting investment prior to that season. United won it because we were the best side in the league, end of. As for this season, my concerns are growing with Moyes, but I am determined to give him time, as much as it's starting to grind my gears. I agree with Synergy, there appears to be no plan, but I am starting to doubt the players more than the manager. Not heir ability, but their attitudes. Yes they won the league under one of the all time great managers, but that makes me suspect them, not Moyes. They are the ones stepping out onto the pitch every week, why have they suddenly turned into a bunch of turkeys.............

Posted 5:54pm 4th February 2014

Gab1965 says...

Synergy - United's excellence? They were so excellent, City sacked their manager after they couldn't even get some consolation in the Final against Wigan. Not sure how much football you play, but it is normal for players at the age of Evra, Ferdinand, Giggs, Carrick, even Vidic and Van Persie, to age very quickly. A title win last year, with an ageing team, is now just an ageing team. Ferguson's replacements haven't been up to it, either. You talk about last season, the season before, etc, etc. Well, in that case, you could always bring Bobby Charlton back, couldn't you? Ferguson didn't make too many great choices in the transfer market either, many of his signings look suspiciously weak, hence Scholes and Giggs still getting a run out. So, are you saying that it Moyes' fault that the team is full of old players who are literally creaking? Talking about previous years with ageing players proves nothing. Squad's too old and Ferguson took too long to replace them. No amount of money will guarantee that the club can adequately replace Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic. One, maybe, two, possibly, but all three? It will be like Tottenham replacing Bale, Barcelona trying to replace Messi, whatever money the manager is given won't be enough. Ferguson needed to have the replacement in already, not looking for three players this season to come in and do a job. He left Moyes an almighty mess despite being champions. Oh well, it is fun for most of us.

Posted 2:40pm 4th February 2014

Synergy says...

@Gab1965> That is the biggest bunch of rubbish I ever read. United won the title last season. Weak league was the excuse trotted out to explain United's excellence. The year before that SAFs United finished second on goal difference without RVP and with their captain and best defender Vidic playing 6 games. In addition SAF didn't waste all of United transfer budget before making a hasty exit. He left a HUGE chunk for Moyes, which Moyes and Woodward failed to invest intelligently and instead wasted on Fellaini.

Is the fact that all the team does is cross from the wings and has forgotten how to pass or create from the center SAF fault? What about losing the ability to score in Fergie time or how to defend? Sorry all down to Moyes.

Posted 1:14pm 4th February 2014

rza (Manchester United) says...

@Synergy A quick look at the table in the 2011/2012 season gives you United and City on 89 points with Arsenal on 70, Tottenham on 69, Newcastle on 65 and Chelsea on 64, Everton on 56 and Liverpool on 53. Newcastle over achieved that season but all the other teams listed on there have all improved since that season. Yes United did reach 89 points that season, and I am not belittling Fergusons achievements but being 19 points in front of third place just shows the poor level that most teams were at that year. Playing those team above now with Rafael and Park in central midfield would most likely have yielded different results although I'm sure a lot of United fans would rather any of those two in midfield than Cleverley. The saying goes that Ferguson was worth 10 points a season and we are currently 7 points from fourth and are only in Febuary. Even that year and last year, we were never a vintage team, our style was not really defined. We got the job done. No more and no less than that and that was good enough then but not now.

Posted 1:06pm 4th February 2014

lle (Manchester United) says...

@Synergy I agree. Personally I'd be MORE than willing to give Moyes time if there was a clear vision/goal in sight and judging by his reactions to the latest in a long series of losses, he appears as farther away from a solution as ever. His interviews should shed a blinding light regarding the man's capacities. His own opinion on the matter is that they're lacking a bit of luck, always that same tired excuse.. Moyes is CONTENT with the way the team is playing. That's just ludicrous when anyone who watched the game can see that Stoke were actually good value for their win, just like most other teams who beat us. The main problem isn't the lack of quality in the squad, it's the lack of a competent manager and a severe lack of vision, short-term or otherwise. Does it make sense to expect a massive turn around? even if by some miracle we get 4th and are able to get better players than we currently have, should we hope Moyes to suddenly develop into a great tactician comparable to Mourinho and Wenger? to drop his conservative/negative style for a more positive one? He's 50years old and isn't going to 'grow into' the United job, his capabilities and shortcomings are well documented from an abundance of previous managerial experience. Moyes has always stuck to what he knows best, get the ball to the sidelines, cross. He even did that against Stoke at the Britannia, doesn't he even take the opponent into consideration when preparing for a game? Moyes was not, is not, and never will be a good match for a club of this stature, and he won't change! He was incredibly lucky to get this job, and his weaknesses and shortcomings are laid bare for all to see...

Posted 12:55pm 4th February 2014

keano81 (Manchester United) says...

scousertommy81, Leave it bleeding out you, don't be going down that road I don't want to hear it. I'm covering my ears like a kid When your words mean nothing, I go la la la I'm turning up the volume when you speak 'Cause if my heart can't stop it, I find a way to block it, I go La la, la la la la la na na na na na La la na na, la la la la la na na na na na, I find a way to block it, I go La la na na, la la la la la na na na na na [2x]

Posted 10:03am 4th February 2014

Synergy says...

@rza (Manchester United)> How quickly fans forget the 2011-12 season. No RVP (bought next summer), with only Rooney up front, lost their captain Vidic to injury (he played 6 games total the season) and SAF even had to play a defense of Carrick and Fletcher and a central midfield of Rafael & Park, such was the injury problems at one stage. Wanna guess what position United finished? Tied for first and lost the title on goal difference to City. So if SAF was in charge, we would be fighting for first, not "closer to fourth" as you suggest.

My problem with Moyes is simple, I can't see any implementation of his philosophy or playing style. I cannot see any quick passing on offense or pressing on defense. All I can see is attempted crosses from the wings (attempted coz Young can't cross and Valencia can't get past his defender) and balls lumped to the striker. Not to mention for a so called defensive coach, our defensive line seems clueless. I have given him half a season, waiting for improvements in the playing style, a display of flexibility in tactics and some progress from the team. As of now, I can't see a single sign of effective coaching from Moyes, either defensively or on the offensive end.

Posted 5:45am 4th February 2014

Gab1965 says...

This crash and burn that most supporters are currently enjoying is more Ferguson's fault than Moyes. The team was creaking last year, got away with it as the opposition was so poor, Mancini did get sacked after all, they couldn't even win the cup final, so City had acknowledged that their title defence was very poor. Combine that with injuries and players ageing and becoming past their best rapidly, and this season was always on the cards. Which is why Ferguson called it a day, I think. Sure, blame Moyes for tactics and coaching appointments but when people said that Man Utd were lucky last season, their supporters laughed. They are not laughing now.

Posted 2:08am 4th February 2014

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