Arsenal fans claim trophy jibes expose ‘patently bullsh*t trope’

Arsenal fans are coming out fighting against all of the nastiness directed towards them and their manager Mikel Arteta, who is not weird.

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Not all trophies are created equal
I figured it is better to send this before Arsenal lose to PSG, as that makes it slightly less like sour grapes.

I wanted to rant about the patently bullsh*t trope that ‘trophies are the only thing that matters’. It seems very popular with Man Utd fans and F365 columnists amongst others.

It is obviously completely disproven by the fact that everyone is scrambling for places 2-5 not for 7th. A team would be far better off finishing 7th and getting to send their 2nd eleven to stroll to victory in the deepest darkest parts of Europe than fighting with the big boys in the UCL. To take it further, why not get relegated a few times so you can win the League Two and then League One championships. Probably throw in an Anglo-Italian Cup along the way.

You don’t see Olympic swimmers going to the local swim meet to rack up a bunch of medals. The primary goal in any sport is to first be competing at the highest level. If I had to choose, I would much prefer to be still in the UCL come Carabao final time than competing in, or even winning, the final.

I get the idea that in the future you are much more likely to reminisce about the trophies you won than the times you finished in the top 4, but I am also sure that if Arsenal are fortunate enough to ever win the UCL in my lifetime then I will remember that, however I couldn’t list all the FA Cups Arsenal have won without looking them up.

One final nod to Matt Stead’s piece. If you changed the result of just the last game to Arsenal beating Barca then England end up with 7 (seven) teams in the UCL next year which would also be objectively pretty funny, at the expense of my last nerve. I, personally, would also much rather a Spurs victory in the Europa than Man Utd. Man U losing is definitely funnier and Harry Kane abandoning Spurs to win trophies gaining him exactly nothing would be a bonus. We also might get to enjoy another year of Angeball.
Ozzy AFC DC

MORE ON ARSENAL FROM F365:
👉 The curious case of Mikel Arteta and his bizarre Liverpool title logic
👉 Five Premier League tables that expose Arsenal and a failed title challenge
👉 Wenger drops PSG vs Arsenal verdict as he reveals two things the Gunners ‘need’ to reach CL final

Do we have to have this performative nonsense again?
Two articles in two days about Arsenal failure and Arteta has lost it, before we even play our CL second leg? Come on guys.

I have no idea who this Sam Cooper is, but good to see a new patsy out to write antagonistic articles to rile your Arsenal readers with tired tropes/narratives.

But Sarah, as a long time fan I definitely expect better. Is it really bizarre logic and a reason to dislike Arteta when he basically says “If Arsenal of the last couple of seasons were in literally the same place as Liverpool this season, we’d be champions of the league”? Like, that’s very mild, not even incorrect stuff.

Is he saying this Liverpool team don’t deserve it? No. Is he saying his previous Arsenal teams were better than this Liverpool team? No. Is he even saying, as some people seem to be reading, that this Liverpool team will finish with fewer points than Arsenal of the last couple of seasons? No.

He literally is saying, if you are in the right time at the right place, your efforts are rewarded. We weren’t there last year, or the year before, he wants the team to go out and earn it tonight and make this our moment.

It isn’t any more layered, or cynical, or snide than that.
Tom, Leyton

The Liverpool view
“Liverpool have won the title with fewer points than we have in the last two seasons. With the points of the last two seasons, we would have two Premier League titles.

Dear esteemed Arsenal manager, have you considered the possibility that LFC won the title with fewer points than you have had in the last two seasons, precisely because your very own team (amongst others) were so useless in putting up a more credible challenge?

There were games we drew instead of going for a win, because your very own beloved team (amongst others) weren’t running us close enough for long enough. So we didn’t need to go all out, rather than risking injury or goal concession from getting counterattacked. And conserving our energy for the next game.

Also to remind u, in case u claim the EPL is weak this season, it will get a 5th UCL place on the backs of EPL teams’ performances in Europe. In addition, the latter stages of UCL, Euope and Euro Conference league, all feature EPL teams prominently.

So if you’re sour grapey about not winning the EPL this year despite City’s demise, maybe you’d like to think again before casting shade on other competitors which significantly outshine your very own, especially in the EPL race.
Gab Ynwa

PS Arteta for life long manager! He’s not won one of the big prizes and it’s increasingly looking like he won’t either. And he’s dour too, and great at giving lame excuses. Just perfect as a manager of a competitor 😊💪🏻

…Hey so I just finished reading your piece on Arteta and his pathetic little go at Liverpool having less than his Arsenal’s team last two league totals. Can’t he just congratulate a team for being better? Course not. He has become, without any doubt, the new improved Mourinho. So unlikeable. I hate that guy! He knows there’s 3 games left though right? He knows that yeah?

I really wish in your article you pointed this out though and I really wish I could say this to him personally. If, IF, the season was over after 35 games Liverpool would have finished above those losers on both occasions. In 22/23 Arsenal had 81 points after 35 and last season they had 80. So where is his logic? He’s clearly got Trump deranged system. What. A. Loser!
Alex LFC (Campeones, campeones)

The grass may not be greener, Trent
The reaction of media and fans of Liverpool’s opponents to the reaction of Liverpool fans over Trent leaving is an indictment of the current social media driven world we live in. Everyone has to have strong reactions on either side of a topic – each always given equal weight when none may be required. But it makes for clicks.

I am more Interested in the idea that Real Madrid are ‘clever’ for using their ‘clout’ to wrangle players away from other clubs for free – encouraging players to run down their contracts in the hope Real Madrid consummates the marriage with a large contract. Partly offset by Real Madrid saving the huge fee to buy the player.

What if by the time the contract is run down they are not wanted at the desired club. We saw that with Rabiot who turned down a lucrative contract extension with PSG for a potential move to Barca or Real that never happened – ending up at Juventus, the king of second hand free transfers – at a lesser contract.

While it worked out for Trent – likely because he is the perfect age profile – it won’t always work out. Wijnaldum thought he was going to Barca, Ramsay thought something similar. Both ended up elsewhere in what seemed like places they never desired initially.

We have seen many ex-Liverpool players move on and either not be as successful or as happy or both as the situation they left. They may have a few extra Euros on their pockets but they are never the same. You have to give Klopp his due – he could attract talent with his personality but he was willing and happy to work with whatever he had and only wanted players that wanted to play for him and the club.

So while many are decrying Trent leaving – for good or bad – it’s better he leave if his thoughts are elsewhere. So glad to see current management continue along those ideals embodied by Klopp. It has to be more than just the money. As most, if not all those players plying their trade in the Saudi league (and China before that) find out.
Paul McDevitt

Actually, Trent move serves all parties
Having heard the news that Trent is moving on and his near certain destination to a club I regard with the greatest contempt I struggled initially with the why would he want to do that angle which any true fan of a club would. In most cases we support our clubs our entire lives (I started at age 7 and soon approach 4 decades of this wonderful relationship to the club I love) and could never imagine stopping or supporting another club, ie “leaving”

But players and fans are different. In order to do what they do to the level required they can’t afford the attachment and emotionality of the average fan. In short we get to act like children a lot of the time but they must be the grownups in the stadium, controlling their emotions, focusing solely on their performance, their career, their livelihood.

We admire and adore these traits when these players can perform under the most incredible pressure and deliver us the results we crave. But then when they make apparently cold, professional decisions like Trent has done we can’t understand it sometimes because we want them to be like us again, fans.

We saw it with Jurgen when he retired he said he could just be a fan again like us. As a manager he had to control that side of himself to produce the performance required. Or we see it in players like Darwin who don’t see to be able to detach from their emotions, those for whom it means too much and who fail as a result.

Looked at purely from a footballing perspective Trent’s move to Real makes a lot of sense. I’ve heard some very well regarded commentators saying that he will struggle as a right back there and Gab made this point very well in the mailbox. But this overlooks the fact that Real will have a new manager come next season and that will be Xabi Alonso (an excellent example of the clear thinking professional) who plays 3-4-3. In this system I imagine Trent will play as the right wing back.

Released from the shackles of defensive responsibilities this could see a further blossoming of this wonderful player. I suspect this was a major part of his decision. To get as good at what you do as Trent has you need a relentless desire for improvement, that’s what drives these guys. At Liverpool this season he played very well as a traditional right back but we all know this does not fulfill Trent’s potential.

The numbers show this. At his peak productivity with the team built to accommodate his prodigious talent (and Jordan Henderson covering his every foray forward) he was racking up 12/13 assists a season – ridiculous numbers for a full back and never seen before. This year he has 6. Like Salah watching his numbers he knows and is acutely aware of this. At Real pinging balls into the box for Mbappe and Vinicius, his numbers could soar again.

Conversely while every team in the world suffer and worsens when a player like Trent leaves his 9 premier league goal involvements this year are replaceable in a team where the creative focus has moved to midfield. And Slot appears thus far to favour the high energy underlapping full back who steps inside the winger, Trent’s legs (and was that a bit of a belly when he took his shirt off?!) can’t play this game for another 5 years.

So for me in football terms this is a good move for Trent, for Real (grrrrrr) and maybe even for us. And truth be told that lad owes us nothing. Go forth and shine Trent, but I hope we humiliate you and your entitled new man baby club in Europe when we meet again.
Dave LFC

MAILBOX: Trent transfer means Liverpool ‘This Means More’ needs an asterisk

Footballers are contractors
Mike, LFC…while I don’t necessarily disagree with your opinion, the fundamental error in your argument is that players are employees of the club…they aren’t, they are private contractors.

LFC don’t pay Trent Alexander Arnold a wage, they pay Trent Alexander Arnold Limited (or whatever his company is called) an agreed fee each month until the end of the contract. And Trent Alexander Arnold receives wages from Trent Alexander Arnold Ltd and they sort the NI, PAYE etc.

In any other industry it’s the same, your company agree to do 6 months work for my company for £100k…2 months later one of my rival companies offers you £150k to start work immediately for them. You agree. I take you to court and win due to breach of contract and receive the value of the contract plus compensation. Same as a transfer fee.

It’s crap and I don’t necessarily agree with the whole system but it’s not like Ron Yeats getting £60 in an envelope on a Friday afternoon in the 1960’s, the same as dock workers, shop staff etc don’t get paid like that anymore either.
Mark Jones, LFC, Liverpool

Defence of a vast number of Liverpool fans
I’m not sure if this needs said to the masses or not, but there are large swathes of Liverpool fans who when we see “This means more”, or “Deface Trent’s mural”, roll our eyes and think, yep, that is where the reputation comes from. Every fanbase has its tw@s, and they mostly tend to be the most visible.

What a game that was last night. Now for Arsenal to bore us all to death tonight.
Adam, LFC, Belfast

No defence for Seamus, though
Wowee, Seamus went full manchild with his anti-Madrid Trent rant this morning. I wonder did he type it from under his Liverpool duvet cover? Anyway, a couple of points in response, cos why not:

– Real Madrid’s recent history does not include deliberately injuring Salah in a Champions League final. Liverpool’s recent history includes massive victim syndrome over an awkward landing after a cynical foul which led to Salah having to go off. Most other days he gets up and plays on. Get over it for god’s sake, it’s SEVEN YEARS AGO!!

– Yes, Madrid have a habit of throwing their toys out of the pram and behaving like bullies in a school yard, particularly in the transfer market. Ever was it so. But do you know what other habit they have? Winning. A lot. While paying insane wages to live in a beautiful European capital. I’m pretty sure the actual footballers are allowed to get on with the business of kicking footballs in that environment, which seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.

– Their legendary manager is the latest in a long line of them. They might misfire with the direct replacement, but then they’ll sack him double quick and go again. Won’t be long before they get the right man in, they always manage it.

– The butthurt “they aren’t even the best team in Spain” paragraph – seriously? They’re one of the 2 biggest clubs in the world, if not the biggest. Any football fan with even the most minute appreciation of the game knows that Madrid guarantee trophies. Trent’s % chances of adding more silverware are massively improved in that team vs. Liverpool.

– Do you honestly think modern footballers give a toss about the prospect of statues outside the ground? Or that they even vaguely think like you? You may never have dreamed of playing for Real, but that’s not relevant is it? I don’t think Trent had second thoughts along the lines of, “Oooooh, Seamus might put me in the same bracket as Steve McManaman – I’m in a right pickle here”.

– Telling other fans they don’t understand football if they don’t sympathise is pompous as hell. You go ahead and wail into the walls of your fandom bubble, but remember that there’s a wider context to everything. Fair play to Trent for choosing a change in surroundings if that’s what he wants. It’s a privilege he’s chosen to exercise. No doubt you’ll try to canonize Van Dijk and Salah for signing new deals, despite the latter very openly using the media to leverage a giant weekly wage out of the club.

Key takeaway here: a successful grown man made a very understandable career move given all the factors at play. Other less successful grown men are losing their shit because of their own arbitrary allegiance to a football club (which will move on from this far faster than they do, ironically). Mike LFC summed up the idea of players as assets nicely, and the flip side is that they should know and use their value as such assets. Trent is no exception. As much as I might also find Madrid annoying, if I were in his shoes and they came calling I’d almost certainly make the same decision.
Keith Reilly