When did Arsenal become so small-time with their ‘Starboy’ and over-celebrations?
We also have opinions on Arsenal’s striker problems as well as Trossard and Jorginho. Plus views on Chelsea, Palace and West Ham.
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When did Arsenal become so small-time?
Just watched Arsenal’s deserved win over Liverpool.
No complaints but one question, when did this great club become so small time?
The recent addition of the song played before games to create an atmosphere
The drum
Using other teams’ chants
The word ‘Starboy’
Spending £200m and being worse
Fans playing up for the cameras
Arsenal TV
Trust the process
Kirkland Pep in charge
Arsenal used to stand for something, it was a club steeped in tradition and doing things the right way with a touch of class. These days their constant quest for attention makes them look like cheap influencers.
I never used to mind Arsenal, and hoped they’d win the title when pitted against Man U and Chelsea. Now they’re the worst of the lot
Andy, Newcastle (Let Cody finish his story)
Can we have some analysis please?
This Arsenal win feels like a bit of a sea change between what a modern fan wants in analysis and what they get given on TV.
Carragher and Neville were rightly regarded as offering something new in their insight/analysis, but in going full Keyesy in their celebration police stuff (as well as just reiterating the same points about ruthlessness) they failed to spend any time looking at what made Arsenal so dominant and shown themselves up.
This isn’t surprising to a fan base now probably carrying the biggest chip on its shoulder, but pundits at this point are offering nothing whereas online and increasingly in print, you get everything broken down so quickly and, if you can sift through the hyperbole/nonsense around terms like ‘elite’ and ‘generational’.
Sky will start losing people – I now switch on right on KO, off for half time, on for 2nd half and off again at full time. No prattling and no ads. That can’t be helpful for them. More actual insight is desperately needed.
Tom (I crave a Greg Olson/Tony Romo tier ex-player commentator who actually breaks down the game as you watch it) Walthamstow
More credit for Mikel Arteta please
The last league game Liverpool played in north London they will have felt robbed, yesterday they can have no such complaints. They really were comprehensively and deservedly beaten by Arsenal. Arsenal apparently put more xG on Liverpool than any team in the league since that stat started being a thing. Arsenal also restricted Liverpool to a single shot on target following on from keeping City to zero shots on target earlier in the season.
They way Arsenal started in the first 15 minutes was incredible, Liverpool couldn’t live with it, they were pressed in to submission and only had desperate long balls as any answer.
Arsenal are possibly one of the best drilled teams off the ball and they exert so much control and dominance in virtually every game – including games when we don’t win.
It still amazed me how Arteta gets so little credit for this alone. Remember this guy has just 200 games as a manager. Liverpool and City have dominated this league for 5-6 years, created elite teams with elite managers and Arteta is going toe to toe. Now of course we might not win it, from here we shouldn’t be expect led to. Mourinho was made a famous quip about being the ‘little horse that needs milk’ when declaring his Chelsea team not in the title race when up against what he said was a 2 not 3 horse race. That was inaccurate at the time and a classic Jose mind game, but that is much more of a reality this season. Rookie manager, youngest team, not won it for 20 years up against the absolute juggernauts of City, Liverpool, Pep and Klopp.
What it is about Arteta and Arsenal doing well that really boils people’s bitter p*ss? We’re back to the over celebrating criticism again. How can your life be so bitter and negative that the only thing you can turn to is sucking any joy out of moments and games by sarcastically telling everyone ‘they celebrated like they won the Champions League!’ Seriously grow up.
Richard Keys is sticking more pins in his Arteta voodoo doll, but also joined by Carragher who couldn’t hide is disappointment of his Liverpool team being so thoroughly beaten. Isn’t it about time that the positions of Neville and Carragher are challenged as our supposed premier pundits because they are unable to offer objective analysis with anything that might concern their teams or rivals to their teams.
Anyway, to the game. Jorginho was deserved man of the match. He exuded class and calmness. Excellent on the ball and sharp in the tackle. He’s a hugely underrated player who would still walk in to Chelsea’s team. Andrea absolute bargain for £12m, Arsenal need to give him an extension.
The much-maligned Havertz was also very good, gave Arsenal an outlet that Liverpool didn’t have. He battled and unsettled Liverpool’s CB and got Konate sent off by two terrific pieces of hold up play. I thought Liverpool looks rattled as well, like they didn’t expect Arsenal to be that good, they didn’t like being pressed and thrown off their game. The back 4 are used to having things their way and Arsenal gave them a physical test that they didn’t like. There was lots of chirping at the ref and indiscipline on the pitch.
Arsenal were told title challenge over if we lost, it was a massive performance and massive win. We were also told last year was a flash in the pan but we’ve shown that there are no longer just 2 elite teams in the league. I mean no offence to the rest of the league but for me the top 3 are a fair bit ahead of the rest in terms of a style of football which is long term sustainable towards winning.
These 3 teams genuinely dominate games, virtually every game and restrict their opponents to very little. This suffocating dominance is what Arteta has pushed this year, it has possibly reduced the chaotic excitement on display last year but it’s also made the team more mature and hopefully more ready for the crucial end to the season.
Rich, AFC
Let’s see more Trossard
Someone is going to have to explain to me why he doesn’t start at false 9 when Jesus is out of the squad. Or just start more in general. Hate to say it but maybe Martinelli needs the comp and not our keepers?
And by someone, I mean Mikel Arteta.
I sound salty but I’m not – we might not win but you guys (and you know who you are) are going to have to actually win against us…we’re not leaving this race…neither will Liverpool.
We’re in for a proper one. Despite whatever Stewie’s going to end up saying at some point about how our season will end up as a disaster.
MAW, LA Gooner (We f***ing need a world-class striker though good f***ing god)
…and Jorginho
Every time I’ve seen Jorginho in an Arsenal shirt he has impressed me. I personally feel that Arteta should keep him in the starting eleven.
I also think Havertz is proving his worth.
Declan Rice has nothing to prove.
Arsenal fans blaming Raya for the goal are laughable. Our own hero, Saliba, for not the first time this season, cocked up there.
Arteta and his recruiting team are working wonders.
Arsenal could play their game because Liverpool weren’t going to defend deeply.
The only team that have deserved all three points in a match v Arsenal this season is Fulham.
Chris, Croydon
Adding to 16 Conclusions
Just read the (always excellent) 16 Conclusions and wanted to try and add some flavor to some of them (excellent doesn’t mean I agree with everything all the time):
– While Van Dijk definitely should have dealt with the ball much sooner instead of doing his best impression of Saliba on Liverpool’s equaliser, that was a perfectly timed and clear barge from Martinelli into Van Dijk which moved him enough to put him in the way of Alisson just as he was about to smash the ball. Alisson’s reflex / reaction in that instant was to avoid risking injuring his teammate instead of getting to the ball at all cost, which frankly is fair enough. I’m still not sure whether that challenge falls under “shoulder to back” or “shoulder to shoulder” after watching it in slow motion, though what is crystal clear and should have been for the ref considering where he was on the pitch then is that Martinelli is only ever trying to push and unsettle Van Dijk, not challenging him to squeeze through and put a foot on the ball (in contrast to Diaz on Saliba). So I just don’t understand why this wasn’t given or at least reviewed by VAR. Happy to be educated on this, but at this point in time, the feeling is defenders probably need to make a meal of it in those instances to ensure things go their way…
– As positive a result this may be for the Gunners, the core issue of a lack of a proper goal scorer is still there. As dominant as they were, Arsenal scored goals that were all linked to (forced) mistakes from Liverpool (ball parried to Saka on the first and just enough deflection to squeeze exactly through Alisson’s leg on the third). This easily could have finished in a draw. Arsenal should definitely be celebrating winning this fixture against the current league leaders, but should also be aware that these points weren’t so much taken than gifted to them.
– As poor a performance as this was from Liverpool, this feels more like it should be filed as an off day – wrong line-up, wrong tactics. Both Szoboszlai and Bradley were unfortunately out at the last minute, which will have forced Klopp’s hand somewhat, but further unsettling the team by removing Nunez from a performing front three and forcing Jota out wide was his own doing. The bigger picture should be that this was always going to be a tricky fixture with tough points to get. While not ideal this result was a likely outcome and remains a manageable one. It would have been better not to have seen Konate sent off, but he has been in need of a breather recently.
– Ultimately, nothing shown in that game really moves the needle in terms of expected outcomes for the season. Man City were and remain favourites, Liverpool were and remain strong outsiders. Arsenal were and remain a reliable striker short of overtaking Liverpool as main outsiders.
Nico, Liverpool fan in Paris
What a weekend that was…
Growing up, my mood for the week, and particularly my weekend, was almost entirely dependent upon how MUFC did. I’m sure you’ve all been there. One season you could not not listen to every minute on the radio in case you missed one minute and jinxed it, and on a different season, you avoided all news of the game in case you jinxed that. In hindsight it is amusing to think our actions had any influence whatsoever. I’d be inconsolable if MUFC lost major games, such to Southampton or Arsenal in Cup Finals.
Now that I’m older, with other concerns and responsibilities, football is no longer my all-consuming passion. There are even times I cannot find the time to sit down and watch my beloved MUFC play, let alone watch every other single Premier League game. I’m older, perhaps wiser and have come to realize that football is not a “matter of life and death” as Bill Shankly once said.
Then along comes a weekend like this. Newcastle and Luton traded blows like Ali v. Frazier. MUFC played with the same level of defensive intelligence as the Charge of the Light Brigade. Spurs are a roller coaster. Wolves thumped a terrible Chelsea. When was the last time you saw Arsenal play Liverpool off the park? This weekend was a veritable orgy of football. It may not have been one for the purists but just about every game was entertainment. And as we stand, well past Christmas, the top four are neck and neck for probably the first time in ages.
Yes, no doubt City will win their games in hand and go on to with an unprecedented fourth title in a row, but for a brief moment, put to one side your bias and partisanship, complaints about VAR, FFP and all the cheating, and just step back for a moment and bask in the gift that is the English Premier League.
Adidasmufc
(In each decade of the 60s and 70s there were at least 6 different winners of the old English First Division. There is something very gratifying about that.)
From Russia to Chelsea with love via Ukraine
I should be thrilled with Arsenal’s hoodoo-exorcizing win over Liverpool yesterday evening but no.
Well not exactly.
Instead I derived a far greater joy seeing Chelsea lose for the umpteenth time yesterday. To Wolves.
Who would have thought that Putin’s meddling war in Ukraine would set off a chain reaction that would send Chelsea into such a tailspin?
Years ago, David Dein was speaking for the rest of the League when he remarked; “Roman Abramovich has parked his Russian tank in our front garden and is firing £50 notes at us.”
After the beloved Roman had to give up one of his toys as punishment for aiding the invasion of Ukraine, Todd Boehly won the race to buy the club.
Over the last 2 decades, Chelsea had grown the habit of gaming the transfer market, hoarding players they didn’t necessarily need, farming them out on loans and selling for profit to balance the books, bullying and elbowing clubs out of the way to get their man and throwing insane money at mediocre players (Enzo is NOT a £100m+ midfielder. Neither is Caicedo.)
They used these chaotic tactics to hack their way to the top of the domestic and continental game.
They were the first to ruin the transfer market with inflating transfer fees.
So it’s so funny that they’re currently being strangled by those same tactics.
The transfer that so encapsulates Chelsea’s self-inflicted predicament is Mykhalo Mudryk.
He was “snatched away” from Arsenal in a transfer tug of war heralded with glee by Chelsea fans.
In reality it was actually Arsenal refusing to be bullied into paying over the odds for a highlight reels player.
The player Arsenal bought instead for a stupendous fraction of what Mudryk was bought for slammed home a smart finish against the league leaders on Sunday.
The world is such an unfair place where the rich get away with evil so the chaos at Stamford Bridge is karma serving a mild comeuppance that FFP has been unable to.
No matter your club allegiance, if you don’t enjoy the hot, stinking mess playing out at Stamford Bridge then I doubt if you’ve got any humanity in you.
After spending more than a billion pounds to buy 437 players, it’s hilarious to watch Mauricio Pochettino trying and failing so far to get any sort of tune or rhythm from that lot.
I do hope Poch was also signed to a 15-year contract so that when he gets his P45, he can get a chunky pay-off.
Please bring back Jose too on a 3-year contract to continue the circus.
Alphonsus, Sunderland Gunner
On Hodgson, Palace and more misery
Roy Hodgson’s approach to management has started to resemble a band from the 1980s who are somehow still touring, but insist on playing mostly new songs, to the enjoyment of very few people. On Saturday, we had the classic staple of an ultra-defensive setup offering little in attack and a refusal to make substitutions, but they were exceptions among a lot of more recent offerings: a general inability to defend, conceding very early, apathy towards what it is supporters care about, criticising young players to the media, and injuries to star players.
Supporters of Brighton & Hove, Charlton, Millwall and Watford aside, nobody wanted it to come to this. Nobody wanted to see the players and the fans in heated arguments. Nobody wants to see banners protesting against Steve Parish, without whom there would be no Crystal Palace FC. Nobody wanted to hear chants against Hodgson, a manager who has an important place in the recent history of the club.
However, something has to change. It simply isn’t enough anymore to setup primarily to defend by packing the team with defensive players: the words “Liverpool Football Club” scream this in 256-point typeface; their forwards are incredibly important to their defensive duties and their midfield pushes forward to support them (just as well, given how bad their actual defenders can be at defending) and the potential (counter)attacking threat keeps the opposition in check.
It is also deeply troubling that in consecutive games Palace have conceded in the first couple of minutes, and are giving away goals that don’t require too much effort for the opposition. Whether this is a result of poor preparation or a pre-match team talk that doesn’t properly motivate the players, the responsibility is with the manager and his coaches.
Another common theme this season has been Hodgson being harsh in his post-match comments on his younger players for not making an impact in their substitute cameos and saying little about the inefficacy of the older starters. On Saturday, an injury to Marc Guehi meant a reshuffle before Adam Wharton was thrown in at the deep end. He acquitted himself well in difficult circumstances, but Hodgson felt it was important to remind everyone of the moment he was robbed in the build up to a goal. That’s nothing compared to his longer-established habit, of being totally apathetic to the concerns of fans.
It’s not just the Brighton game, it’s the general sense of losing in televised games while playing the sort of football designed to make the broadcasters not want to show you. The number of games screened is only ever going to go up, you have to be able to entertain the viewers and in doing so, entertain your actual fans.
Finally, we cannot leave this without mentioning the Michael Olise situation. Olise got hurt against Sheffield United and had to be substituted immediately after he scored. Hodgson said the medical staff had cleared Olise to play for 45 minutes, so he named him on the bench and brought him on at half time. When Palace were 3-0 down. He lasted nine minutes before suffering a recurrence of his injury. In other words, by playing him in a lost cause, he’s lost his best player for several games when he’ll really need him.
It was frankly dreadful management and in other circumstances might have looked like an act of self-sabotage – at least, it’s not hard to imagine a certain former Chelsea or Manchester United manager doing this as a way of daring the club to sack him.
Between Saturday’s humiliation at Brighton and next Monday’s inevitable humiliation at Chelsea, there are nine days. It would have been the perfect opportunity to replace Hodgson and give his replacement a chance to work with the squad, or what’s left of it. However, that hasn’t happened, so the downward trend will continue, all the while Parish sits there crossing his fingers and Hodgson reacts to each adversity with little more than a shrug.
Ed Quoththeraven
Moyes out
Good to see Dave T starting to smell the pong from West Ham, that actually we have been giving off all season. However, I submit that he is also too quick to hail a possible Man Utd recovery. My view at Old Trafford was:
1. Has to be said, the stadium is just not Premier League quality. The way the seats are jammed in makes everyone massively uncomfortable. The concourses, particularly at half time, are dangerously overcrowded. The place looks like it’s falling to bits. Made me actually miss The London.
2. Moyes has got to go. Please. I will not stop saying it. He should have gone 18 months ago. Our players are good, they are just smothered by Moyes’ negative set up and instructions. No striker again. And whilst I’d rather no striker than Danny Ings, if Mubama doesn’t get a chance now he will never get one and might as well leave. It is obviously that we are told just not to concede and to hope that a half chance goes our way. There is no way the likes of Paqueta, Kudus and Bowen should have to put up with this and I worry about our ability to keep hold of them, let alone attract more players in that quality bracket, with this man in charge. Thank god the talk of another 2 and a half year contract has died down.
3. Man U were awful. Somehow we had probably the most possession of any game this season home or away, and had 22 shots to their 8. With Paqueta and Antonio we might have been the ones winning 3–0. Emerson and Bowen missed clear one on ones and we looked a threat at every set piece with JWP. And we had no clear plan and were toothless. Strangely the OT crowd only groaned a few times at the endless stream of misplaced passes and failure to have any consistent impact of threat in the final third (yes, I know what the score was).
4. I’d take Pochettino in a heart beat. He has been nothing short of a disaster this season, but I’d much rather take the gamble that he would prefer to do more with less and shape his own side with us than his current strange position.
5. At least City won’t try to insult us by offering Philips in part exchange for Paqueta this summer. No. Thanks. (They are totally going to do that aren’t they…)
Mike, WHU