Messi has played it safer than Ronaldo? What nonsense!
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Messi – tarnished legend?
I used to live in New York. I lived there for 6 years and had the time of my life. I made lifelong friends there, met my future wife there and made many of my favourite life-memories there. After leaving in 2014, I revisited 5 years later with our group of pals that we lived with. We looked forward to going back to all our old haunts and making new memories there. However, now when I think of my time in New York, I think more of my most recent visit which – great as it was – wasn’t the life-highlight that it was when I lived there. I tell you this because this is what I think will happen with our memory of Messi if he moves to a new club.
I think that if he moves, he tarnishes the memory all football fans will have of him slightly and that is a real shame. It’s clearly not his fault that Barca are in this financial mess, but why not make his legend absolutely unimpeachable by staying on and helping his club. And it really is his club – as he perhaps symbolises a club more than any player ever has. Every football fan on earth will immediately think of Messi when they think of Barcelona, and vice versa. I’m sorry to say but for me, Jeff, playing a single minute for any other club will damage his legacy.
Forgive my ignorance of football and commercial contracts etc; I’m sure there are complications I am not aware of, but serious question: could Messi not just stay on and play for Barcelona for free? Or even for just a nominal fee (say, a ‘measly’ million a year or something similar). He does not need to the money. Several generations of Messi’s will now not need the money. Would it not be great, for all of football, ney, for all of humanity if he stayed on for actual love of his club?G.West
Messi has nothing to prove
I see we’re back into “wet Tuesday night in Stoke” territory with Lee’s email. Messi apparently has played it safe, and never proved himself because he never played in the Premier League. What nonsense.
Imagine you’re Messi. You are playing for the club of your dreams. You are adored by the fans. You’re playing for one of the greatest teams in history. You challenge for the Champions League or the League every season. Why on earth would you trade that in to go to Man City, Chelsea or United? To prove to Lee that he has what it takes to play in England?
I think he’d probably say he’s done that. 30 games against English opposition, 22 goals and 6 assists. All those 30 games of course were in the Champions League, so only ever playing against the top 6 in England. I’d say he’s done enough to make the case that he’d have had a hatful more if he were playing against Norwich, Burnley or Sheffield United.
On top of that, the idea that Ronaldo is a better player because he has played in different leagues makes no sense to me. Messi started at the club he always wanted to play for. Ronaldo didn’t. If Ronaldo had signed for Real Madrid instead of Man United at the age of 18, do you honestly think he would have handed in a transfer request to ‘test himself’ in the Premier League? Not a chance. He moved to Real Madrid because it was a step up. And if Messi is playing it safe by joining PSG, then what do you call moving to Juventus, who had hoovered up all domestic honours in Italy for the 7 years before he arrived? It’s exactly the same scenario.
Messi never ‘played it safe’. He played at the absolute top level of football for over a decade and a half. He has nothing to prove to anyone.
Mike, LFC, London
That is such a tired, short sighted, load of nonsense to suggest Messi has played it safe his whole career, and he can’t be judged properly because he hasn’t played in England.
Messi’s record against English teams in the Champions League: Played 34 – Scored 26.
That is nearly the equivalent of an entire season playing against the absolute cream of the crop, the best England has to offer, and him still bagging nearly 30 goals. But, oh no, he needs to play against West Brom Southampton for us to reeeallllly judge him the little con artist. Ridiculous.
In relation to Ronaldo (and others) who do move throughout their careers and win things,.. erm, so what? Do you think Ronaldo was ‘playing it safe’ when he left Sporting Lisbon for a Fergie era Manchester United? I tell ya what, that move to Real Madrid was crazy, how did he expect to win anything there the chancer! And then Juventus with their 400 straight Serie A titles or whatever it is, what a risk! Everything on the line with that move…. Give me a break.
That’s what the best players do. They play for the best teams. Messi loved Barca, Barca loved Messi. Why move?
Maradona maybe the last truly, truly world class player you could consider to take a risk on a career move with Napoli and it come good.
I shan’t hear it anymore. The man is a footballing God. Possibly the best ever. Definitely better than Ronaldo.
If you’re English and you stay at one club, and win loads (Giggs, Scholes, Gerrard etc) you’re lauded as a loyal legend. If you’re foreign, then shame on you, you should’ve come to England. The hypocrisy is mind boggling.
It’s crazy how much we’ll miss this guy when he’s gone. Good luck to him wherever he goes.
Floyd Harvey
To paraphrase Liverpool’s owners What are you smoking Lee??!! Your analysis of the reasons why Messi has played it safe is myopic in the extreme.
The use of human growth hormone on someone who was Messi’s height when the treatment started (4’2″) is not going to result in increased muscle mass as it did with Lance Armostrong or other adults. It results in muscle mas that is comparable to an average male. The only asterisk this should have is how Messi overcame a life threatening condition to become an elite athlete.
Yes Messi played under Guardiola and in one of the best teams ever. However, he also broke into the team in 2004, the same team that contained Ronaldinho, Deco, Etoo, Larsson, Giuly. This was 4 years before Guardiola took charge. I would flip it and ask wasn’t Guardiola the lucky one to inherit a team with a huge number of generational talents and Messi on top? Would Guardiola still have the same record of success if he had managed….Atletico for example? An argument can be made.
Then we get the usual limited, cant see beyond the EPL idiots who still think a wet Wednesday at Stoke is the biggest test any player can face. If you look at goals versus the top 6 in the English Premier League, Messi is ahead of Kane, Aubamayang and only 2 behind Ronaldo, and Messi only ever played the best teams in the EPL, not the weak teams like the others. The list of names Lee lists (Shevchenko etc al) who failed all came when they were past their peaks, not on an upward trajectory (like Suarez or Ronaldo).
Now for Ronaldo, going everywhere and scoring and never playing it safe…of course it is really challenging to play for Man Utd, Real Madrid and Juventus (the most successful clubs in their respective leagues). Appreciate his genius and don’t let your Ronaldo tinted glasses make you question how good the greatest of all time is.
Kav
To suggest Messi has played it any safer than Ronaldo throughout his career is a fallacy. While, yes Messi has stayed in the same city, at the same club in the same country for his career, it doesn’t necessarily make it the safe option. Take these recent seasons of Barcelona as an example. They have struggled, and failed to reach the heights that both the club and Messi himself expects, yet he has persevered. Sure, mentally he might feel comfortable in familiar surroundings, but it hasn’t been safe on the pitch. He could have moved to a Man City, a Juventus or a Bayern to guarantee some more trophies when his well ran dry, but he hasn’t. He stayed – albeit with a minor transfer request. He chose to try and win with the club he wanted to win with rather than choosing to win regardless.
Ronaldo, however, it could be argued has played it equally safe. Man United, Real Madrid, and Juventus. All top clubs in their country, all expected to win trophies in their respective countries, – if not Europe too – with or without Ronaldo. Sure, he has been bloody brilliant at all of those clubs, but remove him, and the expectation still remains. Of course, moving countries can be difficult on a personal level, but I think the more financial resources you have (and being at the top of the game means Ronaldo’s resources are considerable) the easier it is to adapt. For the record, neither player has played it safe in my opinion, I just think the two best players in the world have chosen different career paths.
Also, to argue “what if this happened?”, “what if that happened?” is a bit pointless, and could easily be argued at any player, even Ronaldo. What if SAF wasn’t Man United manger, would Ronaldo still be stepping over the ball ad infinitum? What if Zidane never managed Madrid, would he have all those Champions League trophies? What if Arsene Wenger had signed both players like he said he almost did, would Arsenal still be fourth? Of course if something else happened, Messi’s career would be different, because he would have had a differnet career. You can make the argument, in the same way you could argue he would have won more trophies playing for Celtic. Similarly, with the HGH treatment. Sure, Messi may not have been a footballer without it, but he would never have gotten the treatment without being really bloody good at football. Barcelona agreed to pay for the monthly treatment where others wouldn’t because of his talent and potential talent. Without that, there is no treatment.
And just for the trifecta of disagreeing entirely with your mail, you can absolutely level complaint at Messi for his wages. Sure, he has made Barcelona lots, and lots, and lots of money, and deserves his fair share of it. But he is 100% being selfish, because he is leaving them over money. You don’t cry because you’re leaving the club you love and don’t want to leave, when they can’t afford to keep you because your wage demands are too high. Like, fair enough, he thinks he deserves the money, and probably does deserve it (within the context of all the money if the game, and how much he brings into it). But he is already rich beyond his wildest dreams, and will still make millions from advertising alone. If he really, really wanted to stay at Barcelona, why not just agree to stay at an affordable wage?
Oh, and I almost forgot. To add a tiny asterisk to Messi’s name because he never played in the Premier League is complete and utter nonsense, and such anglocentric bullshit. I can think of a plethora of world class players who never played in the Premier League (Buffon, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Lewendowski, Totti, Zidane, Ronaldo – and that’s literally just a few), but because they didn’t prove themselves in England, they’re not as good as Michu?
Néill, Ireland
There’s really not such an interesting conversation to have about Messi’s career. It’s only interesting if you’re ignorant of the facts, and instead cherry pick a narrative that ignores facts that don’t quite fit in with it. To go through the key points:
“You can start with the use of human growth hormone to cure his dwarfism…”: Let’s. Any credible account of the treatment he had confirms that it was in no way a performance enhancer. At best, it got him closer to being a “normal” human, in physical terms. He had already scored over 500 goals in Argentina before he began the treatment, and indeed he was still significantly weaker than his peers until around 2004, at which point he overhauled his gym regimen to improve his muscle mass. Indeed, he continue to suffer from repeated long term injuries until much later in the decade, where his training and dietary plans were once again overhauled. There is no asterisk here.
“What if he didn’t happen to play for Barca at the time they had the greatest coach in history, with the greatest team in history when there was little competition”: The hyperbole and limited snapshot here is clearly biased. Guardiola only managed Barcelona frok 2008-2012. Given Pep’s repeated failures to win on the biggest stage without Messi, it’s arguable that he needed Messi much more than it being the other way around. Pep’s also played it very safe with only managing the best placed clubs of each league he’s gone to post-Barca, and still failed in the Champions League. What about the others Messi played under, how have they done after Messi? Rijkaard, Vilanova, Gerard Martino, Luis Enrique, Valverde, Setien, and Koeman. None of those would be in the top 20 managers in the world. Yes, for a time Barcelona were the best team in the world, but Messi was arguably the key reason for it, and the only reason Barca have remained competitive despite their dreadful appointments and transfers is because of him.
“I think it’s a shame he never tested himself in England.”: If Messi csme to England, he’d have played for one of the top clubs. He might have failed as other top foreigners have, then again he might have succeeded as some of the best ever Premiership players have shown – Aguero, for example. Would he have done any worse for Man City than him? It’s silly to speculate on how he would have done in a Premiership dominated by a handful of huge clubs, as chances are he simply would have enhanced one of them even further. His record against top 6 English clubs is 26 goals and 6 assists in 34 appearances. Ronaldo’s is 28 goals and 8 assists in 79 matches, less than half the goal to game ratio. There’s no way of knowing if he’d have done better or worse had he moved to England, but there is no concrete evidence to suggest he would struggle.
“Ronaldo is the better player of this generation because the dude went everywhere and won everywhere and at every level.”: The irony in talking about playing it safe when Ronaldo has only ever gone to the greatest clubs of all time every league and played under some of the greatest managers of all time. He’s been managed by Sir Alex Ferguson, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Zidane, Allegri, Benitez, Sarri, Pellegrini, and Pirlo. Is there any comparison between those who have managed him Vs those who managed Messi? He’s played for the minnows of Man Utd, Real Madrid, and Juventus, each respectively the most successful clubs in their league, and the one time he went head to head in a league with Messi, he was never quite able to usurp him at the dominant force in world football. By no metric did Ronaldo outperform Messi during their times in La Liga, and even in Classico head to heads Messi and Barcelona’s head to head stats are all either slightly, or greatly, in Messi’s favour, and Real had their own abundance of talents at the time.
Messi never left, no matter how many idiotic choices Barcelona made, and their decline in recent years to the point that perhaps nonithee major club in world football is as much a one man team. Any Barca fan will tell you that they without Messi, Barca have been abysmal over the last few years. He’s established himself as the Michael Jordan of football in a way, whilst Ronaldo is perhaps the LeBron, winning before moving and trying to have another super team built around him.
“Messi played safe his whole career and will finish in safety in Paris too.”: No. Messi played for the club he loved his whole career, during some of which they were the best, during the rest of which he’s the only reason they remained in contention. The extent to which he’s dragged Barcelona from mediocrity to brilliance won’t be appreciated until time passes and history can truly reflect. To somehow condemn him for not being a mercenary, for not jumping around left and right, is a very specific lens through which the facts are considered. That Barca can’t allow him to remain a one club man is a disgrace if their doing, and that Paris are probably the only club who can afford him is not his fault either. Possibly the best player of all time, he remains ambitious, and I hope the final chapters of his career will continue to reflect his genius and show how even amongst the very best, he remains a level apart.
Soheil
Messi’s next club
PSG- Most likely as they have the most money, they have a star studded squad and their are desperately pushing to win the Champions League. Messi is too, so it is a good fit. Only caveats are the Ligue 1 quality and the fact a front three of Neymar, Mbappe and himself will not do too many hard yards defensively, may be a concern.
Man City- Man City will probably find it challenging to sign him along with the current English duo. That said, they are not afraid to break FFP so it’s on the cards. Playing with Pep in a team most likely to win the Champions League is a bonus. Playing for a team without much of the illustrious history of some of their contemporaries may dissuade him.
Chelsea- Abramovich is no stranger to icon strikers and although Lukaku is on his way back, you can’t rule them out. They have a lot to sell and could probably afford him. Living in London with a championship team would have appeal. Only bad thing I can think of is that if Mendy is out, Messis goals will have Kepa to keep them as an advantage.
Man Utd- The Glazers have shown recently that signing the games best, on a free, even if slightly aged, can bring you a championship. A la Tampa Bay Buccaneers et Tom Brady. Utd could raise the funds as seeing as Sancho was last summers signing, this summer, meaning we have only spent 40m from this years budget. Martial off to Inter with Messi to replace him(Here’s hoping he could fill those boots). Utd could market the hell out of Messi and increase his exposure(somehow). He could be given the glorious number 7(Sorry Cavani). Would he want to work with Ole? Would he think Utd could win? Could Lionel Messi take the place of Messi Lingard? Only one way to find out.
Inter- Recently I thought, Na, no way. But after their sales and with news of Martinez’s potential transfer to Spurs to replace Kane, they will have 220m to cover 80m of debt. Plenty of Messi money and what a signing to appease your angered fans. It would create the Messi-Ronaldo rivalry again. But working with Inzaghi and a depleted Inter side may not be the swansong he had envisioned.
Juve- No idea where they would find the funds. Maybe sell DeLigt to Chelsea and fund him that way. But the prospect of Ronaldo and Messi together would be mouthwatering. I’m not sure how functional, but for sure, interesting. Or he could wait a year for Ronaldo to join him at PSG as Mbappe’s replacement.
Bayern- Just thought I’d throw them out there.
Real- You wouldn’t- but please try.
Inter Miami/LA Galaxy- They could probably raise the necessary funds, and it’s probably the destination, but he is far far too good to be there now.
Boca Juniors/River Plate- I’m not convinced, he is convinced of the safety in Argentina when compared with his other offers. Plus, why attempt to increase or decrease God status once achieved.
Stoke City- Can he do it on a rainy Tuesday night in Stoke? If he thought winning the Copa America would finally put the debate of his greatness to bed, he was wrong..
Spurs/Arsenal- LOL
So in conclusion, it really looks like Chelsea or most likely PSG to me. I hope United give the rains back to Woodward for a week and let him get that Big player boner he used to get and get Messi over to Manchester.
Calvino (Reperesting!)
Messi cost more than just his wages
I see a lot of journalists quoting the figure that even without Messi, Barcelona would be paying out 95% of income in wages. Whilst this is no doubt true, they’re not looking at why that is. The answer to that is Messi.
Because Messi was earning a million quid a week, new signings were able to use that figure as a negotiating tool for their own contracts. Griezmann ended up earning 600k, double what he would’ve earned anywhere else. So you can say that Messi’s wage is one million, but his cost to Barcelona is 1.3 million. When you look at all the other players who were paid over the odds for the same reason, the true cost of Messi becomes a lot clearer.
Barcelona were so scared of losing Messi that they’d pay him whatever he wanted. He only had to flutter his eyelashes elsewhere and they’d offer him a new deal.
People will reply to this saying Barcelona paid him what he was worth to them. No. They paid him what he told them to pay him to keep him.
He’s bled the club dry and people are sympathetic of his tears? It’s not sympathetic, it’s pathetic.
PeteB
Adíos Leo
As part of my degree, I lived in a small town near Barcelona for work experience. My boss had a friend who part owned a private box in Camp Nou and this guy and his mates would sell tickets to the games they couldn’t attend. So I had the enormous luck to see Messi do this.
It remains, and will forever remain the greatest sporting moment of my life, topping even the under 11s league and cup double I did with my local team, Geraldines.
To Lee, who this morning suggests there could be an asterix next to Messi’s career because of his receiving HGH. Man, be grateful he got it and we were able to watch him. Your question is just bizarre. Also, him never playing in England raises doubts? Standard nonsense. By that logic, Ronaldo’s entire career post United is questionable as he went to play in so called easier leagues. Messi has 120 Champions League goals that tell us the nationality of opposition is irrelevant.
As for his PSG move, while I’m sure we all wanted to see him tearing it up against Scunthorpe or whoever to finally prove that he’s quite good, in my view he’s earned the right to do whatever the fuck he wants.
Alan
A team acting like a country
What the MLS in the USA is to football, and what the Chinese Super League in China was trying to be to football, is now what PSG are to football.
A last stop cash cow before retirement.
Calvino
Bale to Spurs…
I don’t understand with these stats why Spurs are not desperate to have Bale back.
One goal every 83.9 minutes compared to Kane’s 134.2. Isn’t that a no brainer. Why did everyone say he didn’t have a great season last year!! Not his fault if he had brainless manager.
Robert R
A mailbox apology!
I was one of the several mailbox contributors that proclaimed Messi would 100% end up staying at Barca. Now I feel like a Sun columnist, or similar Mediawatch victim with yet another wrong exclusive. I feel dirty and I can only apologise!
Next prediction: Pochettino won’t make it to Xmas. If he even drops even a point with that starting 11, he’s gone! To think they’ll have got Messi, Donnarumma, Ramos and Wijnaldum on a free is mental, plus Hakimi fairly cheap in today’s market. Will be quite funny if/when they get knocked out the Champions League.
Graeme, Glasgow
Re: Chris, NZ Saints fanI’m intrigued by the idea that “It is important to realise that when a club sells a player, they pay out the remainder of that player’s contract to the player”.Yet, I cannot find anything online to back this up. I’m aware that if a player requests a transfer, they lose any potential loyalty bonus/payment, but in terms of their day to day salaried contract, Google has thrown up a blank.Can any readers help?
Joe
Is Chris NZ confusing the loyalty/ signing bonus (which is paid over the length of the contract), and the player’s wages? Yes this is based on playing Football Manager.
Submitting a transfer request means forfeiting the loyalty bonus (as you’ve not been loyal).
The transfer fee is compensation for the club to agree to prematurely terminate the player’s contract. The player doesn’t have to, but will if they are happy to leave for the contract terms offered by the new club.
Richard M
