Why Liverpool had a better season than Arsenal while Man Utd were ‘amazing’

Liverpool and Harvey Elliott have won more trophies than Arsenal and Bukayo Saka over the last three or four years. So who’s doing better?

Send your views on all matters Premier League – and the England squad – to theeditor@football365.com

Liverpool had a better season than Arsenal
I would argue Liverpool had a more successful season than Arsenal. A trophy means a place in history and a Carabao is greater than a second place.

Saka made his debut in November 2019. He has won 1x FA Cup and 2x Community Shields.

Harvey Elliott made his Liverpool debut in September 2019. He has won 1x Prem league, 1x FA Cup, 2x League Cups, 1x Community Shield, 1x Euro Super Cup, and 1x Club World Cup.

If we drop the Community Shields and Super Cups as they are not a traditional competition, Elliott is a better winner than Saka, four trophies to one.

And this represents a wider point about Arsenal. Since the Wenger era they have celebrated mediocrity. Who remembers the squad photos in the changing rooms when they finished 4th. The same can be said now from the cringey black and white video they put out about always believing when they had to rely on others to fail, to Odegaard camera antics and general noise from AFTV. One European cup winners trophy and one inter cities fairs cup and they think they are a European giant. Porto are bigger in Europe than Arsenal.

I didn’t mean for this to turn into a hatchet job in Arsenal, I genuinely wanted them to win and have enjoyed them this season. Arteta is a fantastic manager who will win trophies in his career. It’s just the noise from the corporate side of the club and a few fan channels that spoils it. I guess all clubs have this, maybe Arsenal are just the loudest.

Football is a competition, to decide who is best whether it be a single match, or a whole competition.

Do you think Saka will remember the second-place finishes? Or do you think Harvey Elliot will be happier with his medals as proof of a winner and success.
TJ (If Man Utd win the FA Cup, it’s a better winning season)

MORE ON LIVERPOOL AND ARSENAL FROM F365:
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👉 The F365 Expectations Table ranks every Premier League club from Aston Villa to Man Utd

Getting it right on Arteta
Dave Tickner, take a bow. Your assessment of Mikel Arteta this season was bang on.
Graham Simons, Gooner, Norf London

Talking of Saka…
So I guess Stewie, the Arsenal fan, forgot about the existence of Bukayo Saka? (I imagine you’ll get a few of these emails…)
J, Spurs fan in Yorkshire (for some reason)

…Oh Stewie is writing about Man City this makes a nice change….oh there’s the Arsenal bit.

And he instantly ruins his whole email by saying Arsenal haven’t developed a top quality home grown player since Ashley Cole. I understand the “world class” debate on Saka but I think it’s fair to say he is a top quality local talent, assuming Ealing in London counts as “Local”.

Right, let’s play Stewie Bingo. Presumably something about the Wenger years and how the fans are idiots, how much we have spent when others have managed to win more (an example will be shared, probably Leverkusen), tells us losing to Fulham and West Ham were bad (no s*** Sherlock). If we’re lucky he will say we have had a good season but if we don’t win something next year, Arteta out.

Not bad, I hadn’t thought to use the Barca example though. The pride thing was obvious in hindsight, we can’t be proud and be ambitious for next season at the same time, ridiculous. I would love to know which of our teams in the last 10 years was better, the next highest points total was 79 if we don’t count last season. This was the same worst Bayern team who until the 88th minute were going through to the Champions League final. He managed to squeeze Leicester in, bravo!

Not as bad as normal Stewie, even you can’t deny this Arsenal team is amazing and going places.
Rob A (I am proud and I do want to win something next year) AFC

Actually, were Man Utd really that bad?
As a Manchester United fan I am fully aware that it has been a terrible season in terms of results, in terms of goals conceded, in terms of shots faced and in terms of final position in the league etc. I’m not here to tell people how well Man Utd have done, because they haven’t. We have negative goal difference and that is proof we have not had a good season.

I do want to add some perspective, however, that it has not been as bad as a lot of people make out especially in the media. While I wouldn’t be unhappy if Eric Ten Hag is fired, I do think that there are grounds for him to stay.

And frankly it’s ludicrous that more hasn’t been of it, but our injury crisis this year has been ludicrous like turn it up to 11 ludicrous. Manchester United have played 29 or 30 different defences in 38 games, depending on whether you think switching which side Evans and Varane play make it different or just a variant.

And as much as I rate Evans, and I think that Manchester United got rid of him prematurely the first place – no team with aspirations of finishing in the top four should be relying on a 36 year old centre back. So regularly.

Whatever you think of Manchester United no one can seriously claim that a team with a goalkeeper who is new to the country, and new to the league, and new to the team, behind thirty different defences is a recipe for anything other than chaos. Manchester United started the same defence as the game before just 8 times this season. We’ve had injuries to key midfield players, both our strikers, one of whom is always injured the other of whom is in the same boat as Onana.

With the context it’s maybe actually a bit amazing that Fernandes more or less dragged us to 8th. Again I’m not pretending that Manchester United played anything resembling coherent or attractive football, I’m just saying there are very strong mitigating anything in factors and even us finishing eighth actually is pretty amazing in context.
Daniel, Cambridge

📣TO THE COMMENTS! Have Man Utd actually done really bloody well? Join the debate here

Raging about Gordon
Mostly agree with your team of the season apart from 1, can you tell who that is?

You reckon there is a lack of competition but I say Jared Bowen, Yoana Wissa, bukayo saka, Jeremy doku for starters.

Are you the leagues biggest cheat’s agent?

You were right when you didn’t rate him previously, all he’s done has learned how to cheat really well and now you rate him.

I actually think you include him just to annoy me but it’s because of people like him that everyone is looking to scrap VAR.

Let cheats prosper is the message you’re sending so well done for that, and supporting the morons who have caused its downfall.
Fat Man (Learn some morality please)

(Amusing that you think we remember every Mailboxer’s bête noire – and naming actual left-wingers as alternatives might have been an idea. Doku is the only one who should have been considered – Ed)