Liverpool mission should be to ‘knock Real off their f-ing perch’
Manchester United did it to Liverpool in England; why can’t Liverpool become the biggest club in the world and usurp Real Madrid?
Send your views on this and other subjects – but not Trent, we’re sick of Trent – to theeditor@football365.com
The world’s strongest league
It’s not news that English football has clear stylistic differences to that played on the continent. In our green and pleasant land we’ve always tended toward the more physical way of playing. Powerful runners, hard fought duels, more direct play. Whereas in Europe, especially Spain and Italy, technique and passing are more favoured.
Whilst this distinction has always been there both have historically influenced and imitated each other. After English dominance of the European Cup between 1977 and 1982 European football in the 80’s had a more direct style and after the advance of Tiki-taka in the late noughties English football became more possession focused.
Over the last 5-10 years the Premier League has moved back toward a style where physicality is prioritised, probably influenced somewhat by the rise of Gegenpressing and Klopp’s heavy metal style. Thanks to the distribution of wealth every team has been able to invest in quality players which combined with this stylistic shift has ultimately led to a league that is intensely physical from top to (almost) bottom.
When you watch Man United and Spurs in the Europa League they are still troubled by their opponents technical ability and can be played through by organised passing teams. But when they make the game physical, concentrate on long balls, winning ariel duels, quick transitions and runs behind, they completely outmatch what are good quality European sides. United scored 7 goals in 180 minutes against an Athletic team that had only conceded 26 in 35 La Liga games this season. They aren’t any better than Bilbao but they effectively knocked them down and walked over them.
Yet when we see them in the Premier League they are often bullied and harassed to defeat because, though probably possessing players of greater technical quality than many, they have a physical deficiency to almost all other teams. Its not dissimilar to the issue facing Championship sides.
When you think about the players that are excelling in the Premier League most fit a particular theme. Strong, powerful, good ball carriers, hard to dispossess, high work rate, tenacious. Salah, Guimaraes, Rice, Rodgers, Isak, Haaland, Joelinton, Gravenberch, Mbeumo, Semenyo, Munoz. Thus I don’t think it’s a surprise that United have predominantly been linked with transfers of tall physically imposing players like Osimhen, Delap, Cunha, and Ederson. All of whom are adept at carrying the ball under pressure and creating scoring opportunities with driving forward runs. They desperately need more physicality.
Brentford, Palace, Forest, Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham, even Wolves wouldn’t have much trouble competing in the Europa League. Not because the competition is bad but because the Premier League is so uniformly strong, by which I mean actually physically strong and dominating. I don’t think it’s too outlandish to suggest every Premier League team, outside of those relegated, could at least compete for 5th or 6th place in any league on the continent. Its easy to make fun of Premier League ‘bestest league in the world’ branding but I do think its undeniably the world’s strongest.
Dave, Manchester
READ: Who each Premier League club should support in the Europa banter and other three finals and why
Liverpool’s mission: Knock Real Madrid off their f***ing perch
I’ve read with some interest and some boredom the reaction to the Trent booing we have all been debating, my first reaction was amusement, then anger at how could they, “what about YNWA?” then understanding at expressing human motion being an ok thing to do, to asking why our fans did it (local lad, symbol of Liverpool, future captain, leaving for a rival, the way he went about it previously documented) to finally looking at the bigger picture.
The two broad arguments about Trent’s decision are: he is a young man who owes Liverpool nothing and should be allowed go and try himself out at the biggest club in the world vs he is a home grown player who should stick by his boyhood club and look we just won the league and are in great shape so why would you leave.
For me there is something else going on here which hasn’t been put into words yet so pardon by Johnny come lately email. And it starts with another Johnny……cue mysterious music ….
In was circa 2013/14 when your own Johnny Nicholson wrote an article that stopped me dead in my tracks and I have never forgotten (but failed to save so if the nice Ed would pull it from the archives for me I would be eternally grateful.) At the time Liverpool were under the leadership of Brendan Rogers, had narrowly missed out on the league and were bleeding out best players (Sterling, Suarez) and replacing them with utter muck (Balotelli, Lambert,) things weren’t looking good, rival fans were having a good old laugh and well they might.
(Can’t help you, I’m afraid. I do remember the piece but we lost our archive some time in the mid-2010s – Ed)
Johnny though wrote about Liverpool’s ceiling if I recall. On the pre-season tour we had seen mind-blowing crowds emerge around the world for simple friendlies and give stirring renditions of YNWA. Johnny observed that despite Chelsea and City recent and building dominance and in spite of Man United’s then recent two decades of hegemony that Liverpool in his opinion were the club with the highest ceiling in English football. I paraphrase but he said something along the lines of if they get their sh1t together there is no limit to how big this club can be. It has never left me.
Not long after Jurgen arrived and things got a lot more fun for fans but City’s dominance disguised how beg Liverpool were getting, Johnny’s premonition was quietly happening. It hasn’t fully happened yet (two leagues and one Champions League is impressive but in no measure dominance of the league or Europe,) but for me the signs are there that Liverpool could be about to fulfil Johnny’s Nostradamus like vision.
There are many reasons rival fans hate Liverpool, I get it, but the big one we don’t talk about is this, we have the potential not just to be the biggest club in England, we have the potential to be the biggest club in the world, and although rival fans will laugh at that no doubt on some level if frightens the life out of them also.
Why not? Why should Real be the biggest club in the world. We never tire of hearing how the Premier League is the biggest and best league in the world, why shouldn’t it have the biggest and best team in the world also. When one million fans line the streets of Liverpool in two weeks time you will get some sense of how big this is but that’s only the tip of the iceberg.
For every fan lucky enough to be in Liverpool (and with the few thousand it takes to secure flights and accommodation) there are hundreds of millions at home wishing they could be, for who Liverpool is the biggest thing in their lives bar their families and who support them obsessively and have for decades.
Only Man Utd can come close to this level of support in England but unlike them Liverpool have the holy Trinity of excellent whip smart ownership, management and manager. I wrote in April of this year after Klopp’s announcement following Edwards and then Hughes arrival that we would be absolutely fine as a club but the trajectory since has surprised me also (I won’t claim to be the only person on the planet who predicted a league win.)
For me though this comes back to and tells us something about Trent getting booed. He is our local lad, our vice captain, the man who should be symbol of everything this club is and could be and who should get how big this is and that he could stand at the centre of it for the next 6-8 years but instead he is choosing to walk away to one of our biggest rivals. And make no mistake Real are our direct rivals now. Because Liverpool’s ceiling isn’t just about becoming the biggest club in England, our aim as a club should be to become the biggest club in the world, to knock Real off their F-ing perch.
That is the main reason why for me Trent leaving is not ok, he should know this and feel this and believe this like the Kop could last weekend. We’re not content with a couple of league titles we should take the pain of Trent’s departure and make it our mission to knock Real off their f-ing perch in the next 10-20 years. And just like Fergie all those years ago people will scoff and laugh at the idea but we can be done and we have the tools and potential to do it like no other club currently do in world football for different reasons.
Trent leaving is not ok. For me he deserved to be booed. If a similar player tried to leave Real his life would be in danger and they would be burning effigies in the street that’s not ok but it would not be allowed and that’s how players should see Liverpool, if not yet then one day. I for one am done with Real and want them and their shower of preening entitled prima donnas to be our target for the next 5 years. I want Trent to realise what he has turned his back on, I want us to get to double figures for Champions League, to be seen as realistic challenger to Real globally, I want it all and I believe we can get it, even if Trent doesn’t.
Dave LFC
READ: De Bruyne to Liverpool is the perfect p***-boiling transfer to start the summer
Liverpool fans: Not special
Every club, and I mean EVERY club, has its fair share of weapons who are fans. It is a consequence of any large group, there’s always a few bad apples. But as the complete saying goes, ‘a few bad apples, ruin the whole bunch’. So I think we can put to bed the idea that any fan base is great, or special, or better than any other. It’s simply untrue.
The reason rival fans take umbrage with Liverpool fans is they do present themselves as if they are ideologically above others. That their love of their club is greater, that their success means more than any other. That they are somehow pure and chaste and good.
I’m pretty sure there are United fans who could point to occasions when Liverpool fans made derogatory chants about the Munich air disaster. Chants about Hillsborough, Heysel or Munich (which, again so there is no doubt, is an absolutely disgusting thing to chant and mock) are indicative of my original point. I would argue 99% of most fan bases would be ashamed to be involved in such horrific chanting, but the 1% exist and they are usually very loud.
If you don’t want to be held to an unrealistic standard, maybe don’t portray yourself as such. But if you do, then expect to be pilloried when you fall short of that standard. .
John (I booed Xhaka, and he told us to f*** off, which to me feels completely fair) Matrix AFC
Fans mean nothing; deal with it
Watching this Trent-related debate has been fascinating. It reminded me of a thought I had a while back, about how weird the whole relationship between clubs/players and fans is.
If you look at any small or amateur club, it’s just a patch of grass with some people playing on it, who most likely either are happy to just play or see it as a stepping stone and then others cheering from the sidelines. As the club gets bigger or more successful, and more people turn up to watch, then the club will probably provide seating, for which they’ll ask you to pay. As it gets bigger still, more seats, maybe match magazines, hot dogs and drinks. Maybe a coach to away games. Maybe a hotel, a bar, a TV channel.
At some point, maybe after some generations, where people keep returning, the line seems to blur into some weird sense of entitlement or belief they have rights.
Why? We only pay to watch the team play, they owe us nothing and any expectation otherwise is kind of like a Stockholm syndrome. We may express delight or dismay at performances, management, the direction the side is taking, failing to play a favourite player etc – we have a right to voice ourselves – but the literal only reason the club should care is if it causes a loss of revenue.
As for players, most will see the club as either an opportunity to win and develop or a stepping stone to bigger things. As fans, it may hurt to see a player consider themselves separate from the club, or want a change, or more pay (god forbid they work for money, like us), or a chance at more success and trophies. Hell, even just better weather. If you’ve worked anywhere for very long, you’ll know that your best chance of getting better pay or more development and appreciation is to leave for somewhere new.
But the simple fact is, those players – as with the clubs – owe YOU as a fan absolutely nothing at all.
Deal with it.
Badwolf
Facts innit
Someone has probably pointed this out already, but anyway:
Liverpool’s 20 league titles have been won by 10 different managers: Tom Watson, David Ashworth, Matt McQueen, George Kay, Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan, Kenny Dalglish, Jurgen Klopp and Arne Slot.
United’s 20 league titles have been won by 3 different managers: Ernest Mangnall, Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson.
This probably says a lot about the difference between the two clubs, but I can’t be bothered to figure out what it is.
Robert, Birmingham
An Everton fan writes…
I can’t speak for all Evertonians, but I’d imagine we’d much rather watch our club win than watch Liverpool or any other team lose. I mean that’s the whole point, right? To win. That doesn’t mean I’m above some pettiness hoping Liverpool lose when they play. I can’t imagine a scenario where I’d rather Liverpool lose than Everton win.
Also, someone check on Will. I’m genuinely worried that the rich old white guy that just bought my club might, heaven forbid, get us to winning ways again. Can’t be having that.
TX Bill (been awhile) EFC
Women died at Hillsborough too
Hi Minty – Christine Anne Jones (27), Julie Ann Flannigan (18), Paula Ann Smith (26), Sarah Louise Hicks (19), Victoria Jane Hicks (15), Ingrid Maria Jones (25), Tracey Elizabeth Cox (23). The seven women and daughters who died during Hillsborough. Please show some respect to their names and perhaps refrain from using a tragedy to win an argument about booing a player.
Emily, Liverpool FC (Figo had a pig’s head thrown at him when he left for Madrid – we’re pretty mild in comparison)
Never ever
Interesting missive from Dene McLeod, claiming that ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ may only apply for a finite length of time. One of the words would indicate otherwise, Dene, you silly sausage.
Alex Stokoe, Newcastle upon Tyne
…Just stopped laughing to reply to Dene McLeod, that he may have missed the meaning of the word NEVER in YNWA. Never means not today, not tomorrow, not EVER. You will NEVER walk alone. Not just walk till you walk with us, and then you are alone. It’s not that you will never walk alone till you are with Liverpool. It’s a definitive statement that their club supporters harp at every given opportunity, yet don’t follow for most of their life. It’s a joke. And what’s even more hilarious is fans like Dene who don’t even recognize the meaning behind it.
It’s not for “world peace”, but it’s a promise made to your players, owners, fans, and everyone at Liverpool that no matter what, we will always be together and have each other back. And Trent, a Liverpudian and part of Liverpool FC since the age of 6, dressed in a Liverpool kit, coming on in front of the Liverpool fans as a Liverpool player, gets roundly booed.
Even with your flawed logic, you shouldn’t be booing a Liverpool player playing for the team as champions now should you? At least wait till he is in Madrid colors! Your anthem is a marketing phrase & nothing more.
Aman
Celebrate good times…come on
To be fair to the new bloke at United, a BBQ seems to be about the right response to winning the Europa League. Especially in a season where you also end up around 14th in the league.
Having given this over 2 mins thought, here are the correct ways to celebrate by trophy if you’re new broom of efficiency sweeping through a bloated premier league club.
Win the league: Lavish party at the most fashionable & glamourous club in the City, with a superstar DJ on the decks.
Win the Champions League: Lavish party at the most fashionable & glamourous club in the City, with Rio Ferdinand on the decks.
Win the FA Cup: Dinner in a nice local restaurant. House wine only, starter or a pudding but not both.
Win the Europa league: BBQ at the training ground.
Win the League Cup: Jim’s getting Maccies – order what you want but no happy meals they’re a waste of money.
Win the Europa Conference: There’s some bagels in the canteen, help yourselves but don’t take any for home.
Any billionaires about to take over a football club and run it with a combination of hubris and a stubborn refusal to learn any lessons, are very welcome to cut out and keep this handy guide.
Jeremy Aves