Keane nonsense on Gabriel and Arteta proved he is ‘cooked’ as Arsenal revel in being ‘hated again’

Editor F365
Arsenal defender Gabriel
Gabriel just wanted it more

The Arsenal v Manchester City reaction is going to run and run, taking in Roy Keane and the mere concept of injury time and red cards as the latest victims.

Send your thoughts to theeditor@football365.com.

 

We’re back, baby!
Really interesting to see all the noise come out of the Man City players after the game yesterday, conversely we’ve heard barely a peep from any Arsenal player, or at least nothing that fanned the flames of a bitter contest. Man City players have been queuing up to whine to the media about dark arts, dirty tricks, feigning injury, not trying to win.

We have Bernardo Silva claiming Arsenal injured Rodri, Akanji telling everyone Arsenal always park the bus against them (unbeaten in 4 against them so whatever it is its working) and Haaland with no hint of irony after his petulant ball throw at Gabriel telling Arteta to ‘stay humble’ at the end of the game.

The only conclusion we can take from all this – City’s players are absolutely rattled and scared of Arsenal.  They do not react like this to anyone else even in 1 off games.  Back in the day the only thing worse than Fergie’s insults was his compliments as it meant you weren’t a threat.We can set aside the absolute bare faced cheek of City to be complaining about dark arts and cheating when they’ve been the league chief exponents of these tactics for years and are the ones currently facing 115 charges for flagrant cheating of the rules.

Anyway, Arsenal v Man City has the hallmarks of a genuine rivalry where the teams actually hate each other.  Liverpool v City was far too friendly, both complimenting each other so much.  This kind of bitter rivalry is what the league has missed for years – yesterday was completely absorbing and enthralling for anyone who watched.
Rich, AFC 

 

Sorry, you probably don’t want more on City v Arsenal, but Calv (Mancunian exile in Paris) longing for their ‘rivalry’ with Liverpool is funny to me.

Breaking down his gripes from Sunday, firstly “Their histrionics”. The game began with Havertz jogging in a straight line, Rodri ensuring he blocked him off and going down for over a minute in an attempt to get him carded immediately. Miraculously, he was fine.

Kicking the opposition. I would argue the two biggest clashes (physically) were Haaland on Saliba and Haaland on Partey. Perhaps not kicking, but if those weren’t acts of trying to throw a physical marker down, I don’t know what is. ,

Kicking the ball away. Ah yes, the only club that does this one, famously. In the 0.8 seconds (according to Sky) that Trossard had between committing a foul (and actually, I’d much prefer this decision if he’d been booked for that) and booting it away, he literally doesn’t have time to change his action. Now, I’m not absolving him completely – given the Rice incident, the whole club should be much more smart here – but he also probably thought that given Michael Oliver had let Szobslai boot the ball over to Goodison last week, he might be ok. It’s subtle, but Bernardo dribbled the ball ten yards from where we had a free kick given ourselves. They. All. Do. It.

Fake injuries. Spurs, Atalanta and City within a week, on a day less rest having travelled back from Italy. Timber and Martinelli both went off after their injuries – how do we know they were fake? Given that schedule, and Timber’s lengthy absence recently, cramp is on the table I’d expect. The Timber one required stronger refereeing – he should’ve made him go down or off and get treatment, so the crowd being worked up was justified. But I refer you back to Rodri after five seconds if faking injury is a problem for you.

Timewasting. I mean yeah obviously. We’re 2-1 up away to the best team in the country, who’ve not lost in two years; who’ve not dropped A SINGLE POINT since we were last in town. And we’re down to ten men and have been for (by now) over half the game. Not timewasting would be stupid, quite frankly. Imagine how naïve Arsenal would be being labelled today if they’d been trying to take quick restarts and getting caught high up the pitch and out of shape.

We simply do not have the attacking power of Salah and Mane and Firmino in their pomp. We cannot go to City and play 100mph and beat them that way. But my word, for a 30 minute period from our equaliser to the end of the first half, we had them on the ropes. Who knows what would’ve happened with XI on the pitch – we certainly wouldn’t have retreated quite like we were forced to. But sadly we will never know, so we had to pivot and play this way. And it was literally seconds for working perfectly.

So, they didn’t like it, and Haaland’s reaction told us as much. We’re annoying, we’re frustrating, we don’t come with our legs open and pants down anymore. Thankfully, Haaland was so riled up that he cost City a potential final attack where we’d really have been bricking it.

A good point, an excellent week and now some home games where we can hopefully find some attacking verve again in games where we’ll be expected to take the initiative.

Arsenal are not perfect but actually, I am delighted we are hated again as opposed to being completely irrelevant.
Joe, AFC, East Sussex

 

Rival fans cheering our opposition
Rival fans judging our football as not being good enough
Pundits finding any stick they can to beat us with
Arsenal grinding out results against ‘better teams’
Our manager boiling the piss out of everyone!

I dunno about other Gooners, but for me, Arsenal are back baby! I grew up with George Graham teams, so defence first is ALRIGHT by me! The current Great Wall of Arsenal is as good as the Graham defense, personally I think it is stronger than the Invincibles defence, and I love them for it.

We also get the added fun of actually being David to City’s Goliath. I don’t know why rivals want City to continue to dominate the farmer’s league the Premier League has become, surely you’d want the non state funded, non rule breaking team to win? Apparently not, and you know what, good. Your tears are delicious.

The fact that Arsenal fans felt like they’d lost at the final whistle, away from home to City, tells me we are doing just fine, and are miles ahead of where we’ve been in previous seasons. Enjoy your middling football teams who play middling football. We haven’t even played that well this season and our strikers objectively stink. And yet in that time we’ve taken points of City, Villa and Spurs away. Can’t wait till we hit some form and our strikers do their job.
John Matrix AFC

MORE ON MAN CITY V ARSENAL FROM F365
👉 Arsenal ‘have the measure of the champions’; how dare ‘soft’ Pep be happy?
👉 16 Conclusions on Man City 2-2 Arsenal: A quite ridiculous end to a quite ridiculous game
👉 Man City receive dire Rodri injury update with Guardiola favourite ‘out for significant period’

 

Keane as mustard
I think Roy Keane is cooked. He used to be the fun, grumpy uncle, who said it like it was and you may have groaned but it wass hard to disagree with.

Fast forward to now, and you have a man who says Gabriel scored from his corner because he wanted it more. Like, you do know we have the best set piece coach in the business and we have focused our training to target team’s weaknesses in this space over the last 3 years?

He told Arteta to ‘have some class’ which is the largest case of pot calling a kettle I’ve ever seen. The man who broke another player’s leg with pure malice. The man who would routinely surround and abuse referees and opponents alike. No offense, but I’m not taking lessons in class from a man who did these things, AND was an awful football manager.
John Matrix AFC

 

Dark arts
Can I just say how absolutely delicious it is to hear City’s players complain about the dark arts?  The team of Mateo “bite your ankles” Kovacic.  The team of WWE’s very own Rodri.  The team of Daniel San Doku.  It nourishes my soul.  The incident they’re complaining about?  Raya going down for a bit so Arsenal can get information onto the pitch.  The horror.  Nasty, nasty Arsenal.  How dare Arsenal break up City’s rhythm by doing what City do to break up everyone else’s rhythm?  Surely City should have no complaints though given how refs are all about the letter of the law though?  No free kick, no foul?

Do you think Michael Oliver allowed the quick free kick for the equaliser because he didn’t want to book himself for delaying the restart?

Why was Oliver telling Doku where Arsenal should be taking their free kick from?  That was weird right?

It’ll be interesting to see if the PGMOL take retrospective action on Haaland for throwing the ball at Gabriel’s head.  I don’t care either way as it wasn’t exactly assault but can you honestly say that they’d ignore it if the shoe was on the other foot?  Letter of the law for one but not the other is simple bias.
SC, Belfast

 

Impeding other player is a foul. Arsenal’s players deliberately impede Ederson at every corner kick. And they eventually managed to score a goal from that tactic.

Why did the ref give the goal? It should have not been awarded, as it is a clear foul. A deliberate act to gain unfair advantage. Law XII.

And nobody said anything about it.

Is the ref biased against Arsenal? Or, is the ref biased against Man City?

I believed the ref is not biased against nobody. The ref is just not up to par.  He failed in carrying out his duties. He failed both sides. And this is the problem. No consistency.

The refs are the one bringing the game into disrepute.

Dear Refs, just follow the rule book. Mete out everything accordingly, follow the letter of the law all the time. Keep out of the spotlight and not try to be the subject of the after-match discussion.

Do your job properly. And most of us fan will be happy.

Best regards,
KR Penang.

 

Conspiracy
So. One of the most predictable reactions from the most insecure, immature and self-centred support base in the country.

“It’s a conspiracy!” is the cry from the coffee houses of Islington, as they picture imaginary referees blowing whistles from behind non-existent grassy knolls.

Yes, the sending off looked soft, but the second yellow card had to be brandished. The Doku incident wasn’t similar. He kicked the ball to where the ref was pointing – the correct place to take the free kick from – not the advanced position that Arsenal wanted to take it from.

This same “corrupt” official didn’t allow Walker to get back into position after calling him over, leading to the equaliser, nor did he book any Arsenal players for their blatant time wasting.

Ah, the time wasting, the fake injuries. Top class housery, but why on Earth are you surprised that this gamesmanship meant that the game went beyond the initial 7 added minutes?

Haaland throwing the ball at Gabriel was not violent conduct, it was a comic highlight.

Just accept that Arteta decided at half time to disregard any attacking element, and in fairness it nearly worked.

But it didn’t. Shame.
Nick, Romford

 

Argue the Tross
Dear Ed,

‘It doesn’t matter that the law is unevenly applied’. Lads, I’ve been reading f365 since someone got rich off the back of it in the 90’s and never before have I read such a boneheaded statement. There is no institution that can operate this way. Schools can’t, and wouldn’t be allowed to, do this. Police and the justice system have to apply laws evenly; there is a rightful and righteous howl of indignation when they don’t. There’s a ton of equality legislation to ensure employers treat people equally. Surely this principle has to apply in football (and all sport) too? I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy for Trossard, but given the time gap between whistle and contact, could the ref not have interpreted like Szoboszlai was last week. (By the same intrepid whistler btw)

Not sure how many times this has been pointed out, but Walker was stood about 10 yards to the right of his centre back when the free kick was taken. About where he should be right? Martinelli never really had that much room and certainly didn’t get past him.

Even though Arsenal have come through a tough week relatively unscathed, we are not playing particularly well. Shorn of Odegaard (and Merino) plus with ESR flown the coup (thank you PSR rules. Maybe some West Ham, Newcastle and Villa fans I know will quit whining…) we’re not moving the ball well through midfield. It’s striking that Raya has been our best player. We need to step up and start creating chances and actually beat teams rather than edge tight ones.

Best
Roscoe P Coltrane (love a bracket)

 

No more injury time
Amongst all the fallout from Man City vs Arsenal, we have a game that somewhat ridiculously ended after 112 minutes. I didn’t watch because City bore the pants of me but I was told by friends that Arsenal had spent the second half time wasting. Honestly, I couldn’t say if 7 minutes was an appropriate  amount of time to add on – I was under the vague recollection that a set amount of time was added on for goals and substitutions, but as with all things refereeing, this does not seem equally applied (like 4 minutes of extra time after Man Utd vs Barnsley with 4 goals and 10 substitutions) and instead seems entirely arbitrary.

It would be infinitely better to just take a lesson from rugby and stop the game when the ball goes out, or when the game is stopped for whatever reason whether its a free kick, a penalty or injury etc. After 90 minutes the ref blows the whistle or waits until the ball goes out of play next. There can be no griping about time added on, it’s not so much subject to human error, it would be a lot more consistent across all games and is a simpler system in principle. It’s such a simple fix I’m honestly sick of arguing about injury time.
Daniel Cambridge.

 

Ten conclusions
A few points.

1) Arsenal fans seem to be mimicking Liverpool in the ‘we are picked on stakes’

2) Trossard clearly kicked the ball away and that is a yellow card.

3) For the Doku incident watch the referee …he is pointing where he wants the free kick to be  taken from and Doku kicks it there.

4) For Arsenal first goal, he calls Walker over but Walker overplaying ‘Mr Captain’ does not get back as quick as he could…so on balance fair.

5) For Arsenal second goal, Walker more interested in poking Gabriel than marking him …unintelligent play

6) For second Arsenal goal Ederson clearly blocked off as a tactic but he shows little strength …but  it was a deliberate block as a planned play and therefore a foul

7) Arsenal defence superb in second half and City fairly clueless in breaking them down

8) A lot of unnecessary aggravation from a number of players, particularly Haaland who should’ve been booked and maybe even sendoff for throwing ball at Gabriel

9) Most teams would have time wasted In the circumstances but Arsenal cannot then moan about added time…it could have been a lot more!

10) A draw a fair result and just too easy to blame the referee when a lot of players culpable for making things hugely difficult.
Stephen

MORE ON MAN CITY V ARSENAL FROM F365
👉 Arsenal ‘have the measure of the champions’; how dare ‘soft’ Pep be happy?
👉 16 Conclusions on Man City 2-2 Arsenal: A quite ridiculous end to a quite ridiculous game
👉 Man City receive dire Rodri injury update with Guardiola favourite ‘out for significant period’

 

Help referees out
Something that I have thought for a while, when are the players going to take responsibility for making a refs very difficult job even harder?

I’m not talking about the bad tackles, kicking the ball away etc but 22 players spending the whole game trying to deceive the ref for every little decision.

Take two examples from the games yesterday, 10 seconds in and we have Rodri holding his face after lightly being run into by Havertz with zero contact to his face. Then there was a minor incident in the Brighton/Forest game. Second half, the Brighton player attempts to cross from the right and the ball goes out behind the goal. Firstly the Brighton player appeals with the usual hand up and shout combo, then after the ref gives a goal kick, he remonstrates with the ref for such a poor decision. As a Forest fan, I thought we’d got away with one, then the reply shows the Brighton player shanking his cross straight out. Not a go at Brighton or that particular playing as this happens multiple times a game for each team.

My point is, that Rodri knew he hadn’t been hit in the face. The Brighton player knew he had kicked it out and it was a goal kick. But they both tried to gain an underserved advantage anyway and sow a little doubt in the refs mind. Everyone is happy to blame the ref for any decision they get wrong but imagine how much easier their jobs would be if every player was completely honest? I know it is part of the game that we accept, but why? Refs are going to make mistakes, no one is perfect, this may include slight inconsistences, maybe because no two incidents are exactly the same but (despite what some fans think), they are the only honest ones on the pitch
James

 

Update: Arsenal fans are still taking it all really well
Dear Editor,

I feel compelled to write in this morning almost against my better judgement given the somewhat reductive nature of football discourse and analysis across many outlets, however, I write in hope of sparking a serious, nuanced discussion about what the point of the rules of any game/sport are, and what the point of a referee (and by extension a refereeing institution) is.

Arsenal Football Club, for 2 of the 5 game weeks have potentially, given the game state in which they have had players dismissed, missed out on 4 points and find themselves 2 points behind the 4 time consecutive champions Manchester City who sit at the top of the table. The actions for which players have been dismissed? Following cautionable offenses for reckless and cynical challenges from Rice and Trossard, respectively, both players received second cautions for delaying restarts. In both cases, according to “the letter of the law” the decision was correct given this season’s IFAB law 12 Fouls and misconduct (https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12—fouls-and-misconduct).

Now, personally, I struggle with this law given that it is both objective, and subjective in its interpretation. For example: It could be argued that any action to move the ball away from the location in which a foul was either committed, or the spot where the referee is happy for the free kick to be taken (subjective), is, objectively, delaying the restart. However, we have seen referees failing to apply the law consistently within the space of a few minutes in a single game, never mind the whole game (never mind the same referee from game to game; never mind different referees from game to game). This is presumably because referees look to impose the law when they feel there has been a significant delay to a restart given the instance’s context; a subjective assessment if you will. This prompts fans to ask, what context causes one instance to be more significant than the other?

For example:

1) 21st minute: Moments before Arsenal equalise Bernado Silva dribbles the ball away from the spot in which the offence was committed. Seemingly crucially, his dribbling action happens fractions of a second after the whistle is blown and despite the ball carrying several yards down the pitch, presumably the referee doesn’t believe the restart has been significantly delayed because he’s about to allow a substitution.

2) 34th minute: Kovacic handles the ball on the halfway-line, almost dead centre between the centre circle and the touchline. Havertz attempts to take a quick free-kick on the touchline, ten yards further towards the City goal. Doku runs directly towards the ball and stands over the prior to a second whistle from the referee. who then points to where the free-kick should be taken. Doku proceeds to kick the ball almost 10 yards into the Arsenal half, beyond Rice who is standing vaguely where the handball offence took place. The ref is visibly frustrated, but urges play to continue…which it does some 10 seconds later. Objectively, there’s clearly been a delay to the restart because of both Havertz and Doku’s actions, but neither action results in a caution; why? The subjective application of the law; what many would say is just common sense.

All three actions (Silva; Doku; Havertz) result in delays, but none are cautioned because the referee likely assumes the actions are…

…either:

_Instinctive reactions or misunderstandings: Silva continues to dribble because he’s a footballer and there’s ball at his feet milliseconds after the whistle is blown; Havertz tries to steal a few yards, or just doesn’t realise where the kick should be taken; Doku runs to stand over the ball because he instinctively wants to delay the restart, or knows the free kick is being taken from the wrong place (even though he then kicks it to the wrong place);

…Or…

_That in every case the delay was not significant, given that for Silva: a substitution was about to be made; Havertz x Doku the delay…well, I don’t know.

READ NEXTSchmeichel accuses Michael Oliver of ‘trying to ruin’ Man City vs Arsenal match

Now onto Leandro Trossard’s first ever red card in league football (yes, I checked,…sound familiar?): During the 53rd minute of the first half the referee blows whilst following a challenge by Trossard on Bernado Silva. Less than 1 second later (0.74 seconds later according to my ipad whilst searching for the incident whilst rewatching the game) Trossard kicks the ball into the space Gabriel Martinelli is advancing into. The ball pitches almost perfectly for Martinelli to run onto. Now to assess the situation based on the same criteria as we have for the instances noted above:

_Did the action delay the restart? Objectively, yes. The ball is now a good distance away from where the offence took place.

_Is the delay significant? Subjectively, who knows?

_Are there subjective, contextual mitigating factors that could have come into play when deciding whether, or not, to caution Trossard, as they apparently did, when choosing not to caution Silva, Havertz and/or Doku? I would argue yes:

1) Trossard strikes the ball approximately 0.74 seconds after the whistle is blown – is this enough time to cancel a passing action? Maybe, so why didn’t the Referee afford Trosard the benefit of any doubt as he did with the other instances during the game?

2) Did Trossard believe the halftime whistle had been blown? A misunderstanding? Maybe, given that the whistle was blown during the 53rd minute of the first half that should have had a minimum of 6 minutes added (45+6= 51). So again why wasn’t Trossard afforded the benefit of any doubt and the letter of the law was applied?

I find the whole thing…curious…given that there have been multiple players that have escaped the application of the “letter of the law” since the start of the new season – statistically  Arsenal are clearly an outlier at the moment. Which is curious when you consider they’ve finished 2nd and 3rd in the fair play league table the last couple of seasons.

However, more importantly, the idea of applying the letter of the law to such a minor infraction seems rather daft. Particularly when you’re in control of adding the time on again. And especially when the same referee was provided cover by the head of the referees, Howard Webb, for not dismissing Kovacic after two successive orange card challenges that very much endangered both Rice and Odergaard’s ankles last season. We’ve also seen goalkeeper’s getting clothlined and two footed jumping challenges either waved away or simply cautioned this season. Are we really equating a few lost seconds (that can be returned) or a potential (but rarely realised) situational advantage to endangering an opponent? Really? And, by extension, do we really want this sort of stuff influencing who will likely become champions? Deary me.

Looking forward to a load of fans partisanly ignoring the core question and jumping on team x because they just don’t like them, as always,
Elo

 

Me again. I’ve read my email back and realised the scientist in me has gotten a bit carried away. I should have just asked a rather simple question:

Why is there such a severe harsh punishment for: such a relatively minor infraction of a law; that is applied so inconsistently, can be judged so subjectively; and remediated so easily?

Thanks
Elo

 

Exactly what a blue card is for
These recent Arsenal red cards, along with the missed cards for Doku & Szoboszlai got me thinking. Wouldn’t it be better if we replace red cards with blue? Does a player really need to sent off for a bit of time wasting, with half the game still to play? 10 mins on the bench should be enough.

In these situations, the refs have to make an on-the-spot choice between giving a card which is too harsh or not giving and coming across as being biased. They are going to get lambasted either way.

Think about it like this. That one action by the ref had more impact on the game between the two best teams in the country than the reigning EPL manager of the season (Guardiola) subbing on the reigning EPL player of the season (Foden). How is it even allowed? The ref should not have this much power.

P.S. I’m not blaming refs, but the rules as they should give the option of a blue card. A red should only be reserved for exceptional circumstances, such as kung fu kicking a player.
Gaurav MUFC Amsterdam

 

Could have killed him
It would appear that a new standard has been set in English Football.

After each goal has been scored it is now permissible to hurl the match ball at the head of an opposing side’s player.

The referee in a match on Sunday took no action whatsoever against the ball thrower. .
Klaus Zirker, Johannesburg

 

Football at the office
I was gonna write in with 5 knee jerk reactions but I’ll leave that to the lovely folks at F365’s Winners and Losers. Instead, I decided to introduce to the mailbox a game my colleagues and I have been playing at the office where we put different premier league era teams against each other and try to guess the score at full time. I’ll drop my 3 picks (if you’re as bored and unserious at work as us feel free to drop yours too):

Man City (11/12) v. Man City (23/24) – 2 – 3

Arsenal (03/04) v Arsenal (24/25) – 3 – 1

Man Utd (12/13) v. Man Utd (16/17) – 2 – 0

Join us on our next lunch break where we share football pet peeves (mine are obviously players who tuck their shirts in and players who don’t wear their socks all the way up).
Philip, Lagos (Office Space is such a good movie)

 

Like old times
Johnny Nic laying into Chelsea…?!

We must be on the way up – it’s like summer of 2003 all over again.

What next, players doing post match in Von Dutch caps?
Lawrence (who now has to say pre Roman and pre Todd Chelsea fan)

 

Labour’s Football Governance Bill
Can anyone persuade Cole Palmer to get heavily involved in the government’s Football Governance Bill so we can refer to it as Cole’s Law?
Chris (badum-tish), Stretford