The Mailbox is divided over whether England should sack Southgate, while Maguire is to blame, not Kane

The Mailbox argues over Gareth Southgate and his England future, while one fan thinks people are blaming the wrong Harry…

Send your views in to theeditor@football365.com…

 

Southgate in
It hurts. It really hurts. For a change though “glorious failure” isn’t what it used to be. This time it was different. We were the better team.

The reason being Gareth Southgate: the squad he has built, the team spirit he has built and the way of playing he has built (evolved would be a better word) over 6 years.

He played an attacking team, that probably won’t stop the pessimists but fuck me, that was a performance to be proud of. Best team lost.
Brian (BRFC) England

 

I’ve slated Gareth so many times over the years but respect where it is due. He released the handbrake and played the 4-3-3. the team were class – mainly from my perspective because they were playing their natural formation and style. France’s first goal you’d say hit that all day son and he did…and scored. The rest of the game England were the better team but of course it came down to that pen…which happens….I for one have a stronger respect for this team and manager during tonight…they will win the next Euros and Gareth should lead them there….I never thought I’d ever say that!
Duck

 

Southgate got it right…
The defeat is nothing to do with Southgate this time. He set the team up well and they outplayed one of the best teams in the world. You really can’t ask much more than that.

Unfortunately, under extreme pressure, Harry Kane skied his second penalty and out we went. You wouldn’t have thought it of him but anyone can miss in a situation as intense as that. I wouldn’t describe it as a ‘ small detail ‘ like he did though.

Obviously this one will hurt. Though anyone thinking , if we’d got through, that we were extreme favourites against Morocco have not noticed who they’ve eliminated already. They’re quite capable of shutting out France.

The ref had a very bad first half for sure. The foul on Saka in the build up to the goal was pretty obvious. And how the tackle on Kane wasn’t given as yet another a penalty is beyond me. The tackling by France was really borderline all night and VAR must have been asleep half the time. But we didn’t go out because of the referee.

Saka and Declan Rice were terrific, Bellingham was really good and the defence made sure Mbappe wasn’t anywhere near as effective as he can be. It was a really good performance against an elite team. Much better than the ones against Croatia and Italy.

I hope Southgate stays, he’s learnt from previous tournaments and had his best one to date. Who’s going to do better than him in the next Euros? But he took a lot of grief in the run up to Qatar, he may well have had enough.

It’s also important to remember that if Kane scored we were still only level. We were far from guaranteed to get through in extra time.

But to beat the England mens scoring record by equalising against France in the World Cup quarter final is the stuff of dreams isn’t it?

Unfortunately for Harry, what actually happened will be revisiting him in his nightmares for a long time to come.
James, Liverpool and England

England have finally made the leap…
I’ve been watching England for 25 years. It has nearly always been the same story- make steady progress, then fall into pieces when they meet real quality. As soon as they encountered a highly technical opponent, any notion of keeping the ball, progressing through the lines and you know, playing actual football would disappear, and England would resort to defending their box, and hitting it long.This happened in 2000,2002, 2004, 2006, 2012, and although Southgate did bring a sizable improvement against lesser and sometimes decent sides, the problem resurfaced against Croatia in 2018, and again last year against Italy. Harry Maguire launching into the stands that night still makes me laugh/cry.

But- last night England played the World Champions, and their biggest failing of bygone years seemed to finally be consigned to history. They created more than their opponents, passed it confidently, and ,finally, truly held their own against world class opponents on the biggest stage. They didn’t retreat into their shells, they played like they belonged on the world stage.

Maybe going a goal down helped, maybe France sitting back a bit also helped.But last night I finally saw England make the leap I’d been waiting forever for them to make. Results don’t always manage to reflect such a seismic shift,but soon enough, they will.
Bryan S

 

England will win the next Euros…
The dust settles on that most unwelcome biannual tradition; Englands latest tournament exit. To quote a bang average Bond film, it appears with all the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.

Much debate on how this is different than other years- England competed where they had not previously, and perhaps more importantly seemed a likeable bunch we could be proud to support.

On the pitch this is either progress and the previous Golden Generation have been shown up as the charlatans they are; or Same Old England.

There was been progress for certain; a QF exit was what we would get in the days of Sven but never looked like progressing further. Now I genuinely think we were a Waddled penalty away from being a decent bet for the Cup.

But we are missing something. I don’t think it’s Southgate. Yes, as ShoutSport said maybe he’s not a Top Six manager. But that’s not relevant and being an international manager requires a different skill set to the league grind. I’d suggest if we had a Southgate in charge at another point in the past 20 years we would have won something.

And that’s what we are missing. And it’s all we are missing. It’s what Kane is missing; the often meaningless stat padding never translating into as much as a league cup. It’s what this side needs, and it needs to be a lucky one, an undeserved one; it can be a Greece or a Denmark, or a food old fashioned warranted one. But I think if we got that lift, unlike the former examples, it breeds international success into a hugely exciting squad.

So I’m calling it; England to win the Euros in 18 months’ time.
Andy Mac, Vancouver Spur (but fucking hell, Harry)

 

The future is bright…
Well, that was saddening but what a performance. This England team has just proved they are and will continue to be one of the best teams in the world. It was not a plucky team trying to mix it with the big boys, there were no backs to the wall – we went toe to toe with the (deservedly titled) world champions and were the better team for the large part. We controlled the midfield like I have never seen before, we looked solid In defence and threatening going forward. A complete performance in all but result and we’ll be there or there abouts for years to come. This was almost a coming of age and come it will. I hope somewhere in the club system we have another Harry Kane brewing because he knits he play together so well, gutted for him but the balls on him to come out and interview like he did is the mark of the man, a true leader. I love this England team, whether they end up winning anything or not Southgate has built something special and I hope he remains in the job. He has got it wrong in the past but maybe, just maybe he was just working with what he had – that midfield three of Rice, Bellingham and Hendo was monstrous against France, when Henderson goes I can see Mount/Phillips stepping in and that is our midfield set for years to come. We are stacked with exciting forwards (without even considering in next incoming generational talent that is Harvey Elliott) and well covered at the back – Maguire and Stones are great for England and should have another couple of tournaments in them, Shaw gets better and better, Walker is getting on but I can see James and Trent fighting over the right back stop for years to come – the future is bright.

France, Croatia, Morocco and Argentina – I’d fancy we could have beaten any of them but whoever wins is a story. I’d love to see Messi do it but wouldn’t begrudge any of them. That said, France vs Argentina final feels more world cuppy than Croatia vs Morocco – or is that what Fifa deserve?

Loved the way Maguire called out the shockingly bad ref but I don’t even feel cheated, just proud of the lads.
Tom (Not so) Sunny Smallts

 

Gutted
You need a little luck to win the World Cup. We had none tonight.

I’ve never been more proud of an England performance.

Me heart goes out to Kane. He’s been a talisman for England, but will never live this down.
Rob

 

Southgate remains the issue…
Well there we go. Gareth involved in seeing England knocked out with penalties involved, yet again. How many times is that now?

But seriously, that’s a tough result to take, we absolutely deserved something out of it, at least as much as they did. A shady referee who refused to make all the big decisions, nearly all of which should have favoured England, combined with VAR screwing it’s one job. A lineup that looked fairly hopeful if somewhat held back. Saka played well (certainly in terms of presence and defensive effort); Foden did fine, with some excellent moments; Bellingham was good but targeted; Shaw did fine and dealt with Dembele pretty easily, while offering more attacking threat; Rice was good, tidy, some nice tackles; Walker did well and mostly kept a lead on Mbappe; Henderson shouted a bit, ran a lot (like an old Labrador chasing a ball) even though it was really not playing to his strengths, and occasionally passed to his team mates instead of opponents; Kane did Kane stuff (drop deep, try to find others who wouldn’t make the runs and really not be involved in the shooting side of the striker position that much); Maguire didn’t actually have a huge brain fart although he was still beaten for pace by Giroud for the second goal and the effort in his overhit long passing was hilarious; Pickford pulled off one very solid save and was generally perfectly decent.

Eventually Henderson was put out of his and our misery and replaced with someone with legs, cue a clear pen almost instantly that still required VAR to call. Although unfortunately that person forgot that his long range shooting is utterly terrible and wasted a great opportunity near the end. Apparently Sterling came on which I only noticed when he decided to slow down possession in the last few minutes before putting terrible crosses in.

And of course, eventually Rashford was allowed on and nearly scored with virtually his first touch, but with no time to actually do anything else. What does the lad need to do to get more than 15 minutes a match from this cretin? For every “he only scored against Wales” there’s a “and Saka and Sterling only scored against Iran”.

And that’s the underlying issue that won’t change. Sure, Kane Spurs’d an easy chance to equalise from the one place he’s usually happy to shoot from in an England shirt, but that’s just the way it goes.

No, the issue remains the manager and his in-game management, or rather the lack of it. Camera pans to him looking cool, thoughtful, calm (according to the commentators). Alternatively, camera pans to him not having a clue what to do to change the game bar late subs that are too late to help, and refuses / lacks the ability to make in game tactical tweaks. He has a plan A that’s basically the same no matter the opponent. Maybe he might change a player, at a push. There is no plan B, there is no responding to opponent changes or making tweaks to expose weaknesses that have been identified during the match or if plan A isn’t working.

Oh well, I guess we can look forward to two more years of exactly the same missing of opportunities thanks to the cartoonish refereeing that will take any blame off him in the media. Whoop-di-fucking-do.
Badwolf

 

I think we can all agree that Gareth did his best…

(No in-game management, no Plan B, England less than the sum of their parts, bowing gracefully out of another tournament)

Thanks for all the almost memories.

Ta-ra and good luck in Watford, or hopefully Norwich.
Matthew (ITFC)

 

Will Kane suffer like Saka, Rashford and Sancho?
If there’s one thing an Irishman can do well it’s to bear a grudge, hence the Sophies Choice presented by an England vs France quarter final. Saying that, it was a shame to know that one of these teams had to go out of the tournament and the semi finals will be a poorer affair for Englands loss.

Absolute credit to Rashford for having the courage to take that free kick at the very end, knowing the vitriol that potentially awaits him if he failed. There will be calls for Southgate to resign but more importantly, let’s see does Harry Kane suffer the same abuse that Saka, Sancho and Rashford  received when their penalties cost England at the last tournament.

If he doesn’t, has the fanbase matured or is there another reason?
Eoin (France/Argentina is the final we want now) Ireland

 

So I checked. In terms of penalties, Harry Kane has the most successful record of any England player in history. I mean by some distance. By any measure at all. It’s not even close.

I mention this because of some of the extraordinary abuse that is about to come his way. In the domestic league, this will mainly be fans who wear red shirts. Not so much the media I think, which is progress, compared to Beckham & 1998.

Players miss penalties. As they did in the European Championship Final. Kane scored his there, by the way. I’m not going to go any further with that.
Andrew D

 

To Harry Kane and Matt Stead
One of the reasons why I love F365 so much is because you have magnificent writers who can put the maelstrom of feelings that I experience when watching football into words. Matt Stead’s 16 conclusions were so brilliantly balanced and eloquent that I got a bit emotional. I don’t have a 6 month old Matt, so I don’t really have an excuse like you do, I suppose I’m just a big old cringebag.

I am gutted. Absolutely f*cking gutted. I thought England played the better football in the second half and were threatening to turn it around before Griezmann (and Giroud) proved once again why they are such magnificent players.

But the main reason for this mail is to give Harry Kane the accolade he deserves. Remember when he was marked out to be a one season wonder? Well as we now know, he’s just simply a wonderful footballer and he’s ours.

He’s ours!

His goal scoring is magnificent but, as everybody knows, he’s so much more than that. His hold up play and ability to draw fouls…just a remarkable talent. He buried our first pen and missed our second horribly but he’ll be back.

Chin up Harry. You still have at least another two tournaments in you. It’s a long way off but in 2026 you’ll only be 33, and only 31 in Germany 2024. You’re the driving force in this England team and we need you. In 2024 and 2026 lads like Foden, Saka and Bellingham will be, what, still early 20’s? It’s only just begun.

It hurts but we have so much to look forward to. I’m optimistic and, as a young kid who watched the golden generation disappoint and disappoint and disappoint, I’m savouring this group of lads even in defeat because I don’t think in my lifetime we’ve ever had it so good.

And what makes it even better is that I get to share all of the highs and the lows with the fine folk of F365. I’m so glad I discovered this website. I don’t agree with every article I read on here, but I always feel like I’ve been given food for thought. Don’t ever go away F365. You’re gold, you really are. This’ll be my last mail before the new year so merry Christmas everyone and I hope you enjoy the rest of the tournament.

P.S. Saka’s cheekbones are like his personality: beautiful
Jack, 28, London (sad but excited)

 

Don’t blame the wrong Harry
Harry Maguire again. Lead in his boots for the Italian equaliser in the Euros, lead in his boots getting to Giroud for the French winner.
Terry, Texas

 

I predicted this…
Before the last world cup I said that England’s wouldn’t win the world cup.

I repeated my pessimism before the euros and lots of people disagreed and said I was just being an England hater.

I said it again before this tournament, and England are out. Again.

It isn’t talent. England has some talented players. It’s mentality. When it comes down to it, England are bottlers. It takes a real belief to win big trophies and that belief is difficult to instill in a team that doesn’t have it. Especially if they keep having near misses because that imposter syndrome just gets stronger with every near miss.

But but refereeing! No. The referee was bad but he didn’t favour France. He booked griezemann in the first half for what was a very clear dive. He gave England two penalties. If he was biased, he wouldn’t.

England had the chance to pull level and potentially win, but when that moment of belief was needed – the belief just wasn’t there. Kane’s miss is what I’m referring to. Compare that with Croatia who not only had an eerie level of belief during their shootout win but also when they went a goal down. You could see in the way they played there was a belief they could score.

I didn’t see that in England today. I’m not sure I’ll ever see it. It’s part of the English national team mindset that we will lose.
Lee

 

Gareth Southgate = Tim Henman
Gareth Southgate is the most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey, in the same way that 20 years ago, Tim Henman was the most successful British tennis player since Fred Perry.
Matthew, Belfast

 

Haha England…
Considering that England are the Spurs of the national scene, what a fitting way to exit the tournament.

I look forward to Kane wearing rainbow laces and supporting pride again now that he doesn’t have to risk the absolutely huge, monumental, life changing repercussions of a yellow card.

So long hypocrite!
Robert W

 

As predicted. England are a mid-tier two international side. Be glad you got a handy run to get to the quarters. The more you build yourself up, the more the rest of us laugh at you when you inevitability fail. Bring on Euro 2024 hahahahahaha
Weldoninhio, BAC

Cristiano Ronaldo…
Well bloody done Morocco. Firstly for doing so well and showing what team spirit can do.

Secondly for ensuring that that was the last truly competitive game in a top competition that Ronaldo will play in again. Good riddance.
Will in London.

 

Cristiano Ronaldo. Classless. A complete bell end. Even if we don’t win it, at least he won’t.
Aidan, EFC, London

 

There’s inevitably been so much focus on Ronaldo going out of the World Cup, but it’s important that as fans we don’t focus on single players and gloat over their misfortune.

Remember that Pepe has also gone out and celebrate that too.
Dave Hone

 

The only thing better than Suarez tears? Ronaldo tears! Siiuuuuu!

P.S when Saka and the Arsenal fan base complained about protecting players more, they told us football is a physical game. Get on with it. Now it’s England and you’re complaining? Hypocrites.
Damola, Bremen