The Manchester United inquest continues as Fernandes accused of deliberately getting sent off

Editor F365 30 Sep 2024 1:30 PM

Newcastle manager Eddie Howe and Manchester United coach Erik ten Hag

Only Eddie Howe can fix this mess

Only Eddie Howe can fix this Manchester United ‘shambles’. But which player is most culpable? Bruno Fernandes and his deliberate red card, perhaps?

Send your thoughts to theeditor@football365.com.

Ten and out
He’s surely got to go now, hasn’t he? Ironically I started writing this in the middle of the week after I heard the comment that FC Twente “wanted it more” but surely the Tottenham fiasco is the final nail in the coffin. Previously I was of the mindset of “who would be any better” but I now believe “who could be worse?” of the realistic candidates (no not Big Sam, Fat Frank, etc.) out there.

If you look at it dispassionately, as I am sure INEOS will do, every variable except one has been changed yet the outcome has remained the same. ETH cannot blame injuries or the lack of his players anymore as I believe 8 of the starting XI were his guys. If they cannot understand his tactics or he cannot motivate them, then the only logical conclusion is that ETH is the problem.

Ironically the three highest paid players seem to be the worst offenders. What message does it send the players when your 300k a week players phone it in but are never dropped? How motivated would you be if one of your colleagues was making ten times what you were but wasn’t pulling their weight?

In over 60 years of watching MUFC, I have never seen a team play with such little passion or desire. This simply cannot be allowed to continue any longer.
Adidasmufc (RVN will be interim before the Porto game)

They need Howe
Manchester United thought they were getting a “project” manager with Ten Hag, but there are far too few signs of any plan. One of you lot (Winterburne, I think?) copped my “dead man walking” description of him for an article a bit ago. The club’s management team were surely calling agents and clubs before I even started writing this.

The coach Manchester United really need is Eddie Howe. He’s very good at managing player morale, and usually seems able to get the most from his squad, including its oldest and youngest members. Given that European qualification may now seem more in the nature of a target than a goal, it’s a good time to make a change. ManU’s squad might look very different indeed after a month or three of adversity while they onboard Howe’s tactics and training requirements; there’s plenty of talent there. I think Rashford in particular might shine up nicely.

Of course, Howe is a pretty hard target. He reportedly signed a contract extension in summer 2023 that did not include a release clause. Howe himself could decide he wants a move to a club less restricted by financial handcuffs, or he might not. If it became a question of money, PIF could surely meet any requirements he may have, to the extent that P&S regulations allow.

It’s also possible that Newcastle United’s management would let him go rather than make him one of the highest-paid managers in the world, and opt for a sexier manager, having already established the club as contenders for Europe. But that seems unlikely so soon after the extension, with the club in 7th and showing signs of having higher gears. (They had best find them against AFC Wimbledon, though last year’s Tyne-Wear derby was surely more of a banana-skin match.)

But if not Howe, then, who? There are hundreds of perfectly good coaches to be found across Europe, but among the ones I’m familiar with, the closest to Howe’s profile is Graham Potter. I think he’d be worth a two- or three-year contract offer. He’s got a point to prove, and his reputation as a players’ manager would probably be welcome in the locker room, as we say in these parts. I don’t know if he can instill the same grit that Howe can, though.

And while I’m here: Bruno Fernandes’ post-match comments were reasonable, but I thought they were specious at first. I recognized the slip of Bruno’s plant foot, but it still looked as though he made an extra effort to stop Maddison while falling. The intentionality of it said red card to me, but in fact, Bruno was probably correct. That challenge was never likely to injure, and the red shouldn’t have been given. Unless perhaps the clear intent puts into the ambiguous territory of “serious foul play”?
Chris C, Toon Army DC (I still appreciated Brennan Johnson sh*thousing Fernandes in the aftermath. He was enjoying himself immensely. Good times, good times.)

MORE ON YET ANOTHER MAN UTD DEFEAT
👉 16 Conclusions on Man Utd 0-3 Tottenham: Ten Hag sack, Ugarte nightmare, Kulusevski dazzles
👉 Manchester United ‘crisis meeting’ claim made after Van Nistelrooy painted as ‘cool’ anti-Ten Hag
👉 Ten Hag sack unavoidable but Man Utd players ‘stealing a living’ and Rashford ‘just gave up’

We do talk about Bruno
Hi there,

Only a moron, or a Proper Football Man, would look at Bruno Fernandes’ knee-high challenge on Maddison that he was at no point in control of and say it’s not a red card. These people can be safely disregarded. But, my controversial steaming-hot take is that I think Fernandes, or at least his id, was trying to get it.

For an almost-but-not-quite elite-level competitor like Fernandes, for their team, and for him himself, to be so comprehensively outclassed by an average-to-slightly-above-average Premier League at home is such a humiliation that he doesn’t want to play any more. So he reacts by lashing out. He can then do all the apologising for letting the team down nonsense, but in his head he can blame the performance and defeat on the fact that he wasn’t there.

Of course, the converse is true. United didn’t lose and play abjectly because Fernandes got sent off. Fernandes got sent off because United were losing and playing abjectly. The fans will rally round and say stupid stupid things like “at least he cares” but the truth is probably that he has a loser’s mentality and there might be no place for him at the top table of world football.

Or maybe even at this Man United, to be honest.
Dara O’Reilly, London

What does Rashford do?
What does Rashford actually bring to this team? Is it goals?.. No… is it assists?… No.. is it the never give up attitude?… No.. is it some mazy dribbles and beating a man ?.. No… does he create space for other players to move into ? … No…Is it his defensive work rate?.. No.. Is it his ability to break open the defence with a through ball? … No… Is it because he’s our academy player… well now we have mainoo and garnacho…

So what am i missing here… why does this third rate confused winger/striker continue to get a starting place in this team ? Seriously, can someone please explain to me WHAT THE F**K DOES RASHFORD DO ?
KC

Over to you, INEOS
At the start of this season you kindly published my thoughts that this would be a crucial few months for ETH, and we’d know one way or the other how it was going to go. Last season he genuinely was crippled by injuries, and virtually never even had the same back four available, much less a full or near-ful eleven.

Well, fast forward and he now has virtually a fully fit team, and it has just been taken apart – again – at home. That was as bad a half of football as I’ve seen as United fan. Period, no clauses.

And thus, to my eye, that’s it. INEOS did the right thing – gave him a chance, and he has not taken it.

So over to you, much esteemed new management structure. The only question is how quick and tedious the ripping-off of the band-aid shall be.
Ryan, Bermuda

I wish United fans would take a step back and accept that turning around a failing club takes time. And in spite of systemic issues, Ten Hag has still won two trophies in two seasons, which is hugely impressive.

Rather than constantly being a sacking club, United need to give their managers more time, especially Ten Hag, so he can finish the job and lead them to the Championship they so richly deserve….
Andy D. Manchester. MCFC (Ten Hag in forever please)

A quick question
I realise that being a Liverpool fan this might seem a bit like rubbing some salt in the wound but it’s an honest question; why would a player agree to sign for Man Utd?

I totally get they pay insane money but essentially they’ve been so poor for at least four years now that nobody leaves on an upward trajectory. The team as a whole drags every player down to their level in time and I literally can’t think of a player who left in the past few years having improved their reputation. Sancho would be the exception but he rebuilt his reputation on loan at Dortmund not actually at Man Utd.

If you’re 18-25 and signing a 3-4 year contract it seems like a big pay boost today but might just destroy your career if they don’t keep extending you and the rest of the world thinks you’re a bit sh*t. Who from this team would get into the Man City, Arsenal or Liverpool teams? The answer is nobody….the limited talent that some players show isn’t backed up by the attitude required of actual top players. And that question may seem harsh but ultimately Brentford, Villa, Palace, Brighton and West Ham all have at least one player who one of those clubs would take and improve their own teams. All those clubs are ones that Man Utd fans would deem smaller clubs than them.

Man Utd took a lot of pleasure laughing at Liverpool in our barren years but even under Hodgson it didn’t get as bad as this…mainly because he wasn’t given so much time for the rot to well and truly set in. Whilst Jim is busy telling everyone to work in the office or quit he must’ve missed the bit where football teams actually have to win football matches to be deemed a success. Or maybe he also knows Man Utd is just a giant marketing con masquerading as a football club. It’s the footballing equivalent of Paris Hilton pretending she’s famous when really she’s just the daughter of a billionaire.

Funny how quick time passes lads. Your 30 years is just around the corner.
Minty, LFC

Striking off
Shambles. Spurs were simply just much more hungry for the points. As in midweek, United played far too casually. The driving run and pass from Van De Ven was excellent but someone has to put a foot in.

And god damn, we need someone to start putting chances away.

Garnacho going for the glory shot instead of just putting it away, Zirkzee is not going to score lots of goals even though he was unlucky; he’s a useful second striker or link man, but not solo.

Should have been back to 2-1 if they could actually finish chances, before the laughable game changing red card (silver lining, no more Bruno for a few games). The penalty not given even though VAR checks and confirm it hits his arm lol (what is the actual point in this sh*t?).

While many will blame the manager, and of course he has to take some responsibility, this is down to the players. Can’t blame Rashford, who’s doing good stuff. I’d rather we had him up front but he’s getting into his form off the left so hard to argue with that.

But we ain’t going to score without a striker. And we ain’t going to win without goals. Seems like Højlund comes back in with just as much pressure as before.

Oh and more injuries, excellent.

At least the youth squad recruitment is looking good.
Badwolf

As bad as Moyes
Wrote yesterday before the match that it feels its time for ETH to leave. And good lord, the match proved just how bad things have gotten! Close to 500m spent, and the best players for United are a bunch of academy kids after 3 whole years. It’s shambolic, and if ETH wants a job again in the future, he needs to resign, if not then United need to sack him. Feel for him, but it’s over. Losing a match is okay, but to lose EVERY match we play, and deservedly so, is just madness for a club at United’s level. You could tell me this is 2014 and we are watching Moyes play, and I would believe you. 10 years and 0 progress for United. 3 years and 0 progress for Ten Hag.

There is not a SINGLE PLAYER in the United team that would get into any of the top 15 clubs in the world. Its just mediocre players at the level of Chamakh, Gervinho, Soldado and all the other FLOPS that Arsenal, Livpool and Spurs ever bought! At that time I used to think how do big clubs buy such trash players, and now i know.

Its over. United are the new Spurs + Arsenal mix in that we will find hilarious ways to find rock bottom and embarrass the fans. Honestly, the masochist part of me is slowly learning how to enjoy the pain and misery.

Cheers,
A

Composure
Composure. That’s the keyword. The one thing that our club has been lacking for years. Both on and off the field. Now that the off field issues seem to have settled it is on the field where we lack Composure.

Even after 2 years in to his reign and having a playing XI, majority of his were his signings, it is unacceptable that his team keeps playing like this. How can you start so badly in a Home fixture and still can’t find any rhythm after 40 mins. Even with 11 men, don’t think we would’ve made a match of it.

Garnacho at right wing was a complete liability. At least Rashford has shown he can play on the right side but Alejandro just doesn’t cut it.

Bruno and Dalot were pathetic. If we had someone else to play at left back, Diogo would have been substituted after half an hour. Even before the red card Bruno – Our captain, was unbelievably poor. His red was unlucky but still stupid. It was as if he wanted that moment to spur his team on, if only he had not given way the ball so many times so cheaply prior to that incident it would have been a catalyst.

Case came at half time and immediately resorted to losing the ball and just kept on jogging as if he was still getting ready to be sent on.

Only Onana and Timo Werner kept the scoreline from reaching tennis levels. Mainoo injured, Mount came in and got injured. Hojlund doesn’t know what to do and Ugarte still seems to be meandering on French football levels.

The players were definitely at fault for this performance but it was not as if nobody expected anything else. That’s at the fault of the Manager. We expected Man UTD to play this badly. Still there are certain sections who completely blame the players for this and there is talk again of not playing for the badge. Of the 11 that started only 3 were pre ETH era signings. One was our previous season’s POTS. Th other is our captain and best player since he signed for the club. And Rashford.

So to put the blame entirely on the players will be a travesty and only ETH supporters who need not necessarily be UTD supporters will say so. The best for the club is to let ETH go and dare I say that if he stays till the end of the season we will finish below 8th.

Regards
Vasanthan, Coimbatore, TN, India

Narrative365
So which narrative is it going to be this week F365?

Obviously had Spurs turned up at Old Trafford and managed to lose to this struggling Ten Hag’s United, we all know it would’ve been the perfect platform to roll out the greatest hits. “Lads it’s Tottenham”, “it is who we are, mate”, “So Spursy”.

But since Spurs rocked up at Old Trafford and dispatched a team who are inferior at this moment in time (but who are still a massive club capable of great things, like winning more trophies than any other PL club in the last two season apart from City) with a convincing level of dominance even before the sending off: then surely the narrative this week just shifts to Ange mate’s Spursy Spurs last week aren’t really that good this week because United are so bad? Has to be, right? That way there’s no need to lose face and give credit.
Anon

PS oh look, yep, there it is in 16 conclusions. Excellent work fellas, stick to your guns. Let’s go!

I know the writers at f365 have to try to be funny as well as informative, but at the moment every spurs article makes me think I’ve accidentally ended up on Arsemania as they seem to be entirely narrative driven and focused on trying to make a crisis where there really isn’t one.

In his weekend preview Dave Tickner put them in the same bucket as United which was stupid then and looks even more stupid now. 10 points from 6 games is pretty much the minimum they could possible have at this stage, having had 3 emphatic wins and a draw and a defeat that they should have won. Even the one deserved loss was a one goal defeat to one of the best teams in the league (he says through gritted teeth) which is hardly a crisis.

But it got worse after the game. Will Ford’s 16 conclusions chose to focus almost exclusively on United being bad, while Steven Chicken’s determination to label everything as spurs bad, United worse was so extreme that he actually described Mickey Van De Ven’s 60 yard run (you know, the one where he started well inside his own half, finished at the bye line and burned straight through 3 guys) as ‘knocking the ball 15 yards in front of him and running into the area’.

The jury is still out on Ange, but this manufactured crisis is tiresome in the extreme. Can we go back to proper reporting please?

Thanks
Phil, London

Whoa, whoa, whoa,

I know Man United move the needle on online content more than pretty much anyone else, so I wasn’t surprised to see their latest crisis dominate this morning’s mailbox. What did disappoint me however, is that the only Spurs-centric mail was a bizarre rant from Eric, Los Angeles, which suggested that Spurs will always be a banter club. Strange day for that sentiment to rear it’s head.

Micky Van de Ven, Dejan Kulusevski, Cristian Romero, Destiny Udogie – they don’t care that Eric thinks Spurs will always be a banter club. They care about winning, and putting in performances and getting great wins like they did yesterday. Ange Postecoglou famously, has absolutely no time for peddling the Spurs ‘banter club’ narrative, and through unwavering commitment to the style of play and winning mentality he’s trying to instigate at Spurs, he’ll cleanse that reputation, one big win at a time.

The idea of ‘banter clubs’ is mainly something that lives on twitter and reddit. To think teams will ‘always be a banter club’ is nonsense. Look at Arsenal: long thought of as a team that were flaky with a soft underbelly. Now Arteta and his charges, it pains me to say, have turned themselves into a battle-ready heavyweight team that can contend for titles.

United are actually the perfect antithesis to Eric’s ‘always’ idea: A club that Fergie had built for a quarter of a century to have a permanent winner’s mentality… devolves into being essentially a new ‘banter club’ in 10 years.

For Ange to totally change the identity of Tottenham will continue to be a rocky road with plenty of ups and downs, but as a long time Spurs fan, it’s absolutely refreshing to follow a manager and a group of players who have no interest in being shackled by Spurs ‘banter’ reputation.

Delighted to see this group of players make it 4 wins in 4 (and with Brennan Johnson getting a goal in each!) and whether it’s this year, or in 3 years, I’m excited to see how high Ange can take this.
Andy, THFC, Eire

Dear F365,

Lots of talk on Monday’s mailbox about how bad United were, and deservedly so. But let’s give credit where it is due; Spurs were really good. On another day, it could have been five or more nil. With no Son (and no Kane), we looked like a top four team yesterday. More please!
JJW

Reasons for the mess
Couldn’t but not write in after a year, after witnessing the shambles that was today. The three major reasons for the mess that we see right now are as follows which anyone who’s half blind can attest to (but somehow are not able to point to):

1) Over-reliance on Bruno, a bang average playmaker at best, for so long knowing that he will not be able to lead in the manner expected of the club and the fans.

2) Over-reliance on foreigners in a league where local feelings play a very important role in dictating how the games are run. This team is crying out for atleast two more British players (other than Rashford and Mainoo) to bring a sense of togetherness and urgency to this group.

3) Severe lack of tactics inspite of ETH insisting otherwise. Am not sure how much RVN has a say with regards to style of play and transitions etc. but it’s not working at all.

I would still suggest that solving the first two issues may just auto-fix the third, but if ETH does not identify some local talent (other than paying millions every single time) or even get a few in from the academy, his approach is bound to cost him this job.

As a quick fix I’d suggest Maguire lead the team (there I said it), Martinez play with Ugarte in midfield, one of Mainoo or Mount in an attacking role, with the wide players and one up top. This might bring in a sense of cohesion and fight badly required at the moment.
Saby, Reading

Referees
A reply to Ash Metcalfe. I agree that the Bruno sending off was harsh. In a situation like this I think it would really help to hear the audio from the ref/VAR by way of explaining the decision at the time, not 3 weeks later.

Anyway, I also wanted to call out Ash for his “referees are ruining the game” nonsense. His suggestion that “Who’d have thought that sticking with the opinions of people who objectively don’t know what they’re doing was a bad idea?” is utterly laughable. The referees know fair more about the rules of the game than any manager or fan do because it is their job. I’m sure the response will be, “but they don’t know the game” which is shorthand for players doing whatever the hell they want and managers wanting every decision to go for them. Yes, refs do make mistakes but then of course so do managers and players on a weekly basis. Refs are working in an environment whereby pretty much every single manager and player is actively trying to stretch the rules to breaking point each week and yet it is the ref’s fault for enforcing them.

Bruno’s interview post game where he said he’d have accepted a yellow for breaking up play is ridiculous. We all know that he’d have been mouthing off at the ref for a yellow citing he’d not really fouled anyone before that, some Spurs player had fouled someone 10 mins earlier and not been booked or that he’d slipped so wasn’t his fault. At no point would he have just accepted the yellow and walked off.

Ash also raises the point about the move to sticking with the on field decision more. Come on, how are the PGMOL meant to win here. VAR has been pulled to pieces and they make a decision to use it less and yet that is now an issue. Honestly, fans need to make their minds up.
J

Conspiracy
The mail this morning from Howard Jones I could see coming from a mile off. Why? Match of The Day. Their picking and choosing of ‘incidents’ give a picture of a game which doesn’t tell the whole story, and Howard has (rightly) seen the highlights and written in to have a pop.

What MOTD didn’t show, nor make a meal a of in nearly the same way, was Oliver Skipp’s foul on Martinelli after seven minutes. Having perhaps just about rolled his studs over the ball, he clattered into the winger’s ankle for a clear, clear foul. Spurs fans wanted Jurrien Timber hung for something similar, though nowhere near as bad, just two weeks ago, but Skipp got off completely (and for the challenge, he was deemed ‘Fully COYS’, whatever the fuck that means, on Twitter, from what I saw). Not only was the foul a definite caution, Skipp proceeded to kick the ball away after the whistle had gone, with a teammate (unsure who) punting it even further away with the next touch. Now, in Michael Oliver’s world, that could be two very quick bookable offences; Skipp didn’t even get one.

I am not saying that he should have been sent off for the two ‘offences’ but putting their clogging central midfielder on a booking after seven minutes would’ve made him either a) think a bit before the next one or b) see him sent off at 2-1 when he eventually did get booked in the 50th minute.

So, ultimately Calafiori was a bit lucky not to see a second yellow, but also not every single foul is a booking, as Skipp’s first crack at Martinelli so proved. Steve Cooper is within his rights to have a moan up, however to do so without acknowledging the luck of Skipp creates a false narrative that someone like Howard, who didn’t see the whole game, believes.

MOTD created a storyline they wanted people to see with regards to those decisions – there’s no other reason to show one and not the other and then dwell on it in the interviews and post-match.

Last week Boring Boring Arsenal, this week Lucky Arsenal.
Joe, AFC, East Sussex

PS. Sorry to disappoint James, MUFC who predicted loads of Arsenal emails discussing how to play with ten men. There were none, we don’t care enough. Although Wrighty having a little pop on Stick to Football this week would be amusing…

I note that Mazraoui clearly kicked the ball away whilst on a yellow card, leaving Chris ‘you made me do it’ Kavanagh with absolutely no choice but to ignore it and carry on with the game.

We can keep this up all season, you know.
Dan, London.

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