Not fooled by Kobbie Mainoo and the Man Utd ‘hype’ machine…

England’s man of the match? One Mailboxer reckons Kobbie Mainoo would still be playing youth team football for a serious club. Also: the case for Ollie Watkins; a defence of Jordan Pickford; and, obviously, Manchester City…

Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com…

Mainoo is all hype
I see we’re all doing that thing again where everyone’s demanding that a kid who’d still be playing youth team football for a competent Champions League level team should be starting for the national team simply because of the badge he wears.

Good thing there’s no recent and indeed ongoing cautionary tales about the level of hype and expectation placed onto the team he regularly turns out for relative to the actual end product which is frequently and disappointingly delivered.
Simon, London

Pickford removal?
Tedious, predictable comment from Paul K which just seems to encapsulate the general kneejerk behaviour towards Pickford.

Let’s get this straight, he is a brilliant keeper.
People who watch him regularly (as I do) know this.
He’s been our player of the season for two on the bounce.
He’s won countless save of the month/ season awards.
He’s currently only behind Raya and Ederson for clean sheets, both of which get armchair rides weekly.
Imagine if he got to play with their line ups in front of him? He’d walk the Golden Glove season after season.

Not in the Top Ten? Don’t be so daft.
Ian, EFC

Read more: Mainoo bolts into the famous F365 Euro 2024 England ladder, which has a new No. 1

The case for Watkins
I’ll make the (also biased) case for Ollie then, in response to Brentford fan Rob in Surrey…

Agree with a fair few of Rob’s points in terms of either Toney or Watkins most likely barely playing anyway. Can’t deny the penalty taking ability too – Watkins is rather ropey there. Agreed also that Watkins won’t be shifted out wide ahead of a myriad number of others. He goes as a striker or not at all. Interestingly though, where Rob states that Toney is more similar to Kane, I’ve heard pundits state the opposite; that Watkins is the like-for-like change with Toney as the point of difference. Toney’s presence is definitely a strong point, but I won’t have that his work rate is better Watkins’. I think the PL’s joint top assistererer (?) is probably okay at bringing others into the game too. He even played a key part in Bellingham’s equaliser midweek.

The raw numbers over the last 3 years are broadly similar in terms of goal involvements per game. Toney edges it on the goals front (pens helping there) whilst Watkins edges it on assists. Toney’s on 0.61 goal involvements per game whilst Watkins is on 0.59. (And had Gerrard as a manager for 30+ games). There really is very little between them, and it would be a shame if either missed out. Which is why I would 100% take both. It is more than hinted at that safe Southgate will only take one, but wouldn’t a safe manager take both? If one striker gets injured/suspended do you really only want one more in the squad? Don’t talk about Rashford, he’s proved he can’t play there – and clearly doesn’t want to. Why leave one at home in order to take a couple more Mids that won’t get anywhere near the pitch?

If it is to be one of the two, I’d maybe just slightly lean towards Ollie on current form. A strong finish from Toney could easily sway me though, but it really should be both going.
Gary AVFC, Oxford. (Couldn’t resist the Stevie G dig).

Shrugging over City 
Couldn’t agree more with Andreas, St Albans.

I’ve been a Manchester United fan since 1976 and watched City flounder around for decades. An absolute joke of a team, with a smallish admirably loyal following. Up and down the leagues. This is their place.

Liverpool, now I admired them in the 70s and 80s but still despised them. When Liverpool won the title a couple of years ago I actually felt pleased for their loyal fans who waited 2 decades. But I hated it. The beast had risen again..

The choice of who wins the league between Liverpool and City? City every day of the week. Why? Because it’s plastic, artificial. No one outside of Manchester ever dreamt of playing for City growing up. It doesn’t even count, even before the financial doping and cheating.

If City win the title this season I’ll shrug. Who cares? Liverpool win and I’m crushed. Damn. A proper football club overtaking us again. Come on City, though I’d rather Arsenal.

City are fake. Their achievements mean nothing. For most of us their achievements bring no emotions at all. Totally neutral. Move on.
Fadida, Australia

City suspicions
With so much talk of FFP and possible punishments recently, perhaps City fans could take a step back and imagine how they would feel if another club was in the dock with 115 charges for dealings going back over a decade. How would you feel if another club had potentially robbed your team of a league title, a cup, a European spot and all the added income that goes with it? How would you feel if another club had potentially made a mockery of every team they’ve played for the past 15 years because they’ve cheated the system to get players in that gives them an unfair advantage on the pitch? Off the pitch it effects everyone too. A state with unlimited funds spending fortunes on transfer fees and wages leads to hyper-inflation. It drives prices up for everyone, which is great for City because they’re not operating as a business like 99.9% of other football clubs are so it gains them another unfair advantage. But it’s terrible for everyone else from the top of the pyramid to the bottom. Costs go up and as we’re seeing, most clubs cannot afford this in the long-term. It’s not sustainable and it’s no surprise to see so many teams in so much debt.
So if this was all another club, you’d be suspicious, angry and you’d want a swift resolution given how this has possibly distorted football in this country for so long. You cannot be surprised when other football fans ask questions and demand answers. Especially when City have dragged this out and refused to co-operate despite claiming they have evidence to prove their innocence. As someone else previously said in a mail, why spend money and damage your reputation for years if you can clear your name immediately? It doesn’t make any sense and it’s only one of so many questions people have about the seemingly shady operations of the club. Just to name a few….

Why are Man City still earning millions from image rights after they told UEFA’s investigators they had sold them in order to comply with FFP?

Why were win bonuses paid after the 2013 FA Cup Final despite the club losing the match?

Why did City settle with a 49 million fine for breaking UEFA’s FFP in 2014 yet still claim innocence?

Why are there so many reports of players and managers being paid off the books? Pep couldn’t even bring himself to deny this when asked.

Why aren’t City’s directors actually paid by City?

Why did City get to nominate 2 of the 3 judges at their CAS trial?

Why have Man City had lucrative sponsorship deals with betting companies based in countries where gambling is illegal and the picture of the CEO is a stock photo of a model?

Why do so many of Man City’s sponsors have links to Mubadala, a company owned by the UAE? Especially if their commercial appeal is the biggest in the world as claimed and why do they always vote against rule changes that want to assess or block related-party sponsorship deals?

Speaking of Mubadala, why did they pump 2 billion into Silver Lake before said company’s ‘investment’ into City?

The emails that City have never denied existing, how can they possibly be taken in any other context than the club faking the Etihad sponsorship, a company owned by Abu Dhabi?

Why are state representatives meeting with the sports minister and discussing Manchester City’s charges? Did Everton, Forest and Leicester’s owners get the same opportunity to discuss their charges? And why are the details of that meeting not allowed to be made public despite a freedom of information request?

Speaking of which, the amount of City fans who still deny the club is state owned is unreal, do some research into autocratic states and how they operate. There is no chance Mansour purchased the club without state involvement. Do these fans not want to know the truth, is it easier to bury your head in the blood-soaked sand? 15 years of this ownership has led some down a very dark path, where they are now willing to defend anything the owners of the club do. For example City fans on a very popular club forum are currently aiming some rather nasty personal attacks on a journalist because she dared to ask whether residents of Manchester should be concerned about how heavily the UAE is involved in the area given the terrible human rights record of the country.

Come on City fans, we all get you support your club, but do you have to defend everything the owners do and attack everyone who is critical? People will be rightly suspicious because of just how many question marks hang over the club and how much the sport in this country has been impacted as a result. Just consider for a second, this a state used to doing whatever it wants no matter how nefarious, aiding Russian oligarchs sanctioned by this country and helping Putin as a result, cosying up to war criminals like Bashar Al-Assad, the numerous acts of racism, homophobia, misogyny, torture and human rights abuses. All the vile things these people are capable of, yet you don’t believe they would ever go as far as breaking the rules of a sporting competition to achieve their aims? Really?

Suspiciously yours,
TB

​
…Thank you for the response Andy D, and please allow me to retort.

First and foremost, I have previously written before and mentioned how much of the structures in football are in preference to legacy clubs who are typically bigger and more affluent. I’ve mentioned how as time progresses, many of the rule changes go towards their benefit too.

From things such as having bigger stadiums and larger crowds, bringing in extra revenue and influencing referee decisions (OT, Anfield, Nou Camp, Bernabeu). To European competition structural changes (like next year’s format change) to allowing more substitutes and more substitutes to pick from(benefits clubs with deeper squads and pockets), and even with games now lasting beyond 100 mins (See previous point).

I even stated in the mail you responded to with “semi-fair competition” and “It’s not perfect, but it makes sense”.

You make it seem like a “Red Club Mafia” runs the entire European football ecosystem, as if all English clubs weren’t banned for Europe following years of success in the 80’s, or that they had much success in the following 2 decades.

As if the English league transforming into the Premier League was for their sole benefit whilst disregarding all the benefits brought to many teams across many years and even the Championship. As if being better organized, with better marketing and more money was a bad thing for the English game. As if only English clubs were in the G14, or that an expansion of the CL was bad for small teams…by allowing them compete in it without being champions?

Manchester United “Bought the league” is a common trope but they have only been the lead spending club for 3/31 PL seasons (99/00-02/03). While they do spend quite a bit, they spend what they have. You seem upset that Man Utd and the rest of the RCM(Red Club Mafia) don’t want their investments and stadium revenue going to smaller teams…who did not invest in their infrastructure? That Man Utd should give half their 3.91M matchday revenue, but Bournemouth just needs to give half of their 210K..Is that fair?

FFP allows for stadium, club and youth investments, without hurting the FFP rules. So rich owners can come in, invest in the infrastructure, and build clubs from the ground up that can compete – Brighton. City has done these investments well, but they have also broken the rules in tandem – fast just wasn’t fast enough.

What you are arguing for is that small and medium clubs should be able to buy their way to the top, as fast as possible, with disregard to the overall structure of the club, and with disregard for what happens if an owner is no longer there/interested. Such as being connected to an authoritarian government(Chelsea), or taking part in corruption and getting convicted (Man City – Not the current owners, the ones before).

You seem shocked clubs would act in their best interests, while somehow forgetting that’s exactly what Man City are doing. You also forget that Cheslea was allowed to spend lavishly during the 00’s and started the period of the Blue Club Mafia- currently 21 years and still going as lead league top spenders with poor old City stuck in second place (Talk about buying the league: No issues there I suspect).

The key difference is the other clubs were not breaking the rules everyone agreed upon. Like my example mentioned, it’s basically like them having extra transfer windows over the RCM and the rest, plus unlimited spend on managers and youth transfers. F365 pointed out Man City made almost 250M from player sales who never played for the club since just 2016.

You do correctly point out that FFP was brought in to stop clubs from being ruined financially (Heard Stuart Pearce say City were one SWP sale from financial ruin before your future corrupt owner/owners), but then bury it in your very own strawman argument. I’ve written in the past that corruption tries to make all things corrupt, so nobody can have faith in a system, and thus allowing it to all be corrupt and doubt in the system to reign free.

News today broke that Sam Bankman-Fried was sentenced to 25 years in jail for fraud. His actions made a multi-billion pound company a fraud, and no longer viable to continue as a crypto exchange. This is what happens when fraud is left to go unfettered. While his actions served him, they also ruined many people, families and did ruin FTX. This is my point about the PL and England as a whole. Once credibility is gone, it’s extremely hard to get back, and many will suffer because of it (Serie A/Italy).

I find many Man City’s fans’ reactions to all of this to be very similar to how Maga Americans are responding to Trump’s 91 criminal charges. Ranging from “it didn’t happen/He’s innocent” to “who doesn’t break the rules/ Others get let away with it”, to the “I don’t care, he can do what he wants/ The system is what is corrupt”. (I will add, Man City fans are not like Trumpers from my limited experiences, just that they sound the same when in defense of the club’s crimes).

Man City could have made all the structural investments they did, grew their youth teams as they did, and still had plenty of cash left over for transfers to grow organically, and most importantly, legally.They didn’t. Like Chelsea, they decided to go full steam ahead with disregard for the competition, those who play in it, and the country it represents as a whole.

Who knows for sure, but I suspect they would be competing for titles now had they had done so naturally. Maybe with a few less trophies, but also, with fewer asterix’s next to the trophies they do have.
Calvino (I will leave the onanism fantasy to you and your idea’s of fairness Andy)

Read more: Man City ‘expulsion’? Whatabout Liverpool, Arsenal and the other 17 Premier League cheats?

The City view
Well, Lee, that was a spectacularly inaccurate response to my initial missive, wasn’t it?

Firstly, you mention UEFA. I didn’t, of course, but seeing as you have, let’s get into it. We were found not guilty, by way of CAS stating that the hacked emails against us were a cut and shut job and just because the conversations took place, no evidence was found that they were actioned. In other words, City didn’t do what they were accused of. Can I just say that this snippet seems to be regularly overlooked by those in a state of righteous, perpetual, fury. Why? BECAUSE IT’S INCONVENIENT TO THOSE WHO DESPERATELY WANT CITY TO BE PUNISHED. No sponsorship deals were found to be fraudulent, either. The time barred stuff? Well, hard to comment on that because we just don’t know although when the PL’s case against us is heard, we’ll find out more.

Furthermore, SM Lee, you say the Club ‘acts guiltily’. Arf, that’s just ridiculous. What you really meant to say is, City won’t co-operate with an investigation that is incontrovertibly biased against them, that any investigation has been directed to find City guilty irrespective of whether they are or not. City have pled, Not Guilty. Those other clubs you mention, all pleaded guilty. I really don’t know why you and so many others find this difference so hard to grasp and understand because it seems pretty obvious to me.

I didn’t complain about everyone talking about expulsion. I complained about Football365’s ridiculous proliferation of entirely speculative articles designed to whip the unwashed into a frenzy. It worked too, didn’t it?

Furthermore, you said that City fans feel entitled to lesser punishments than others. Please point that out, please show me where any Blue has said that. I’ll be waiting a very…long…time…because you just invented that, didn’t you, SM Lee?

So, to sum up, SM Lee, all I said was that we wait until the verdict lands, then you should have your say. What’s actually wrong with that?

Apology accepted, thank you.

And as for Andreas, the United fan from St Albans (but…of course), he maintains that City don’t matter to him. Fair enough, clubs that I don’t support don’t matter to me either but I’ll be willing to lay a tenner (are you listening Bet365?) that you were very, very bothered when City won 6-1 at The Sty. I’ll bet that you were very, very bothered when City best United to the League with the most iconic Premier League moment ever. I’ll be that you were very, very bothered when City hired Pep despite Fergusons’ attempts at tapping him up for united . I’ll be that you were very, very bothered when City went on to win multiple titles, beat united in the FA Cup to then go on and win THE Treble (not a second tier one, note, scousers).

Oh, I’ll bet that you were very, very bothered then. The whole premise of your letter says that you’re very, VERY, bothered. I mean, that’s a lot of words to not be arsed, in the slightest.

Right, hopefully, that’s that all cleared up for everyone, now.

Back to Work although it’s lovely to be Helping, again.
Levenshulme Blue, Manchester 19
PS, I’ll also bet that I get inaccurate replies to this email, too.

…Lee, I have a few points to counter your arguments.

City do not have to “prove their innocence”. That’s not the way it works. The burden of proof is on the FA.
It is taking too long because there are so many charges. If the FA had cherry-picked 3-4 charges that they thought they could definitely prove and gone with them this would probably be all over. As it is, City have to answer all 115 different charges. Until they’re all settled none are.
Just to play along with your game, how about this?
FA : “We believe you have been breaking the rules and lying about breaking the rules.”

City : “No. We have irrefutable evidence that we are innocent and we will show you.”

FA : “Excellent can you bring it to court? We’d like to get this resolved”

City : “Of course we will. But you have to show us the evidence you have that says we are guilty….and it can’t be stolen emails because they going to get thrown out of court.”
Dave Hoffman

Name game
I am glad that you also go direct to Moy-ez when thinking of David Moyes. I am often mocked in the pub for this and thought I was the only one.

With regards to Toney though. I instinctively think of Toe-Knee.

A few others:

I’m always thinking of Doctor Ogba for Drogba.
DJ I.M.I Traore for Djimi Traore
The classic Sir Jaurier for Serge Aurier.
Then Bill Phabb – Phil Babb.
Bodych (LFC)