Liverpool fans feel ‘cheated’? Everton have complaints too

Have a look at our bonus Sunday Mailbox and send more Everton v Liverpool thoughts to theeditor@football365.com.

Pretty much

Bloody hell.
Aidan, EFC, London

Offsnide

Didn’t realise offside included the hair on your arms.
Max, Melbourne

I’m still pro VAR, I would just prefer if the people operating it weren’t drunk
Dan, Plastic LFC 

I mean, say what you like about VAR, but you’ve got to admit that the widely overlooked decision to contract out in-game video review to BlueNoseToffeeDecisions4U has really started to pay dividends.
Tom, wronged, LFC

The premier league seems determined to enforce the “offside is offside” interpretation of the law, regardless of how small the gap is between defender and attacker. I have no problem with using this interpretation so long as you can accurately measure it! For example, in tennis hawk eye cameras can determine to <1mm whether a ball is in or out and so it works. The issue with VAR in football is that although the decisions being made on offside are often very precise it’s unclear if they are accurate or not due to the number of variables and vague interpretations that need to be made:

1) offside is now determined by the t shirt line – where does a t shirt end? Is it the literal t shirt the player is wearing (in which case what about long sleeves) or is it some kind of imaginary t shirt officials have to determine? If it is the latter – how is this done? Is there an accepted measurement scale to judge this (eg 5 cm from the arm pit) – if there isnt then how can they possibly make offside calls within less than a couple of centre meters?

2) when is the screen shot taken for the var measurements? From the Thiago offside it was clear from the motion blur that the ball had already left his foot – is this somehow taken into account?

3) how are the lines determined? Is it algo driven or drawn by humans? This makes a huge difference in terms of accuracy

All in all it’s seems that the premier league wants to enforce overly precise decisions despite large accuracy issues with the current system. I suggest a less accurate (but fairer) solution similar to that used in rugby or cricket of “umpires call” when the decision is too tight to tell.
Alex (Thiago is a joy to watch), London

Reaction to the reaction

Jeez, I get that you can be upset about losing your captain and having a winner chalked off for a horrendous decision. I would have been upset had Rodríguez been forced off after one off van Dijks early reducers on him, or Allan injured after Robertsons lash out at him, or had Alexander-Arnold scored from the freekick after Manés dive, and, and, and… It’s a football game, with multiple questionable decisions for both teams.

Richarlison’s foul has no place in the game; Pickford creates chaos in his penalty box and should be dropped. It’s a shame for the game when good players miss because of injuries and refereeing decisions dominate the post match discussion.

Comments like “against a team which I had labelled enjoyable to watch until they decided to go all WWE on us today” and “employing thuggish challenges to put players out of the game, constantly whining to the officials” are a bit OTT – two bad incidents don’t colour an entire team. Calm down, lads. Bit upset you didn’t get your biennial Everton capitulation to hand you 6 points. Much more balanced views from James Outram from the Wirral, good to have some local perspective.

Hopefully the decisions against Liverpool and Man Utd will force the FA to re-review their stance on VAR and put some actual change in place. Though for once, it’s good to see the team at the top of the league once again get the breaks.

Cheers
Matt, EFC, London

Is there a more entitled collective around than Liverpool? The hysteria and out cry from a couple of decisions going against them for once is unreal.

They weren’t the only ones affected by VAR in that game( you wouldn’t know it of course as the pro-LFC comms barely covered it and MOTD of course showed nothing of it- wouldn’t suit the agenda)

Robertson’s cynical hack on Allan

Mane kicking out at Mina despite already being booked

TAA with a massive handful of Richarlisons shirt as he headed against the post.

They seem to develop amnesia for all the ridiculous decisions that have gone in their favour over the years the instant one goes against them, and are now having the most almighty of tantrums.

Finally VVD clattered James and DCL within the first 90 seconds trying to be the big hard man, certainly a whiff of Karma about what happened next.
Ian, EFC

Eurgh

I only managed to read 5 of your Eve-Liv conclusions before realizing that my impressions of the game (and its refs) were correct. To read the other 11 just didn’t make sense as, to paraphrase Roy Hodgson; I’m losing interest in the game.

– Pickford confirmed that he’s a very poor decision maker and a reckless goalkeeper, bred in a generation of gk’s believing, (thx to over protecting refs and football associations) that they (gk’s) can do whatever they want inside their own area without being punished.

– VAR reared its ugly head again, showing us lines on the screen, none of them explanatory, nor conclusive. If they intend to keep the system, they need to do much better in communicating why the decisions (for or against) are made  As it is now, it creates more debate, (on the pitch, in the tv-studios, pubs etc) than it takes away. I.e. exactly what part of Mané’s and VvD’s bodies were offside, why wasn’t Timo Werners handball before his second goal punished etc.

Without VAR you could at least understand (if not accept) that some decisions were/weren’t given because of the refs inability due to his positioning or the speed of the game but with VAR, any refereeing error will always carry the suspicion of bias or gross incompetence on the VAR staffs part.

– Richarlison will most likely get a great deal of goodwill since he apologised for the horror tackle that sent Thiago to the hospital. Don’t let that distract from his general behaviour in this match and others nor his reaction to the red card, taking ages to get off the pitch after the card. Don’t give me any ”heat of the moment” excuses, it’s clear he believed he’d done nothing wrong and his apology after the game stinks of agent/media advisor intervention trying to protect the value of their asset.

– It’s a pity Diogo Jota didn’t continue to run after the ball that went out for a goal kick towards the end of the game. Had he done so he would’ve been clattered by that moron Pickford making a goal celebration style slide on his knees, (what’s this guy’s problem/s?), although it’s far from sure this would’ve been a penalty given the application of the rules earlier in this game. (And before anyone starts, no the challenge on VvD couldn’t have been a penalty since he was deemed offside but Pickford could and should still have been sent off. This is according to the laws of the game and follows the logic that just because there is a break in play, you cannot shoot an opponent in the leg with a 9mm expecting to stay on the pitch). As Pickford’s attack on VvD wasn’t penalised, there probably wouldn’t have been any penalty for this one either, oh why do I bother..
Mattias (it’s not VAR’s fault, it’s the incompetence of those using it that is genuinly ruining the beauty and charm of the game) Nilsson

Change the system

After watching the merseyside derby something occurred to me. There’s a good chance the Pickford decision will be reviewed and he will get banned. Which means 1 (or more) random teams who had nothing to do with the merseyside derby will benefit from what happened during.

This seems stupid to me.

Yes I know it’s about punishing the offending team but the damage is done at the point and many teams would think it’s a worth sacrifice. Think about key games like city Vs Liverpool for example – you think mane would have risked a red card against city a couple of years ago by flying a high boot if he’d known that he would be banned from the next 3 games against city?

For teams in a situation like this they might look at their schedule and think it’s worth taking that risk when you’re next three games are against “easy” teams.

I’d like to see a change made where any player receiving a ban during a game or applied retroactively receives a ban for the same fixture in future.

This would make players think more carefully about potentially career damaging challenges and would also make the ban system fair for all sides involved.

I know people think the game is “getting soft” these days but players have longer careers now in part thanks to medical advances but also due to the fact the league seems to care a little about their health and wellbeing. I don’t want to see any players out due to injuries from avoidable circumstances because people think they’re “being soft”. Some players act up but you know what that happens anyway.

Bone crunching challenges might give people sentimental memories of the past but that’s what a caveman does because he has no talent. I never saw, baresi, maldini, thuram making bone crunching tackles. most of those players rarely went to ground at all because to them defending is a skill.

I realised I’ve meandered a little in this email but I genuinely think the game will improve and tackles will be better if we institute a change where players are banned from the same fixture, not random ones.
Lee

Numb with rage

I’m still sitting here an hour after the game is over staring blankly at the tv and genuinely feeling cheated out of that three points. News is also filtering through that both VVD and Thiago have knee injuries and have gone for scans.

I’ve also just read 16 conclusions and it bafflingly made out that Everton played well and deserved a draw.  Bar 15 minutes at the start of the second half, to my eyes Liverpool were by miles the better team. Everton seemed to want to just go out and kick us around the pitch as usual.

As for VAR-well if Mané was offside then fine we have to accept it – even if it does suck the joy out of things. But Pickford’s assault on VVD? That is pure incompetence from the VAR. Wasnt he the same  guy who was in the box for Man Utd v Liverpool at OT last season? The one who allowed United’s goal to stand whilst ruling  out Mané’s? That official should be fired no question. And why isnt there more than one person looking at VAR?

Anyway fingers crossed for VVD and Thiago. But this result really stings.
Derek, lfc, Dublin

You’ll probably need three separate mailboxes for all the angry Liverpool fans. I’m one of those. And while I’m angry about the last minute winner being called back for offside, I’m more angry at a few more things.

1 – Pickford not even considered to have done anything wrong. If he doesn’t hack and VVD then he most likely doesn’t get injured and is still on the pitch to head away the cross that DCL equalized from.

2 – This is the main reason I’m angry. Liverpool shouldn’t have been in the situation where they’re giving out about VAR. Salah, Mané and Matip all squandered chances. The game should’ve been out of sight.
Culk the Younger

What a game

I feel I’m very lucky to have been indoctrinated from an early age to support one of the ‘big six’, and that I’ve been spoiled for the last two seasons watching the best Liverpool side in my lifetime rack up points and trophies.

Which is why it’s particularly important to try and be philosophical and magnanimous if possible. Firstly, congrats to Villa from the other week. Incredible performance and result, and I’m sick of ‘lesser’ clubs not getting the credit they deserve because they outplayed a ‘big’ side. It’s possible to be the better side, not just because the other team played badly.

As for today’s game, of course I’m disappointed to not come away with three points after what looked like a legitimate goal was chalked off. I love how Mané wasn’t even facing the goal, and his feet are so far ahead of the offside line yet gained an advantage and was thus called. Plus the mad Pickford tackle/decision. All a bit mental at Goodison.

But it’s important to acknowledge that, Everton were resilient and it’s not their fault the wrong decision was reached. I thought they deserved a point on the balance of play; Pickford didn’t get a red and so the game continued.

What’s really exciting is that there are two bloody brilliant sides in Liverpool right now. So pleased for Calvert-Lewin as an Englishman, and that we have Multiple European Cup Winning Ancelotti still working his magic in the Premier League.

It sucks we didn’t get the result. It sucks that VAR and refereeing is often inexplicable. But that was a fun game of football (obviously not suggesting people have to get hurt nor condoning some of the tackles) and fair play to Everton for showing there’s something more about them this year.

Obviously I hope we smash them at Anfield. 😉

Have a good Sunday, all!
Stu, Southampton

Ten more years

Dear Editor,

Just a quick one on this. You’ll get lots of opinion on Van Dijk, Thiago, Richarlison (always has been dirty – dislike him intensely) and Pickford. But one thing struck me after all that.

Everton are in form, at home, playing their best football in 30 years, top class manager, took out our best defender (player?) early on, benefitted from an obviously incorrect VAR call (or two) and they still, STILL couldn’t beat us.

TEN MORE YEARS.

Cheers,
Marc