Liverpool fans rally round ‘classless’ Klopp after Conte’s Spurs shut up shop…
The Mailbox features Liverpool fans fighting Jurgen Klopp’s corner. Obviously. Also: Man City’s ruthlessness, karma, Cristiano Ronaldo, and Frank Lampard.
Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com…
Karma
What a rather marvellous weekend of football.
Last week I got stuck into those Liverpool supporters who just COULDN’T resist piling on City after the CL defeat. Pep’s time was up, KDB and Foden should leave and, my personal favourite, that City would now ‘bottle’ the PL as they did the CL. I finished that mail by stating that some (repeat some) Liverpool supporters should look up the definition of Karma.
Well, you’ll never guess what happened on Saturday night and Sunday evening?
And, although I have no idea what F365 will decide to print on Monday morning’s mailbox, I’m absolutely certain that it won’t be dominated by mails from City fans stating that Klopp’s time is up or that Henderson is sh*t and needs to leave as does TAA if he wants to win trophies or any other smug, self-satisfied bullsh*t.
I promise I won’t bring up Karma again if Liverpool fail to win either the FA cup (unlikely as Chelsea seem to be massively self-imploding), the CL or the Prem.
Mark (That’s an absolute lie. I definitely will. Maybe, just maybe, ‘some’ Liverpool supporters will then finally grasp the point). MCFC.
Toon tonked
Blimey, if Pep wanted to prove City could be ruthless bast*rds, then he made his point. That was a right humping, even worse than I’d feared. It’s clear that I was asking for it when I crowed over ManUtd’s capitulation on Saturday.
Also, I hope Matt Targett worked up the nerve to ask Sterling for his shirt after the match. He sure worked hard enough to pull it off him. The referee seemed almost embarrassed to have to book him for repetitive, flagrant, and entirely ineffective fouling. There are no doubt limits to what wor Mattie can handle, but I can’t fault his commitment.
Chris C, Toon Army DC
Great-est ever? Nah
Having a bit of trouble with the current hagiography. Liverpool’s greatest team – seriously? The guys who won three European Cups in a row might have something to say, for a start.
The current team basically has two plays; counter-attacking long ball to Mane/Salah after an opposition mistake in Liverpool’s half (Leicester 2016 say hi, btw), and the Van Dijk corner. Deep crosses whipped in from the full-backs are really just a version of the first tactic.
Just like that all-conquering Leicester team, it’s very exciting to watch but can come unstuck when a good team with a good coach decides to play deep, and counter-attack back. Most don’t, but Conte and Spurs did, and obviously, Klopp doesn’t like this one bit – why would he, it’s his only real plan.
Plan B is problematic because they don’t create anything through midfield. Even the recently sainted Thiago makes very few assists, and I’d be surprised if their whole midfield accounted for more than 10-15% of their assists in total.
So best of all time – not for me. You need more than kick and rush to be the best.
I definitely prefer watching them to Man City’s usual grind though.
Matthew (ITFC)
Classless Klopp
Klopp has made me bite with his now well known post match comments after Saturday evening most notably saying that Spurs “should do more for the game” (whatever that means) and that he could not coach low possession, low block football.
Now Klopp is the kind of manager that if he was your own you would love – not only is he talented and successful but you’d love his attitude, the bear hugs, the laughing when winning, etc. But he’s without doubt one of the managers I dislike most because of how bad a loser he is (he admits this so he’s self aware at least) and that aspect of his game I’d be disappointed with even if he was Spurs manager (he’d have to get used to losing a lot more too…).
The first and most obvious point is that football is about getting results and you can do that in any way you like as long as it’s within the rules. Why on earth should Spurs (or frankly any team other than City) show up to the most difficult away ground in the league and try to go toe-to-toe? Spurs would almost certainly lose and lose heavily.
But the second point is that it’s absolutely untrue that Klopp hasn’t done these tactics. Before Liverpool were the all conquering team they are today, against the better teams, Klopp very much played the kind of low possession, low block, counter attacking football that Spurs did yesterday.
It wasn’t difficult to think of examples I could look up. Most notably in the famous Champions League QF vs Man City in 2018, Liverpool had 38% possession at home and 36% possession away. In the away game they blocked 12 shots (City blocked 0) and made 28 clearances (City made 8). In both games, City had more than twice the number of successful passes. Against Dortmund away in the 2016 Europa League, Liverpool had 36% possession in a 1-1 draw. For the Barcelona 4-0 game at Anfield, Barcelona actually had significantly more possession despite the score line. In the final that year (crying emoji…), Liverpool only had 39% possession and made 189 passes compared with Spurs making 428.
I take nothing away from any of those games. Liverpool do not need to play a certain way to get the result they want – they can play however they like and I won’t criticise. They scored early in a lot of them too so didn’t need to push on – again, perfectly legitimate. But it’s simply not true that Klopp doesn’t play with these tactics when he feels it’s required. He doesn’t need to do it so much any more because he’s built a brilliant team capable of almost always being front foot. Spurs clearly aren’t in that place at the moment.
The only real question is whether a draw was enough for Spurs and whether they should have really pushed on in the last 15 mins. Personally, I think this would have almost certainly resulted in one point fewer for Spurs. But in any event, that wasn’t the point Klopp was making.
Other successful coaches manage to have class in defeat. Klopp is a great coach – but he really can be classless.
Jon L, Kew
Klopp’s ‘sour grapes’
Seeing the mailbox headline about Klopp’s ‘sour grapes’ I just knew it would be the Wolves fan John who relentlessly writes in to moan about a manager from a non rival team. Seriously, John seems like the bitter kind of guy who will relish his own team losing to Manchester City next week as long as it puts a dent in Liverpool’s slim title chances.
And looking at the quote there, what really is the problem with what Jurgen has said? He offered an opinion that he doesn’t like the tactic of time wasting from the outset, feigning injury etc. Is that really so controversial? Has he got it wrong and in fact everyone prefers to watch Atletico Madrid shithouse their way to a result?
Do you know what he also said later in the interview?
“I respect everything they do, but it’s not me.”
What a c*nt.
Perhaps John would be happier if we simply had robotic, media trained managers offering bland, insincere platitudes during every interview.
James Outram, Wirral
…There was some very selective clipping going with many people criticising klopp for saying “I don’t like this kind of football”
But nobody actually showing the part where he then called spurs world class and giving them credit.
And is it any surprise that a manager who plays attacking football doesn’t like defensive football? Isn’t klopp entitled to his opinion or is it only valid if he praises all kinds of football.
I suppose I get it. When a manager like klopp, guardiola or ancelotti says they don’t like the way you play football it must sting a little. Like Scarlett Johansson saying you’re an ugly tw*t.
Personally I don’t like defensive football. When Rafa and houllier did it, I didn’t like it. Sure I enjoyed the wins but I rarely watched the games for the same reason I don’t watch burnley but are happy to watch Brighton – I find defensive physical games boring. I don’t find it impressive or skillful because anyone can be physical, hit the gym and congrats now you can be physical. But to have grace skill and poise like Zidane, the OG Ronaldo or Messi? That takes talent and dedication to your craft.
That’s my take and I’m entitled to it. So is jurgen and so are the people who say they don’t like how Liverpool play too. Can’t we just accept everyone is entitled to that opinion?
Lee
Cranky Klopp
Klopp whinging about spurs made me think. Are all top managers sore losers? Are they incapable of praising or acknowledging a team who has gained a result in a reasonably fair manner? Is it a necessity? It’s like a politician deflecting or trying to ignore an issue rather than apologise, as if doing the right thing is a sign of weakness.
Klopp is a fantastic manager but moaning about teams having the temerity to use fair tactics to get points against his team makes him and other top managers look like arseholes at times.
Give me more managers like Graham Potter any day.
Tom
…Just seen Arsenal are now 4 points ahead of you and wondered if you were still celebrating the point at Anfield like a big win?
Andrew. (Still cannot get over a team chasing 4th from behind, time wasting whilst drawing in last 10 minutes?)
No complaints if City seal it
Saturday night hurt. Really hurt!
But in the cold light of day, I realise I’ve become a prime example of the modern day “entitled” football fan!
So used to our mighty reds wiping all before them (through passion every bit as much as talent), I “expected” another win against spurs. Completely forgetting we were up against a top manager and a team which is also top quality, using the tools of a team who have been playing must win games every few days for several weeks now!!
But this team has done us immensely proud this year, and I’m deeply proud they are my team!
I can’t really complain when city lift the PL again. They have deserved it, having been the best team over what is a mighty long season. The marathon amidst the series of short sprints of cup competitions. There’s no denying a PL win. I’ve been on this earth too long to be begrudging of s slice of luck here and there or calling for a dodgy VAR. congrats to city.
City have been hammering opposition whilst we’ve been edging 1-nils against Newcastle. Can’t really argue with that.
And Jurgen “we don’t want to be the best team, just the team who can beat the best”. Sounds like serial cup winners, not PL winners to me.
I love you my reds. We have soul that no Sheik is rich enough to acquire with something as simple as cash. YNWA.
Bob, Chester
…Well is that the quad over? A totally ridiculous concept that we’ve all clung on to so that football is more interesting than City winning it. Its gone from probably not going to happen to probably not going to happen. No one is expecting City to drop points. The idea that the city players spent the last few days drinking in bed with the curtains closed and not getting ready to take it all out on the next club in their way is a nice thought but does them a disservice.
The draw seemed like a fair result. Anyone not Liverpool is painted as this massive underdog but Spurs are a good side and becoming a Conte team. This was one of the two games left this season that even Spurs can be bothered to turn up for. The other being the NLD. Obviously a much longer rest and prep period between games but that’s what big teams have to deal with.
Conte definitely got hold of his team at half time. His defence were giving away terrible fouls on the edge of the area. But interestingly in areas where Liverpool don’t seem to get many free kicks. Salah was fouled 3 times which is 6x his usual rate.
Certainly not winning the quad isn’t a failure. This team were predicted to finish 4th this year by many. It was meant to be over for Klopp and this team. It’s not. That’s brilliant.
Alex, South London
Kane and Son can’t be happy…
Rob, Dorset winning the Sunday award for most stupid take possible from a single game. Same as those who said Simeone had figured out a blueprint to beat us in 2020. Given we literally have gone unbeaten for 5 months now it means everyone in football is stupid or Simeone rode his luck and had a hyper organised team on that day back in March 2020.
Spurs were very organised but also made a number of mistakes. Lloris gave the ball away under no pressure, Davies and Sessegnon got caught in possession. On another day when we aren’t bloody knackered and Mo and Trent aren’t simultaneously off form we find a result possibly.
The only other thing I’ll add to the discussion is that I wonder what Kane and Son think at the end of the season. Top teams don’t vary tactics so dramatically for the biggest games of the season and Conte making the adjustment shows what he thinks of the overall squad and their ability to truly compete at the top level. He’s obviously decided to employ a certain tactic (successfully, I’ll add) to level the playing field against Man City and Liverpool but that makes this Spurs team more Benitez than even our Rodgers variation. Essentially the current team has no chance of competing for serious honours and maybe them seeing this tactical setup and then losing to Brighton with no shots on target will tell them that it’s time to move on if they ever want actual success.
I’m not saying this to upset Spurs fans but seriously answer this question; what has Kane seen unfold this season at Spurs that would make him want to stay? Let’s assume you come top 4. Why does he stick around to get knocked out in the quarter finals by the sort of club he could still get a move to this summer. How much money are Spurs spending compared to Man Utd and Newcastle to try and bridge the gap to Man City (who will spend £100m+ this summer).
Minty, LFC
Pogba to City
Please sign Paul Pogba Man City. He’s already ruined one manchester club and I’d like him to ruin the other to make next season easier.
Simon LFC… duh
Manchester City and Paul Pogba push all the right transfer narrative buttons
Why Ronaldo was a good signing
Here’s the thing they with the “Ronaldo isn’t good for Man Utd” debate. It was true. At the start of the season, Utd were going places, who knew were but they were, much like Arteta’s Arsenal, they were showing signs of getting a groove together (Utd were actually ahead of Arsenal at this time groovegetting-wise). Then the unthinkable happened, Ronaldo and his camp let it be known he was no longer happy in Turin and would be seeking a move. PERFECT for Man City, exactly what they needed, Pep gets a lot of guff for his lack of a natural finisher but I’ve always felt since Aguero left that it’s just leaving a position open for whoever’s going to spearhead adequately. Ronaldo definitely fit that criteria. And alas, pride spells the end for Olé’s crack at Man Utd. City became the favourites to sign R9, and Utd pride exemplified by a phone call/text from Alex Ferguson to Ronaldo not to pick City and come home swayed all decisions, and Olé’s fate.
United had been building on an overall general identity growth with very savvy Summer business. Ronaldo’s incoming took the wind out of Sancho’s purchase which would have been good enough to be the big acquisition, it made holding onto Cavani pretty much moot, same with Varane being paraded onto Old Trafford, the goodwill for him was immense and it was reciprocated and then in a matter of days all was forgotten and none of it mattered anymore because Man Utd went from being a slowly but surely progressing team to a Ronaldo + friends situation.
Ronaldo is a hard guy to buy. He’s going to take center stage and that’s kind of inarguable. He should, and if you disagree he’ll remind you that he should very soon. City as it was, and still to this day, were a perfect fit. A totally complete team just looking for a striker. PSG would absolutely have gone for it but unless they play four forwards it wouldn’t happen. Bayern are completely content with Lewandowski, Madrid would have been an option but he’d done everything there and he wasn’t affordable. City seemed the smart move, but United’s desperation not to be outmanoeuvred by the blue side of Manchester to the detriment of everything else was an irresistible offer.
I think if he never went back to OT then United would be sitting 3rd, gradually making up ground on the runaways and you’d have to say considering where they were, things were going quite well.
That is why in the long run, Ronaldo resigning was a good bit of business and holding onto him for next season will be even better. He demands a top team at best, and at worst a team that aspires to be a top team. With Olé, that may have happened in due time, but it still wouldn’t have happened anytime in the next 3 or 4 years. It was as gradual a rebuild as you’re gonna get, it was working, but this approach is verrrrryyyyy sloooooowwww. I think every season they’d be about 5 points better off than the one before it. Eventually, where they finish will be 20 points better than where they finished one year. That’s best case scenario of course. I think it was actually closer to gaining 2 points every year. That is a mid table kind of aspiration, the kind of thing Villa will be looking to.
Ronaldo was a good signing in that it reminded United where they SHOULD be trying to get to, the very top. Olé might have done it eventually, but it wouldn’t last. I dont think anyone could see Olé having the will to rule the premier league with an iron fist. It was “make this club proud again”, that was the thing. Pride is fine but trophies are better and bring pride anyway.
So Utd crashed this season by going in a completely different direction than their plans where but long term it may have been the right decision. Ronaldo looks happy and like he isn’t going to leave, but at this stage of his career does he want to be a leader or does he want to be a leader who still wins the biggest things? They will finish a far off the pace 6th/7th this season, so anything other than a guarantee of rapid improvement next year may not be enough to keep him interested. As I write this though there would usually already be a swell of rumour leading to an eventual outcome regarding transfers, but that hasn’t happened so far, which indicates that he is happy to be part of Ten Hag’s plans, and you know he’ll be wanted by him too.
So yeah, good transfer overall, it disrupted a period of progress that wasn’t felt in a long time but that was probably a good thing as Oléball wasn’t the right kind of progress. Growth isn’t what United are after, they grew for 25 years after all.
Dave (Nketiah is underrated), Dublin
And why he wasn’t
Professor (Dr) David Achanfuo Yeboah undermines the professorial gravitas he is obviously attempting to establish by including his full academic titles with the use of a full caps ‘PERIOD’ to ram home his point about Ronaldo.
What the Professor (Dr) really gets wrong though is when he repeats this fallacy that Ronaldo would score loads of goals for Liverpool or Manchester City. Ronaldo wouldn’t get near these sides in the first place because of the way they play. He talks about him banging them in for Real Madrid, which is laughable as they were happy to take the money from Juventus and run in 2018. He’s been pacing himself and doing very little off the ball work for at least 5 years now. Obviously, he can still do magical things on his day, but it’s been sad to see him declining before our very eyes this year. When United have the ball on the counter they can’t move it as fast because Ronaldo hasn’t the legs anymore. Players often catch him even when he has a 5 yard head start and he looks winded after these sprints nowadays.The lightning speed of thought he used to have only comes in waves now. It’s also evident that lots of the players defer to him unnecessarily, with countless examples of players electing to pass to him when they themselves have been better placed to shoot . He was supposed to be the catalyst for Juventus winning a Champions League – look how that worked out. Just because he’s scored the most goals ever doesn’t mean he can’t hold back teams in his autumn years. He’s already done it – twice.
Pablo, MUFC, Dublin.
Lamps in
I think it’s more than fair to say that as of right now, Frank Lampard is the right man for the job of keeping Everton up.
TX Bill EFC
…It will not last, and there will be twists and turns at both ends of the table, but can I just say that I’ve had a lovely, lovely weekend football wise.
Aidan, EFC, London (think we’re still going down!)
Postcard from Northern Ireland
Dramatic scenes on Saturday as Crusaders beat Ballymena United 2-1 to win the Irish Cup. The Crues looked jittery in the first half. Ballymena led through a Robbie Weir own goal. Stephen Baxter, the Crues manager, said his team was “brutal” for the first hour. Only when Declan Caddell (who played his last game – what a way to finish his career!) and Jordan Owens came on did the tide turn. In the dying seconds of normal time, Jonny Tuffey (the Crues GK) came up and nodded down a corner for Josh Robinson to equalise. Cue pandemonium. It was a moment of redemption for Tuffey who was sent-off in the cup semi-final penalty shootout(!) last season. The Crues were on top in extra-time but the game seemed destined for penalties, then in dying seconds, Johnny McMurray popped up with an amazing volley from just inside the box – one of the best finishes you’ll ever see. Joy and elation for the Crues, heartbreak for Ballymena.
It was the first cup final with no restrictions since 2019 and the 8,000 fans made it a brilliant spectacle. It was great to see silverware back at Seaview for the first time in three years. The club have had a couple of iffy seasons recently and I think there was a definite sense that we were on the wane, so this Cup win is fantastic and it gives European football to look forward to next season. Next season we’ll have the new investment from the mysterious Irama – a situation that I don’t think will end well for the Crues, but at the least the current regime ends with silverware. There’s nothing quite like being at the social club with the players and getting your hands on the trophy. All in all, a great day for the Crues.
Matthew, Belfast
