What did Van Dijk say that was so wrong? Liverpool copped it more than Man Utd…
The Mailbox brings the backlash to the backlash of Virgil van Dijk’s interview in the wake of the Man Utd draw. Also: Anfield atmosphere; City’s problem; tear-jerking Toffees…
Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com.
The power we wield
Matthew (off outside to find some branches to self-flagellate), you can’t blame yourself for that nil all draw with us – because your fate was entirely in my hands. Or to be more precise – my legs.
You see, my fellow born-in-1970-atheist-but-football-god-botherer, for the first time in my life, I had made the decision not to watch a Utd-Liverpool game. Mostly because I had to drop my son to his train at that very time, you understand, and nothing to do with last year’s score-that-shan’t-be-named. But as it turned out, the little tyke has finished college for Christmas, so I had no excuse.
My eldest put the game on in the playroom, and I stood in the doorway muttering something about needing to wash the dishes but maybe would watch the first five minutes, or until it was 2-0, whichever came first. But we survived those first five minutes, and then the next, and the rabid screaming of the Kop was working its usual magic on me – all their righteous anger over an opposition player daring to touch a beloved Scouser, their high-pitched pulling their hair out over a ref not awarding them every single decision – and I found myself aggressively willing us to smash the ball into the net, or failing that unlikely scenario, smashing one of your darling buds into the hoarding.
And the longer the game went on, and more Scouse passes went astray, and more resolute defending was performed by our (checks notes) eighth centre-back pairing of the season, I began to become infected by that most insidious of football diseases – hope. (Spurs fans are particularly prone to this terror, I believe). And several times during the match my wife passed by, or came to see how much we were losing by this time, and each time she asked me would I not be more comfortable sitting down.
But, dear Matthew, both you and I know that the very second I sat down on that comfy couch, feeling in any way satisfied with the way the game was going, Salah would have remembered it was us he was playing against and smashed, headed, dribbled, kneed or arsed one into the net, and it would be all over. So no, Matthew, the footballing gods may have liked to punish you, and that whole baying Anfield crowd, and the 11 players, for believing another shellacking was an inevitability, but all such punishment was on hold because somewhere in Ireland a 53 year old man refused to sit down. Sorry, but that’s just reality.
Christopher.
PS – I’ve just realised, the only games we’ve watched in the playroom this season have been two impressive wins and our nil-all defeat of the Pool. Dammit! No more living room big screen football for me – my team needs me!
PPS – I lost count of the times Michael Oliver waved advantage to Liverpool for the most innocuous of touches yesterday; I’m convinced he did it purely as a ruse to shut that whining crowd up.
Van Dijk’s crime?
I’m not one of the mob who say today’s football is not as good as the past. Though of course VAR has taken away many a beautiful and flowing team goal because of an erroneous armpit, or perceived nudge 5 mins earlier on the half way line, and instead gifted us pathetically soft free kicks and inconsistently awarded penalties in which to turn what had been even ties, which is a shame. That’s not a trade I’m overly happy with, but things are still okay.
I’m not one of the rabid mob that say refereeing is getting worse, or have some frankly dangerous and lunatic comments about PGMOL. I think reff-ing is significantly better now than the 90’s. Just easily and demonstrably so. I think reff-ing is better now than in the “10’s” or whatever the bloody decade was called. I think there’s an argument that reff-ing between ’01-’09 was the best it’s ever been. But where things are now is just laughably not a low, in any way shape or form, that those arguing it is are either too young and ignorant, or just tiresome bores. (I often find that particular venn diagramme encapsulates the Arsenal fans in the mailbox, and they’ve thankfully taken the mantle from what had been bed-wettingly simple LFC fans in the past)
But christ where i do think things are getting very, very, very much worse, is how the media desperately peddle what are fairly innocuous post match comments into perpetual arse-gravy of the lowest calibre.
The VVD comments have been unavoidable, and i’ve genuinely tried.
In answer to the specific question of whether he felt frustrated, he gave an answer of why he was frustrated.
He said: “There was only one team trying to win the game”
He then, immediately clarified: “We want to win every game of course and that is why it is frustrating. Sometimes we shot too easy and could have passed on the overlap. The right decision was sometimes lacking.
Back to United: “We carry on of course but it is frustrating because we were superior in all aspects. In the end they are buzzing with a point and we are disappointed with a point.
But in conclusion: “Obviously they are not in the best phase. Coming here you are wary of the threat we have. We should have won it today. We have to learn from certain situations and I know we will”
For almost double the length of time that he spoke about United, he spoke about why what LFC did was wrong / not good enough. He also, fairly articulated the point that United were happy (because they clearly were, and are still), and LFC weren’t. And to double down, the reason they weren’t happy was because LFC bollocked it up and needed to learn from it.
And he did this immediately after the game, when tired, and specifically asked what was frustrating him.
That’s a fairly boring answer, and the press have dragged it arse-first through a translator to desperately get an abridged quote. Presumably because Jurgen didn’t give them anything. And that’s why you get Ash’s ramble in the last mailbox about VVD’s “sour-grapes”. Sour grapes in an interview where he repeatedly said LFC weren’t good enough. Okay mate. sure. Thanks for your contribution. Your detailed retort was a lengthy version of exactly what he already said, that you aren’t in a great moment.
It’s hard to not become some form of rabid ‘truth-er’ with this sort of nonsense but i’m at the point now that when there’s a headline about what a player said, I’m inclined to believe they literally said the absolute opposite. Bore-off with it all. It’s generating some absolute tosh ‘debate’. It’s not an anti LFC thing; it’s across every club.
To try and foster a bit of debate about the game itself. would love to hear LFC fans thoughts on moving Darwin back left and having Gakpo up top again. And i’m starting to like current Form Kostas as much as Robbo; does he get bac in the side straight away? As Gomez improves Konate seems to be regressing. Is hoping Thiago can, in the title run-in, add balance to this midfield a ludicrous hope that his frail body should have dashed long ago?
Tom G
Read more: Van Dijk ‘hits back’ at Roy Keane and his ‘rant’ by saying he likes him!
That kind of ref
The most interesting thing for me in the morning’s mailbox was the lack of comment on Michael ‘quickdraw’ Oliver’s decision to send off Dalot. You know when a player two-foots someone, and the general acceptance is that, yep, he’s ‘that kind of player’? Oliver is, simply, ‘that kind of ref’.
Was there consistency shown to how he handled Nunez in the first half? Nope. Was it necessary and proportional to the offence? Nope. Was it in line with general officiating this season? Nope. Does it mean that the big man gets some headlines? Oh hello.
Imagine what Klopp or Arteta would be saying right now. ETH has lots to learn, but using the British media should be up there on his to-do list.
Ryan, Bermuda
…It was interesting to hear ex-referee Dermot Gallagher on “Ref Watch” dissecting the Dalot double yellow card and sending off.
“It is a United throw when you look at it again but when I first saw it I wasn’t convinced.
You can’t act like Dalot did. It doesn’t look good and isn’t a good image to be portraying around the world.
Whether you like it or not, that is the remit referees have been given this season. That is why there is such a high number of yellow cards for this type of offence”.
Fair enough Dermot, can’t really complain. Presumably you think Nunez should have been sent off too then for a similar incident, and Salah should have been booked for waving an imaginary yellow card?
“It’s so so difficult because this is not an exact science. On the one hand, you say to me I don’t want two yellow cards for Dalot, but two minutes later you say you want a yellow for Salah and three for Nunez. I have nowhere to go. Whichever way I jump, you will say I’m wrong”.
No, if you tell us they should all be yellow cards or none should be then we would be on the same page Dermot.
“In the current climate the referee has no choice. I get that United fans will call for Nunez to be sent off but the referee didn’t choose to do it.”
So there you have it. Referees have their remit to follow this season and they simply have no choice, unless of course they choose not to follow it.
I’m sure I’m not the only one bored senseless of talking about referee decisions and VAR, but if they’re going to keep being incompetent, inconsistent, selective, ambiguous, mostly unaccountable or just goddamn wrong then they have to expect criticism. No, it’s not an exact science but it’s not a bloody free-for-all either.
That’s not the first time Oliver has screwed us over this season and won’t be the last. Funnily enough I thought he had a good game up to that point and absolutely did not think Nunez should have walked, because he had already been booked for the incident and Oliver used his common sense. People will accept what they perceive to be decisions going against them if there is at least consistency. If they can’t make consistent decisions then bring in referees who can.
Garey Vance, MUFC
Where’s your famous atmosphere?
I’ve seen a few comments from various types where the low key atmosphere at Anfield on Sunday was put down to an expectation that it was only a matter of when, not if Liverpool would score, and how it would be a goalfest thereafter.
My own thoughts on this differ slightly. While I wanted and was hoping for another United pasting, my expectation was far from such and was expecting this to be one of those cagey 0-0, maybe Evans popping up last minute to win it for United. When it became clear that Liverpool weren’t on song and were desperate for that first goal, it felt like everyone was a bit nervous. “What if United fecking score. Of course they’re going to score. And it’s gonna be Evans from their only corner” (a la Ferdinand in 2006). Thankfully they never won that corner.
They did an interview with KJT before the match and her words and expressions seemed to sum it up perfectly. And it just permeated throughout the crowd really early on that “it’s gonna be one of *those* matches”.
Only thing more disappointing than the match is that I’ve even bothered to write this email after such a boring and pointless match.
Rob, Worthing.
Tears for Toffees
but what a performance by Everton. Confidence is contagious and you can see it all over the pitch. It wasn’t like Burnley rolled over on us. The first 10 minutes were pretty much all Burnley with Everton perfecting their “let the other team have the ball” approach.
Special praise for two of our “back five” in Godley & Crème as they hadn’t played in ages.
A performance so wonderful it made me want to Cry.
TX Bill (Can we keep this going? City & Spurs up next) EFC
City’s family problems
I’ve just realised that Man City might not make the champions league next year.
I’m not talking about failing to finish 4th or 5th – that’s not going to happen. But with Girona currently performing miracles in la liga… 2nd or 3rd might not be enough.
I saw lots of articles about how INEOS’ investment in utd might scupper the red devil’s hopes of qualifying if Nice finish better than them. Uefa’s rules on multiple ownership forbid two teams with the same owners from competing in the same competition.
And Girona are owned by the city group. In fact, if Girona did the unthinkable and actually won la liga, city might even be banned if they win the premiership (depending on how the England/Spain country coefficients shake out).
Quite a lot of unlikely things need to happen obviously but it’d be quite funny and I’m surprised I’ve not seen the possibility being talked about yet.
If only someone, anyone, had ever said something about multiple-ownership and sporting integrity and the cost to the fans etc…. oh wait.
G, Swansea
Arsenal at their best
At the start of the weekend….how many will Citeh put past Palace and how will Liverpool slaughter sorry ManYoo by? Will Arsenal stumble against their bogey team?
Arsenal have not played wonderfully this season but we took bogey club Brighton to the cleaners. Yeah, we could have scored more. The only team who has deserved anything out of us this season has been Newcastle and even that has been a 0:0 draw.
Arsenal top of the table, Ødegaard back to his best, Rice brilliant and Harvetz proving everybody wrong. Raya doesn’t have to because he very rarely had a save to make!
I’ve had a few run in’s with Geordies after Arteta’s wailing…no different then other managers.
We’re on track with no oil money. Come on Newcastle play non Stoke football! I used to like you lot!
Chris, Croydon
Steady’s showboating
Unbelievable written rainbow flick from your very own Matt Stead this week:
“Not since Harry Kane tried to tell Daniel Levy he was in control of his own future over a round of golf with Gary Neville, has the overlap been quite so awkwardly deployed.”
You win the internet today 👏👏👏
JH
Local v international
As an international fan who has spent a fair amount of time on Merseyside (30+ trips at this point), I wanted to comment on the point Dan made about rivalries and how they resonate with local fans vs. international fans.
I completely agree that intra-city rivalries like the Merseyside Derby are felt very differently by local fans compared to international fans. We didn’t grow up surrounded by fans who support the other side, the city we live in doesn’t buzz with a certain energy on the days leading up to the derby, etc.
I would respectfully disagree with the premise that inter-city rivalries like Liverpool/ManUtd are felt particularly differently by local fans as a result of things like “The Manchester Shipping Canals”. I’m sure that was a big part of how people felt in decades past, but surely no longer. Clear evidence of this: where is the ferocity in the relationship between Everton and Manchester United, or Everton and Manchester City? Where was the animosity between LFC and MCFC prior to competing for the same trophies over the last few years?
When you spend time on Merseyside, if there is any palpable political/societal animosity to note, it is towards “The South”/London, rather than towards Manchester. The inter-city rivalries and animosity still exist, but really do not seem to be on the top of anyone’s mind. I would imagine that one would have the same impression if speaking to the residents of Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle, etc. This does not/has not spilled over into any particular football rivalry, probably because there is no FC Westminster, even if Chelsea is just a couple miles down the road.
So anyway, being an international fan can explain why Chris from Canada doesn’t “hate” Everton, but doesn’t really explain the lack of “hatred” for ManUtd (he’s probably just a level-headed guy who doesn’t enjoy the rivalry side of sports).
Oliver Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland
…As a foreign fan I read Dan’s email relating to the meaning of the rivalry between teams being different for local fans with interest, and I agree fully with him. There is no way to determine which type of fan is better, and supporting a club can go much deeper than where you were born.
I began supporting Arsenal when I was around 11 years old. I had watched football regularly at that time thanks to my dad and uncle, and 2 things stood out to me. Firstly, was the number of black players that were playing for Arsenal at the time. I could not remember seeing a team with as many black players and as I am from South Africa, that resonated with me for some reason. The other thing that stood out to me was the quality of the players, particularly Vieria, Bergkamp and King Henry.
I was hooked from then on and have been a Gooner ever since. Whilst this does not mean that I am any more/less/better/worse of a fan than someone from North London, it does mean that our perception of rivalries are different.
I grew up with the majority of my family and friends being either Manchester United or Liverpool supporters, and naturally paid more attention to these rivalries over the traditional North London rivalries. Whilst I would consider Man U to be the biggest rivalry (Even with all the drama at OT), I can easily understand why a supporter from North London would consider Spurs as the biggest. I mean, I have since learned about the history between Arsenal and Spurs and the reasons for the rivalry, and as much as I dislike spurs, a win over them is way less satisfying to me than seeing my brother’s face when we beat United by a late goal!
That being said, and as nice as they are, these differences mean nothing at the end of the day. The one thing all fans have in common is a love for their club and the drive to be the best it can possibly be. In that, all supporters are part of the same family despite our differences, which is a beautiful thing.
I am interested to see how other fans, from other areas feel. Why they support the club they do and who they consider their biggest rivals. I am sure that we’ll get some interesting responses here and hopefully more unique perspectives.
Pherain, ACF, Johannesburg
Winning at indoor cricket, winning at life
I was out of range for the entirety of Manchester City v Crystal Palace watching my son play – and upset the odds to win – an indoor cricket season. As the old saying goes, when you’re winning at indoor cricket, you’re winning at life.
*Much like the Liverpool game last week, very little was expected of the game against Manchester City in terms of the result, the focus would be on the performance. Before the game it was noted that Crystal Palace have a reasonable record against City, but it’s also fair to say that Pep Guardiola is the sort of obsessive who would want to do something about that statistic.
*Roy Hodgson’s selection policy is getting to the stage of being to take the few senior players he has available and finding a way to line them up without it becoming a formation so ridiculous even Garth Crooks would think twice about it. Hodgson switched to a 5-4-1 and brought in Jairo Riedewald, who has started games against Manchester City previously and been a notable presence in defensive midfield, but hasn’t persuaded his manager to start him more regularly. Joel Ward started at centre-back with Nathaniel Clyne at right-back. Jean-Philippe Mateta started in place of Odsonne Edouard, who was injured against Liverpool, while Jordan Ayew (suspension) and Will Hughes were also missing after last week’s game. In better news, Dean Henderson was fit to start in the absence of Sam Johnstone.
Incidentally, there was some suggestion that Hodgson’s methods have been a contributing factor to the number of injuries affecting the Palace squad. I personally don’t think there’s any single cause but the nature of some injuries (muscular, away from the play) and the timing of them (sometimes right after international breaks) is worrying. It’s more likely that the constant churn of football and changes for televised games means players are unable to get into a routine for recovery.
*The trouble with Hodgson’s teams using formations with lots of defenders is that he is ultra-defensive at the best of times, sometimes it feels like the best way to get a result against the top sides is to take the game to them, and if you go behind you don’t always have the setup to get back in to the game. Inevitably, with City dominating possession, they took the lead on 24 minutes when Phil Foden played in Jack “Jackie” Grealish.
*About ten minutes after the goal, Joel Ward went down injured, seemingly opening up a wormhole through which the game fell into another dimension, because Hodgson brought on a young player. David Ozoh, rather upsettingly, was born in 2005 and was the under-21s player of the season last year. He came on for his second senior appearance to play in midfield with Chris Richards moving back into the defence. For a player thrown in at the deep end, Ozoh was superb. Wearing #52 is certainly one in the eye for shirt number purists as well.
*Palace’s sole meaningful venture forward in the first half ended in a potentially controversial moment. Mateta was poleaxed by Ederson outside the area. The goalkeeper was reckless but made shin on shin contact in a genuine (if rubbish) attempt to win the ball. There were also two covering defenders, so a yellow card was the correct decision.
*City doubled their lead on 54 minutes when Rico Lewis proved too much for the Eagles defence and prodded home. Then, they sort of stopped. Instead of really pressing home their advantage, they had three attempts on goal in the next 20 minutes. On 74 minutes a long pass forward saw Jeffrey Schlupp burst beyond a sleeping City defence and hold off Ruben Dias to square the ball to Mateta, who outmuscled Nathan Ake to prod the ball home.
Ake is clearly a very good player, but much like John Stones and various Arsenal defenders at the tail end of Arsene Wenger’s era, he looks like you can get at him sometimes. Sometimes defenders in teams that like to dominate possession don’t cope with the physical battle of defending in the same way that a comparable defender at a lower-status club does. For the goal, he was a distant second best against a strong forward.
*The parallel universe theory raised its head again a few minutes later when Hodgson inexplicably turned to young players: Riedewald and Schlupp were replaced by Naouirou Ahamada and Matheus Franca.
*For someone who didn’t have a lot of service for most of the game, Mateta applied himself superbly, and was hugely instrumental in his side winning a late penalty. He won the ball from Bernardo Silva on the touchline and played a through ball to Ozoh, whose attempt to dribble between Kyle Walker and Rodri was ended by a sandwiching that was itself a borderline penalty. Following up, Mateta poked the ball past Foden whose attempt to kick the ball found only Palace striker for a clearer penalty. City defenders appeared to be upset about the way Mateta had won the ball from Bernardo Silva, but it was simply a mismatch of strength. Michael Olise, the coolest person in the stadium, held his nerve to convert the penalty and rescue an unlikely point for his side.
*There is not a media conspiracy against Crystal Palace, of that I am certain. I want to believe there isn’t a media conspiracy in favour of the biggest clubs. What doesn’t help is when the Match of the Day commentator calls the penalty incident as a matter of fact definite foul by Mateta and then shock that the referee has actually awarded a penalty. Some might suggest they were surprised the referee had gone off script with such a decision even though it was absolutely correct and, had it not been awarded on the field, would certainly have been awarded by VAR.
Even worse came after the match. The post-match interview was dominated by the penalty incident, even though Guardiola said he thought it was a correct decision. The interviewer then continued to try to provoke a comment about a foul not given in the build-up, and to his credit Guardiola continually refused to be drawn in. If a football manager is seething after a match and publicly criticises the officials, that’s bad enough, but when a manager is fine and the media representatives keep goading them into saying something about the referee, making controversy out of nothing, that’s worse. You get how that’s worse, right?
*“The G is for the gnarled face of someone who’s on 90 grand a week and reckons he should have had a throw-in”. Well done to Michael Oliver for showing two yellow cards to Diogo Dalot for continued dissent. By doing that it sends a clear message to players that being cautioned should be the end of their dissent, not an invitation to get their money’s worth by getting in as much complaining as possible. Ultimately, it was a throw-in with 30 seconds left, so Manchester United could set themselves up to defend it, and they’d spent the majority of the match actually defending quite well.
*I’ve seen Sean Longstaff’s dad deliver hip checks with the force Raul Jimenez put into his effort, but for anyone wondering, the severity of the impact plus the fact he left his feet prior to an impact solely with the head would result in a match penalty: the offender ejected from the game and likely to face a multi-game suspension, and the opposition given a five minute powerplay (as opposed to two minutes for a minor penalty that ends early if a goal is scored).
Ed Quoththeraven
