The Mailbox defends Liverpool fans over Premier League restart

Date published: Wednesday 20th May 2020 2:40

Liverpool Anfield

If you have anything to add on any subject, you know what to do: Mail theeditor@football365.com

 

Restarting the league
I know Thayden loves nothing more than a controversial opinion that gets dozens of people writing in, but his assertion that Liverpool fans don’t care about people dying if the game restarts is a bit much even for him.

I certainly don’t agree with Neil’s email which does read like the parodic version of the entitled Liverpool fan. However for Thayden to use this to paint a broad brush of Liverpool fans and for him to completely ignore all the thoughtful discussion about the league restart in the mailbox and elsewhere is quite disappointing. I admit that even though I am a Liverpool fan, I am torn on this issue. There have been great arguments on the side of the league restarting (under the right conditions) and there have been great arguments about postponing it indefinitely or cancelling it. There have been so many interesting discussions about this, but Thayden has decided to ignore all that and go for one of the few emails that aren’t representative of either side of the discussion and that’s every bit as provocative as his own email. I’m sure it felt good though.

Also just an FYI- the idea that it’s only Liverpool fans who want the league to resume isn’t in line with reality. But that would be a bit inconvenient for Thayden’s rant.
Turiyo Damascene, Kigali

 

Hi Mailbox,

I woke up this sunny morning to find that, according to thayden, I am part of a “rancid fanbase” akin to “selfish, ignorant, happy to sh*t on anyone who gets in their way” Tories.

There may be other mails in response to this, but thayden, please don’t tar every Liverpool fan with the same brush. I get that one mailbox contributor riled you, but did we all?

Some of us were appalled by the support for Suarez’s actions.Some of us don’t want football to resume this year for the obvious safety reasons. Some of us have brains in our heads. Some of us can even take an unbiased perspective on our club and on rival clubs.

You mention “what an awful, awful world we live in”, but does your vitriolic and generalising criticism of an entire fanbase really help make that world better?

Perspective is something we all need at the moment.

Let’s all stay calm.
A, Dublin

 

First off, Thayden needs to take a very long walk off an extremely short pier and take his vile hatred of all things Liverpool to the bottom of the ocean where it belongs.  No right minded football fan, Liverpool or otherwise, is suggesting that 22 super-fit blokes kick a pigs bladder around whilst people die in the stands from a disease that has caused a lot of suffering all around the world.  Thayden can just f**k right off, I could not belive the hate-filled vitriol of his mail.  Man Utd fan per chance?

We all need to gain a little bit of perspective.  This virus isnt going away any time soon and, depending on your source of information, could be around forever a la the flu.  There may never be a vaccine for it, or they could find one next week.  We just don’t know.  The problem is that people seem to be at either end of the stick.  It’s either:
a) no football, sport or any social gathering of any kind until the risk of death is completely eliminated, or
b) bring everything back right now to save the economy/our mental health.

The solution, as it often is, lies in the middle.  We need sport back, we need shops and businesses open and we need schools open.  If we don’t start on the road to economic recovery soon, we could see a recession the likes of which havent been seen since the 1930’s.  People carrying around wheelbarrows full of cash just to buy a loaf of bread.  At the same time, if we reopen everything too soon, there will be a second wave of corona victims and cause even more problems than what we face now.

The government is doing the best it can to balance both ends of the stick, and it wouldnt have been any different if it had been Labour in charge, or the Lib Dems or even the Monster Raving Looney party.  There is no magic solution, no wand that can be waved to make everything the way it was.  People blaming this on the Tories are just showing their ignorance.

Project Restart isnt about restarting football tomorrow.  It’s about bringing it back when, and IF, it is safe enough to do so.  If you say that football can’t be resumed until there is zero risk of death, then no football will ever be played again.  How many people have died at a football game in the 150 years or so it’s been a professional game that had no relation to corona virus? More than zero I bet.  No sports will ever be played again.  No shops will ever open again.  As a teenager, I worked with a guy at McDonalds who died at work after a 1-in-a-million accident.  There goes fast food and restaurants.

This isnt about who is right and who is wrong.  It isnt about apportioning blame.  It’s not the Tories’ fault.  It’s not Boris’ fault.  It’s not Lex Luthor’s fault.  It’s certainly not Liverpool fans’ fault.  So all of you out there gripping your end of the stick tight, wake the f**k up and meet in the f**king middle.  People will die no matter what we do, its about minimising (not eliminating) the risk as much as possible and start this country on the road to recovery as safely as we can.  Or there wont be a f**king country left.

Open your minds people and do what you can to stay safe.  Except for you Thayden.  You can do one you vile little troll.
Clive LFC

 

Wow thayden…that’s a weird email to send in. It’s so laced with rage and passion that you seem to have stopped thinking clearly as your wrote it.

Now admittedly, I haven’t been reading the mailbox a great deal recently but whenever I’ve tuned in there looks like a balance of views split between:

Void the season
End it on points per game
Start up again if/when it’s safe to do so

For the most part, the views split based on tribal loyalty when it comes to fans which is fine. I wrote a mail a few weeks back saying I’d like the season to restart as long as it was safe to do so and as long as it didn’t affect the NHS’s ability to test or cost the public any money. I still stand by my view but also have a lot of respect for Troy Deeney if he wishes to opt out of playing; from what I read yesterday his son has a breathing issue so that is where Troy’s concern comes in. Nobody is obliged to risk their lives for the sake of entertainment or a game but I think to suggest that thousands more will die because football returns behind closed doors is a bit facetious at best or entirely ignorant of who is actually at risk from COVID-19. I do accept that footballers have families and those people may be in the at risk groups but, as Troy Deeney has already done, maybe it’s up to footballers to speak out if they live with an at risk individual and have concerns? I would imagine the vast majority of footballers have followed social distancing rules and so their mothers/fathers/grandparents should not be at risk because they go back to work. My entire family (parents, 2 sisters and 1 brother in law) all work in the NHS and we have kept socially distant so we aren’t asking more of footballers than average people.

It feels as though you’ve either taken the opinion of some small group of insanes and painted that over an entire group of fans (you compare LFC fans to the Tory party….might wanna look in the mirror on that one mate) or invented this opinion to fit your own opinion.

I’m not reinventing the wheel when I say this – there are idiots amongst every fan base. It’s why a very small section of LFC fans say Munich chants and why I see references to 39 dead or 96 not being enough whenever I venture too deep into the internet. Idiots seem especially mobilised when they get to hide behind the keyboard and enjoy the internet’s gift/curse of anonymity. I mentioned Troy Deeney earlier but you can be sure that if he doesn’t play and Watford get relegated then he will probably be moving to another PL club at which point the idiocy amongst Watford’s fan base will be mobilised.

Maybe you just wanted to take a cheap shot at a fanbase you dislike – that’s fine but I think your email seems to have actually lost track of why and how this tragedy has hit the UK as badly as it has. Maybe you should use your energy to find out what’s gone wrong and turn your ire towards those that are responsible for the 30,000 dead so far. Maybe when you discover why they’ve made all the choices that they’ve made you’ll realise why they’re comfortable climbing over 30,000 dead bodies to get where they’re going. And incidentally if you think those Tories are in bed with anyone from the North you should have a look at the funding changes they’ve announced for local authorities in the North.
Minty, LFC

 

Well, what a thoroughly unpleasant specimen thayden is.

Such heartfelt concern for the thousands of people who will die because of Covid 19 and who is responsible for this? Why, Liverpool supporters that’s who. How did he reach that conclusion? He read a letter on a football website and started frothing at the mouth.

Is it just Liverpool FC and their supporters who want to re-start the season? No of course not, but don’t let that get in the way thayden’s vile rant. He thinks Liverpool supporters are “selfish” and “ignorant”. Well thayden you have essentially blamed the deaths of “50,000” on Liverpool supporters and labelled them all racists to boot. That revolting letter is one of the most ignorant pieces of crap I’ve read on this website. Well done thayden. Well done.
Dave H. Toxteth

 

Hi Thayden

Few points:

Bit harsh to label all Liverpool fans the same.

Disgusting to say Liverpool fans like funerals

It’s just an inbox. So relax- grab perspective.

Liverpool fans do want to win the title, not at anything though and certainly not more deaths.

Football should be about supporting different views, none of us are the same, if deeney doesn’t want to play I understand that and have no concern.
Ade ( please just relax and stop trying to be abusive to each other ) we all love football

 

Love me some well articulated rage. I also love me some pissy indignation so thayden’s mail and the comment section from this morning’s mailbox were a double delight. The lads in the comments probably should have scanned the rest of the mailbox before clutching their handbags though. They would have seen a Liverpool fan argue that sending athletes back to work for our entertainment during a global pandemic is ok because ‘it hasn’t caused THAT many deaths actually.’ I never thought I’d see someone try to rationalise mass human death in a football magazine but I’m not surprised given we live in an age of sociopaths and paranoid man-children running everything.

I miss the shit out of the game. Saturdays are practically meaningless without fantasy football points or football bets to check up on. What am I supposed to spend Saturday afternoons doing without it? Going outside? Talking to people? Self reflecting and meditating on my past choices in order to be a better person and improve the lives of those close to me? Pfffffft. None of that fits in very well with my dedication to living the life of a degenerate.

My dad is 68 though. He’s in fantastic form for a man of his age but he’s had asthma and blood pressure issues in the past. I’ve not seen him in 2 months even though he lives 10 minutes from me. I work from home and have only left the house for the shops but I’m still terrified I might kill my da. I can only imagine how I’d feel about it if I had to work outside my home and come into proximity with scores of other people every day. Fuck football. It really, really, really doesn’t matter.

I don’t mind Liverpool fans calling for the football to come back, but please, stop pretending you’re concerned about the integrity of the league or whatever. Just be honest. You want your team to win the league. That’s it. You don’t work for the FIFA or the WHO. You do not know what you are talking about. “We were so close to winning it and we should either just be awared it or the league should play out.” is fine. People might argue against that statement but at least you’re not demeaning the deaths of tens of thousands of people in your country with it.

I think the league should be abandoned personally. I wrote in before it was suspended to say Liverpool can’t be awarded it because 5 points from 8 games wasn’t too far fetched a situation given their form and fixtures. If Project Restart goes ahead, it’ll effectively be a different league; a new competition. We have transfer windows and rules about players being cup-tied to keep integrity of competition and that’s why the I think the restart shouldn’t happen.

But if it does happen, I won’t be raging over Liverpool getting closer to United’s 20. I’ll be raging over the culture of neoliberalism trying to force people to risk their families health so rich cunts can get richer and selfish, bitter wankers sitting on their sofas stop throwing tantrums about it.

Football doesn’t matter.
Eamonn, Dublin

 

Thayden, you seem to have missed one pretty vital point in your passionate assault on Liverpool fans. It makes no difference to us whether the season is stopped or whether it carries on. Liverpool will be champions. UEFA have categorically said that seasons cannot be voided. League 2 has already been settled by points per game. Play on, don’t play on, it doesn’t matter. Liverpool will be champions.

Where is your fury at Bournemouth or Aston Villa fans? Do you honestly not think they want the season to carry on? I’ve not heard a Villa fan saying he’s happy to stop and use PPG. I want the season to be played, but not because I’m a Liverpool fan. As I said, it wouldn’t bother me at all if we won the title on PPG. We were the best team. It was unarguable that we would have won anyway. It would not be tainted. But I still think football should be played.

It was quite fitting that your rant coincided with my mail pointing out the actual dangers involved, because it was completely hysterical. To say that Liverpool fans would climb over 50,000 is a disgusting, vile thing to say, and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. It was also it total denial of facts and reality.

The lockdown is easing. Schools are going back. Shops are reopening. In Italy and Spain, a few weeks ahead of us and just about as badly hit, cafes and bars are reopening. Are the cafe and bar owners climbing over dead bodies to get their business up and running? Are those essential services?

Footballers will test positive. Of course they will. As will shop workers, hairdressers, beauticians, waiters and any other profession you care to mention. The key thing is testing. It will be far safer for footballers, tested daily, to return to playing that it is for the rest of the population to pop out to the shops, without those crucial tests. If they do test positive, they will be isolated, track and trace will be used and they will stop the infection spreading. Keep shielding vulnerable people and allow those who are at almost no risk at all to go back to work. If doctors say Troy Deeney shouldn’t play then fine, he shouldn’t. But the same rules should apply to footballers as someone who works in any of the other non-essential services that are going to go back to work.

At what point, according to you, is it safe? When we have eradicated Covid 19? When we have a vaccine? Because we could be waiting years. Should footballers live inside for that period? What exactly should happen? Do you think that somehow, if we void this season and start the new one in September that it will magically be safe? Is Covid killed by the season ending?

Thayden, start living in the real world. Look at the facts, look at the science, then realise that your slander of Liverpool fans is noting short of shameful.
Mike, LFC, London

 

thayden.  Where to start?  There’s SO much I could pull apart from your borderline psychotic and disingenuous diatribe but I’ll settle for this.  If the season is curtailed Liverpool will be deservedly awarded the title (a title that pundits, opposing teams and fans stated had been won in January) based on precedents all over Europe (e.g. France, Belgium, Scotland) so anyone calling for the resumption of the league is not doing so in the interests of being awarded the trophy.  That’s’ happening whatever happens so on that basis alone your email is unadulterated bullsh*t.

Life needs to start to go back to a semblance of normality because the alternative is to continue in lockdown for a further 18 months or more before a vaccine is found, tested and mass produced.  That means going back to work in as safe an environment as possible to minimise the risk of transmission.  Football will be one of the safest work places around with a huge amount of protocols in place to ensure safety as well as testing of all participants twice a week.  Testing which has already identified 6 virus carriers who may not otherwise have known they were and could have spread the virus further, maybe to vulnerable relatives, but will now self-isolate.

Oh and by the way, did you hear that the Burnley squad took part in an internal survey and voted unanimously that they wanted to continue the season?  Google it and you’ll see that it wasn’t reported by most of the media yet Troy Deeney is back page news.  It couldn’t be that the media have a vested interest in pushing a negative agenda to ferment talking points being vociferously discussed online leading to clicks, shares, tweets and more clicks now could it?
James Outram, Wirral

 

Going out at the top
It’s tricky, isn’t it? Keeping up standards. Longevity is hard.  Sure, you might be The Fall constantly renewing, refreshing keeping up and keeping relevant. You could also find yourself on an 80’s reunion tour, playing the same three hits you had over and over again in increasingly ill-fitting costumes to ever dwindling numbers of people.

The same is true of football managers.  You could be Sir Alex Furguson – adapting, changing, evolving and going out at the top.  Or you could be Jose Mourinho. Once great. Once untouchable. But now? The same stuff, the same negativity, the same toxic criticisms. The effectiveness wears off. People loose interest. Another Jose rant.  So what? And eventually playing those same few hits over and over doesn’t get you very far.  Sad to see, but seemingly unavoidable for some people.

Anyway.  Nice to see thayden back in the mailbox this morning.
Jeremy (aware in this tortured and weak analogy, that I’m Pardew at best) Aves

 

Man Utd’s academy is underrated…
Balham Gooner, you seem to be arguing a point I don’t remember making.

I never mentioned the rules/money Chelsea have with regards to them having a good system, I just said that they had an excellent system.

Yes, obviously the money helps, it’d be surprising if it didn’t. You look at the money poured in by City in recent years and players they’re starting to produce (probably ahead of teams like Chelsea/United). Doesn’t take away from my point that Chelsea have an excellent system in place that is producing plenty of quality England youngsters that are requiring loan moves to allow them to progress (ie too good for u18/u23 football).

Also, I have never criticised the United academy. I think it is one of those academies that is often underrated – people think academies need to churn out top 5 PL players. I disagree, players like Evans, Drinkwater (Leicester version), Keane, McNeil and even Lingard are signs of a quality academy system as they produce PL capable players.

Yes, Chelsea have benefitted from timing and money to be a Tier 1 academy, but it took me 30 seconds to check that there are 23 other Tier 1 academies and Chelsea would comfortably be towards the top of those with regards to the types of players it is currently producing (Derby a tier 1 academy, ranked 43rd in academy productivity) which suggests, as I originally stated, that they have a great system in place relative to others.

Finally, you talk about Chelsea benefitting from being a finishing school, the majority of Chelsea academy players representing England at all levels have been with Chelsea from a stupidly young age rather than transferring from other “lower” academies at 16 or so – we’re actually seeing the opposite, Brewster, Panzo, Rice, Chalobah etc all moving away. For the record, I have a hard time calling a player who moves academies after 16 an academy graduate for the team they’ve moved to (ie Billy Gilmour, technically a Chelsea academy graduate but you’d argue Rangers had just as much involvement in developing the player he is), so would probably refer to them as an “academy player”

Anyway, glad to see you agreed with most of what I had to say otherwise, I certainly think limiting consectutive loan moves is a hugely important step.
Adam, Midlands

 

How to fix the silence…
With the Bundesliga back, it seems like the consensus on footy without crowds is that we still like it, just slightly (only slightly) less than we used to.

So how do we fix the dreaded silences and echoing stadia?

Back in the days before we collectively turned into a combination of Boo Radley and Howard Hughes, I had the pleasure of watching a live match soundtracked by a live orchestra that was meant to respond to events on the pitch.

The venue was some underground theatre bar in London and the match was Germany vs Turkey in Euro 2008.

Predictably, it didn’t go well. The match was scuppered by an electrical storm affecting coverage (annoying because it was a cracker), which was probably some sort of divine punishment for me such attending such a pretentious event, not least on a first date. The band played on, but the ship was already deep underwater.

So, with the jury out on orchestral soundtracking, here’s my alternative to silent echoing stadiums for when the PL returns…

Let the home manager DJ.

Just think of the noise. Klopp could unleash an hour and a half of the sort of ear-splitting rock that the CIA used to flush out Manuel Noriega. Steve Bruce would surely unleash a full 90 of Oasis (or whatever he thinks the yute are listening to), mostly consisting of Be Here Now outtakes with tactical instructions bellowed out like dedications from a wedding DJ. Sean Dyche would astonish all with a playlist of Gabba to keep his players on their toes. The more embattled managers would try to steady the ship by pandering to the players, which would probably mean watching a cowed David Moyes grimacing through a full game worth of Drake and J Hus.

Jose would obviously weave some sort of post-hypnotic mind control into his playlist to guard against attacking football combined added to some mighty ‘brown note’ frequencies targeted at opposition players.

Events on the pitch would also have their own music. The theme from Mortal Kombat could accompany a face-off between managers or players, the Countdown clock would end each half with Gary Neville’s famous ‘scoregasm’ piped in in stereo to serenade any goal.

Sounds too much like an Ice Hockey match? Well when you’re longing for the melodic sounds of the Vuvuzela and the dreaded England band to bring back a bit of atmosphere, perhaps it’s time.
Quarantino Asprilla, Chairman of the Bored, ITFC

PS: Transfers should be allowed until the season ends, but only between players with rhyming names (Sterling for Erling etc)

 

 

Only return when it is safe…
Mike, LFC, London says that ‘Footballers can return to work safely, as long as we follow the precautions’ because the virus is not ‘dangerous to young people’ and if it was killing healthy young people, it would still be ‘killing at a lower rate than road accidents’.

This kind of argument annoys me for two reasons;

Firstly, that the 22 players on the field will be fine so football can continue. This is not the argument most people are dismissing about the restart. Most people consider all the other people that make up the the 22 players getting the the field and their supply chain. It is made up of 100’s of individuals, each with varying work and personal circumstances, who may or may not have the ability to isolate instead of working or stay away from families.

Secondly, and the main reason I wrote in, is the bullshit argument about the road accidents and how we’re not avoiding cars.

Mike says that 1 in 40,000 people die from road accidents, whilst 1 in 100,000 young people die from Covid-19. Whilst ignoring the comparing of all deaths on the road with those of a subset of Covid-19, this argument is selective and incorrect. 1 in 40,000 people die on the road, a year, meaning approx. 4.5 people a day.

Covid-19 kills 1 in 100,000 people under 40 in what, three, four months? That’s 5.5 people under 40 a day (only taking Feb through to May).
And that’s with taking never before seen control measures to mitigate.

Footballers can and might be able to go back to work like the rest of us. Or they may not. As with all things, when and if it is safe to do so should be the key factor.
But bullshit reasoning and strawman arguments and comparisons don’t advance the debate or offer any help to trying to figure it out.
Conor, London

 

P-team problems
I’ve been really enjoying the alphabet XIs, usually having a go from memory before going to the Wikipedia list and completely re-writing it.I’ve mostly agreed barring a few, probably biased, choices.  However I can’t agree with having Gerard Pique in the P team having only played a Donald Trump sized handful of Premier League games and only being in the side because of his success at Barcelona.

If you’re now saying that the over all calibre of the player is the deciding factor then surely you have to have Cristian Panucci in at right back.

There’s then arguments over Litmanen over Lacazette and Laudrup over Rob Lee, Fernando Hierro over Robert Huth, and I’m sure the list could go on.
I need clarity here folks!
Paul, The Wirral

 

Man Utd, Man Utd, Man Utd…
Sigh….. Another day, another article on which player from Tottenham Man United should sign. why is it, that the narrative of football is constantly through the lens of Man united?

I understand they’re wealthy and well supported but they’re also bang average! Easily as average as Tottenham. The narrative dedicated though, that every Tottenham player is dying to jump at the chance to play for Man United like it’s 2008 and Tottenham are Watford or Bournemouth, another team United can swat aside and “take” whatever player they want from them.

Can Son/Kane not imagine winning trophies at Spurs? they’ve played in a CL final (poorly) after all? they’ve been there or thereabouts at the top 2-3 of the PL  in the past years when United were dithering around 5th/6th. Why is it, that no matter how poor United are the narrative is “who do United buy to get them back to the top WHERE THEY BELONG!”

it’s seems like with Sky etc it as decided that United/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea are the “top teams” this was decided around 2000-2008 when these 4 teams where constantly top 4 and thus it should be forever seemingly.

it’s like there’s no room for anyone else at the top. I found it baffling that when Leicester won the league the talk was of players leaving – Vardy and Kante and Kante even did leave! it’s unfathomable that in any other sport  a player would rise to the top and then join a “lesser” (in terms of actual on the pitch football – Chelsea finished 10th!) team.

Even now, with Leicester surpassing United it’s as thought the narrative wont have it, it won’t let them in. the stories are still “Should United go and get Maddison/Ndidi/ChiIlwell” as if all these lads are dying to play for united cause they were good 8 years ago!

it’s sad to see that football won’t welcome a new story unless it’s an unreal amount of money involved (City/Newcastle) etc.

Anyway, Son is playing for a very good team, who’ve been there or there about and will build again. the idea that if Son’s dreaming of winning the PL/CL he’s thinking “I’d better join Man United cause one of their ex pros who get so much media time said narrative told me so” is laughable.

it’s not 2008 anymore.

*just finally, don’t take this mail as a “Spurs will roar back and conquer all in front of them” I doubt that, but IF Son/Kane are thinking of Leagues/CLs etc they’re thinking of City/Bayern/Juve /Real

I look forward to the next F365 article that starts “Who should Man U take from Tottenham”
Jeremy, disgruntled Spurs fan. Dublin. 

 

It’s interesting that F365 still live in 2007 where Spurs were seen as easy game for United.

Why would Son go to United?

1. United don’t have the cash to spend the amount it would cost to buy Son. Woodward has confirmed that

2. If Son were to leave, he could go to a far better team than United at the moment.

3. Son lives in London, United are in Manchester. Europa League in London > Europa League in Manchester

4. United’s manager is Ole Gunnar Solskajer

5. Why would Spurs sell to United?

I appreciate as long as ENIC own Spurs, we will always be victim to these type of articles due to our perceived lack of ambition even though we have the highest paid manager in the league and charge the highest season ticket prices.

It’s annoying but it won’t go away but seriously if you want to pick a better club than Spurs ( of which there will be if we continue to stand still) for Sonny please at least deal in realism.

I know the hordes of plastic United fans won’t like it but it simply makes no sense and I’m not really sure the point of the article rather than to exasperate Spurs fans even more and realise that until ENIC leave the club we will be subject to these type of articles
Raj THFC North London

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