F**k Zouma and West Ham… Moyes just made the matter worse

Editor F365
Kurt Zouma

David Moyes and West Ham could have done the right thing but they only made the Kurt Zouma issue worse by trying to have their cake and eat it.

Send your thoughts to theeditor@football365.com.

 

OK, Zouma
“West Ham United unreservedly condemns the actions of our player, Kurt Zouma, in the video that has circulated. We have spoken to Kurt and will be dealing with the matter internally, but we would like to make it clear that we in no way condone cruelty towards animals.”

Never have more hollow words been spoken. West Ham, absolutely do condone animal abuse, seen by a shown animal abuser in the starting line up. In the same way that Raith cannot claim to be against misogyny and rape, West Ham cannot claim to be against animal abuse. After Moyes’ comments on vaccination, they really are turning into an awful, vapid club. Anyone but West Ham.
KC (psychopathic trait, pathetic from the Met) 

 

Kurt Zouma started for us tonight? Your article on West Ham’s difficult position was spot on, an employee has done something terrible and West Ham have to find a way through the moral maze. But they’ve taken the wrong turning at the first opportunity.

It is obvious that Zouma will have to be suspended for a few games and I would expect some form of community service or charity work will also be required. Why not get ahead of the news and start that suspension now? And for Moyes to justify the selection by saying he’s one of our best players just makes the whole thing worse.
Andy the (disappointed) hammer

 

Tell you what, on both a professional and personal level, f**k Kurt Zouma.

If West Ham back him, then f**k them too.

You know, even more than usual.
Jon, Lincoln

 

I mentioned the Zouma incident to my better half this morning, and the view was clear: he should be banned, that abusing a living animal is abuse no matter what. It’s not woke, it’s not overreacting – abuse of animals is not ok, abuse of humans is not ok. Is that really so hard? Not saying a 10 match ban, but it’s as least as deserving of punishment as picking up 10 yellow cards, and brings the game into disrepute.

I’d suggest 5 game ban minimum for anything that brings the game into medium disrepute – random acts of violence, public drunkenness, caught with a prostitute or drugs, caught speeding at 20+ over speed limit… that kind of thing. Stuff that they shouldn’t be doing.

Interesting to read Seamus’s arguments as to why he shouldn’t, and they seem to be primarily because the FA and legal system are generally a bit sh*t. Sorry, that’s not a reason. One man getting away with murder doesn’t mean the next guy doesn’t get punished.

Personally, I’m hoping the RSPCA at least get involved and put some pressure. At worst case, let’s send in PETA; that’s far worse than a ban.
Badwolf

 

“I vas only doing my job” is not a good look, David.
Mat (Football needs a code of conduct because the clubs can’t be trusted)

 

Right to reply to reply
Hoping you’ll allow me to respond to some of the replies(reply to the responses?) regarding Zouma.

All good, particularly Alex who added a large dose of realism/cynicism, and very good ideas; I was expressing what I felt should happen, not what will.

I do think comparing the different behaviours/crimes of footballers(or anyone) is problematic, even when its the same crime, and I don’t see how it’s necessary.

I don’t think the bar for sackable offence in the premier League should start at rape, nor do I think they should only concentrate on that whilst lesser crimes can be dismissed until that is sorted. I do understand that some may disagree that what Zouma did warrants sacking, but certainly not because they should solely concentrate on those committing worse acts. If a footballer loses his job for sexual abuse, and another for cruelty to animals, it doesn’t mean they are both punished equally, there are plenty of other systems which will act upon them, and in different ways(except inexplicably Zouma will not be charged with anything).

There was an interesting point in the comments about hand-wringing when we are all (largely all) complicit in the intensive farming industry practices that allows abominable cruelty to countless animals. It’s a good point, but I think it is a separate conversation, the actions of individuals and those of a society or group within aren’t the same, however strongly linked they might be. Both need attention, and accountability must be sort but through different avenues and processes.

Mendy and Greenwood’s behaviour is also rooted in a society that objectifies women, and aggressively sexualises them, and we are all complicit in that, but no one would make the link between the two and suggest that we don’t judge them. I’m stretching here as it’s a lot more extreme, but it’s the same path I think.

To clarify, I’m neither vegan or vegetarian, I purchase and eat ethically sourced meat, a term which I’m sure has no truck with many, and it does weigh heavy. I still think I can judge Zouma, his actions are too far outside my accepted norms, and his actions are those of a sick mind.

It’s also an atrocious example for a high profile footballer to set. I absolutely see the absurdity in holding footballers up as role-models, but nevertheless they are seen this way.

Thanks
David

 

Meat-eater superiority
I was shocked watching the west ham game yesterday.

I noticed,  while tucking into my fav ‘ Buster Hot Dog’,  that ‘The Cat Kicker of London’ was allowed out on the pitch. In fact, I almost dropped my factory processed dead pig in amazement.

‘It’s disgraceful I said to the guy next to me. ‘I love animals ‘.

‘So do I’ he mumbled as he chewed through his £3 burger with extra bacon on top. ‘Lets boo him throughout the game’ he suggested

‘Great idea’ I said.

And we did and oh boy – did we feel superior for the whole match!

‘ Ah ! That’s will show people who let animals be hurt for their own gratification’ I proudly said to my friend as we left the stadium with big, smug smiles on our big, fat faces.
HypcocriteFan

 

So many January signings
Watching the Newcastle Everton game I feel like I’m watching two brand new teams.  Newcastle look great and are definitely benefitting from their new signings instantly.

Obviously Everton have a few new signings as well that haven’t had time to gel and you can argue teams still need to spend well to be successful. I didn’t give it much stock when the conversation first arose, but it really is going to be interesting how the FA’s decision to allow teams to postpone games due to “COVID” may be a huge sliding doors moment in certain relegation cases.
Pete, Cape Cod USA

 

Managing expectations
Roode, MUFC’s mail about elite managers
got me thinking. Trying to find an elite manager is not the solution to most clubs problem and certainly not for Man Utd.

While the evidence of titles and footballing superiority in a strong league does suggest Pep and Klopp are elite managers, you could argue for and against a whole host of managers from Conte / Tuchel / Poch / Jose and dozens of others. However, I don’t think Elite managers guarantee you anything on their own, allow me to explain…

Klopp is not successful at Liverpool because he is a footballing genius (although I’m not saying he isn’t one). He is successful because the club embarked on a long term project where they seem to have all been pulling in the same direction. Their transfer business has been successful over his tenure, not only in terms of their upgrades but also in the minimal nett spend outlay.

Similarly, Pep at City is not successful on his own. City have built structures and strategies into how they sign players, how they develop and who they target. No doubt Pep has a lot of say in this but you get the impression that even if Pep left one of the current arguable crop of “are-they-elite-managers?” would probably still keep the trophies coming in as they have a structure in place that will remain long after Pep.

If you look at Chelsea over the last 20 years. They’ve had so many managers, most of which are probably elite or close to and they keep winning titles and trophies. That shows they’re doing something right that is beyond what the manager brings to the table – the turmoil of replacing a manager every year or two is not damaging their status as a club that’s always in the mix.

And then you have the opposite at Man Utd. We’ve had LVG and Jose who if they’re not elite they are definitely the next level down. Why were utd so sh*t even with a top quality manager? Clearly it is because the project just wasn’t clearly defined and people are not all pulling in the same direction. Utd are prioritising instant success over a long term project and we can all see how that is working for them.

And to you City and pool fans that might think I’m belittling your managers achievements. I’m really not, they have both clearly worked wonders and raised the bar for the chasing pack. I just don’t think either could do it at utd as the problems are way more than just a managers position.

Utd need a transfer policy that suits their current status in the game. We are not title contenders or champions league contenders. Similarly, Newcastle are not challenging for either of those and hence even with new money they have to be more realistic with their transfer targets until they can attract the top talent with champions league football. Utd should forget about signing the top players and definitely not sign those past their peak as they’ve been wasting money on for years. All our money should be on players aged around 23 and younger who are still going to get better. Build a good youthful squad that can challenge for honours and only then find the star names that can take them from also rans to title winners. Currently these star names we’re buying are giving us mind boggling inconsistency, just about scraping the top 4 with no real hope or direction as to how to step up from there. Ronaldo may sell a lot of shirts but over the long run I’m sure trophies sell even more.

Until Utd realise they need a long term strategy not a lot is going to change. This season has been the worst and most painful as a fan since Fergie left IMO with the possible exception of the first one. There has been worse league positions than we’ll end up now but this is the biggest gap from what we might have expected at the start of the season to the reality we are in.

The only thing worse than the put downs from our rivals is the distinct lack of it at present as we’re not even worthy of being talked about.
Jon, Cape Town (can’t believe Utd are in 4th – shows how bad the rest are)

 

Maguire boy
How is Harry still the first choice England CB?

After another terrible performance from Harry Maguire this week in United colors. Why aren’t people asking more questions about if he should be one of the first on the team sheet for England. Certainly, his downright disappointing form of late has to give Gareth pause. Is it too crazy to suggest that Ben White is a better option? Who would have thought last year that Arsenal might have more on the plane to Qatar than United for England.
Victor Hamburger

 

Something positive
Sometimes it’s good to talk about, you know, the football. Occasionally, the circus that follows football is more noteworthy than the actual football, and I’m as guilty as anyone (actually, guiltier than most) for getting dragged down the myriad of rabbit holes that the game gives rise to, so I thought I’d talk about the actual sport for a change, now that the mid-season premiership break is over.

I know that we are still basically cave dwellers who got lucky, so it’s really easy to let tribalism cloud our thinking, but it’s all a bit ridiculous really. I am a Liverpool fan because I was a glory hunting seven year old without any undue parental pressure to support a team, and I watched Liverpool beat Borussia Mönchengladbach and it was just about the most enthralling thing I had ever seen. So I tied my colours to the mast there and then and I’m just about as likely to take one of my children to an orphanage and swap them for another as I am to start supporting a different football team.

So detached was I from Liverpool the city that I didn’t even realise that Liverpool and Manchester United fans have this seething rivalry until a drunk Manc tried to beat me up in a pub in Derby in the mid nineties because I cheered when Robbie Fowler scored. I have developed a reasonable healthy dislike of them ever since, and totally saw the chaotic post SAF era coming, made all the sweeter that the United fans were as arrogant as the Liverpool fans had been in the early nineties.

Anyway, I digress. The point I wanted to make is that I love Liverpool Football Club, even if I am a bit of a plastic. Even when we went through thirty years away from being champions of England, we had enough high points and drama to keep a Spurs fan happy for several millennia. And as for the Klopp era – what an absolute privilege it has been to vicariously share in these last few years. We have a club full of lovely fellas. Even Andy Robertson is the thinking man’s sh*thouse. There have been so many lovely little stories, so many nail-biting games, so many fantastic associations, so much to embrace and be proud of. As much as I want us to win a trophy (or four) this season, the ride is so much fun, so enthralling, that the destination doesn’t seem to matter that much.

Yes, this game is flawed, yes, those that run the game are soulless money men, yes, the excess of money has taken something away from the game that is difficult to define, but fuck me, the speed and skill on offer in the top division is truly breathtaking.

That’s all really. I just wanted to say something positive.
Mat (nothing to add for a change)