Mails: Forget the red card, Liverpool were shambolic

Date published: Sunday 10th September 2017 3:42

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I can’t remember when we last got battered like that
Holy Moly I can’t remember the last time we got battered like that. I want to say that we conceded five trying to fight our way back in but I think at 2-0 down everyone was just dreaming of going home.

Team selection seemed wrong from the outset; why pick Klavan over either Lovren or Gomez? But more importantly, Klopp should’ve looked at his own defence and known that Pep would start with two strikers. The perfect response would’ve been a 5-3-2 to shut down the space. A 5-3-2 could’ve then justified Moreno starting but with only 4 at the back surely the more defensive Robertson would’ve made sense. The attackers split us so wide open and more bodies would’ve made that harder to do.

On the Mane sending off; I would love to be able to look into the ref’s mind and see what he would’ve done if Mane had won the ball and then been clattered in the air by the keeper. If the ref would’ve sent the keeper off for a foul as the last man then I think fair enough on the red card. I can understand the red card but not sure it would’ve been one if Ederson hadn’t had to stoop his head to make contact, thus putting his face in line with Mane’s boot.

Little upside in dwelling over this result. For the first time in 3 years Klopp got it wrong in a big game. I doubt he’ll do so again.
Minty, LFC


In the 81st minute of watching one of the most shambolic team displays from my Liverpool I’ve seen in quite a while. Yes we are down to 10 men but that doesn’t mean you just stop trying. It was only 1-0 at the time but it’s like everyone took the sending off to give them excuse to have the rest if the day off. Absolutely shocking! I’ve already commented on the midfield 3 we have. Henderson is s***e. I don’t care what any English person wants to tell me but he’d never ever get a call up to any top national sides squad. Wijnaldum was back to his rubbish best and Çan thought he’d join those lumps with having a bad game.

Now on to the defence. What defence you might ask? Well the one masquerading as one at the Etihad. Matip and Moreno were really poor today. Probably Matip’s worst game in a Pool shirt. However, all my anger is aimed towards Trent Alexander and Klavan. Alexander started as he meant to go on. Nervous. But what really bugs me with this chap is his laid back approach. For the 4th he just stood there as the bell came down his side. There was another instance when he could have got to a stray City pass easily but decided to take his time and Mendy almost got it leaving Alexander to sprint and kick it out for a corner. He needs to be dropped and not get back in the team until he wakes the eff up! He seems to think that he’s started a few games that he’s so amazing. He doesn’t get criticised by people from Liverpool because he’s home grown and he’s young but that’s not an excuse. He was at fault for Hoffenheim scoring in Germany. If he was Moreno he’d be vilified. Just gone 5-0. Embarrassing.

Then to Klavan. I don’t care if he played instead of Lovren. As far as I’m concerned they are as bad as each other. But today Klavan just seemed to get worse and worse and worse. Just became complete ineptness in the end like a child trying to play football for the first time in his life. No words.

Not that thisvreally matters because we got embarrassingly thumped but why do linesmen think it’s okay to stop making calls when the game is over as a contest? Do they lose concentration? Sane was clearly off when he received the pass that led to the 4th. There was another pass that led to an Aguero chance that Mignolet saved on the line that was also off. Nobody seems to care cos it was already 3-0 but they still have a job to do. Probably thought ‘hey why should I do my job if this Liverpool pile of crap aren’t doing theirs ?’

And my last little bit. Henderson and Milner are the epitomy of England’s talentless midfield. There was one instance when Milner gave away a straightforward pass and I thought it was Henderson. They don’t look alike but all I can see is a pile of sh*te.
Alex J


What is Jordan Henderson?
I am not a fan of any team and I simply watch football in the hope of seeing a good game. As such, I hardly ever get angry watching football, but Jordan Henderson got me really peeved today.

How is he a staple of Liverpool’s midfield? Fine he works hard and probably has a tight off the ball game, which is appreciated by coach, but he is shambolic on the ball.

Surely a club aiming for the title can do better in center midfield than the second coming of Scott Parker?
Oliver D


Very true
Oh boy, Mendy is f*cking good. Those crosses…
Pakuru , MUFC ( Can’t actually believe I am enjoying a City game)


…A few points on the City Liverpool game
– First things first, it was a definite red card. I was absolutely shocked that neither Neville or Tyler agreed with the decision but sanity prevailed with Toure and Carragher. It wasn’t malicious but that’s not the point. It was reckless. I just hope Ederson is ok.

– Now onto the only real contentious decision of the match for me. In the build up to the first goal, there was a bouncing ball. I think Wijnaldum and Fernandino went for it but crucially Wijnaldum went for the ball where Fernandino simply nudged into the ball of Gini. Nothing dirty but a foul nonetheless. Fast forward 10 seconds and City are 1-0 up. If that’s called a foul then the rest of the game changes.

– Taking off Salah at half time was an interesting decision. He is a bit of a liability defensively but he was our only real threat. Firmino looked a bit off the pace which is understandable considering the travelling he has done recently.

– What club in the world sells their second best CB (Matip being the best) and doesn’t actually replace him? I know we were in for VVD but come on, were there no other CBs who actually were available? Or if there aren’t any then hold onto and actually play Sakho! Frustrating. Klavan does not inspire anyone with confidence bar perhaps our opponents attackers.

– De Bruyne is just a delight to watch. The weight of pass that he possesses is rivalled, in the premier league anyway, only by the little bald Stephen Ireland impersonator in the same team. Also I seem to remember him getting a few tackles in as well.

– Man city were ruthless. Their pace and passing are out of this world. I really hope that they win the league. They are such a joy to watch.

– Overall I’m not too disappointed. A right paddling at the hands of the best attacking team in the country after being reduced to 10 men is nothing to be ashamed of. Let’s just regroup and start the champions league off with a bang. I still think the season goals are to maintain top 4 and have a good champions league run.
Cian LFC


Write it off as a horrible day
Not the best of days. Not by a long shot. But a few points amongst the many you’ll receive.

Mane kicked the keeper in the head and he was legitimately injured. I don’t think there was any intention but it had to be a red surely? Argue whatever angle you like , but it was bloody dangerous.

We’ve defended worse than that. City just played really well. De Bruyne was fantastic and I don’t know on what planet you ever sell Aguero. This won’t be the only stuffing City deliver at home this season.

Sometimes a side goes down to 10 men and shuts up shop to be harder to beat. Fair to say we didn’t do that and that was the most disappointing aspect. We fell apart after the red and that makes you query how many leaders we have on the field. And not for the first time.

Wouldn’t have happened with Stevie G as skipper. But he’s gone, c’est la vie. Write it off, no knee jerk reaction – just a very bad day at the office.

You’ll get ( I’m assuming ) a boat load of correspondence saying the ref ruined the game. But if it had been the other way round we’d have been screaming for a red ourselves after that. He had to go. Let’s take it on the chin and crack on.
James, Liverpool ( we dealt out a mighty shellacking ourselves last time, that was quite a bit more fun. Go figure)


Liverpool were abject, even with ten
I was appalled with Klopp and his team today.

No doubt you’ll get a lot of other Liverpool fans writing to you trying to use the Mané sending off as an excuse for the hiding. Well they can make all of the excuses that they like, but one attacking player being sent off cannot EVER justify a team with title aspirations going on to concede a further 4 goals in 60 minutes.

Mané’s red card was the correct punishment for a reckless, dangerous challenge. Klopp can gesticulate all that he likes on the touchline but his decision making has been found seriously wanting so far this season.

Substituting Salah at half-time was tantamount to waving the white flag and inviting more City pressure. This was only compounded by the arrival of Milner and Solanke at the expense of our remaining attacking lights. When you’re 2-0 down but still have 45 minutes to play against top 4 rivals and choose to surrender, it is simply COWARDLY management. Title-winning teams should be instilled with a never say die attitude and a sense of (often false) injustice. Klopp simply left his players to take a hiding.

Moreover, are we really supposed to accept that Virgil Van Dijk was the only centre half in world football who could improve our centre half options of Matip – Lovren – Klavan? Another pathetic decision which will cost us points and possibly positions, as not reinforcing in January did last year. If it’s true that Klopp only wants to buy players who will definitely improve the first team then why did he buy a new left back, who put in a man of the match performance on his debut and was rewarded by being dropped from the team ever since?

I like Klopp and still hope he can take us forward but to say that some of his decision making this summer and this season have been kamikaze and he needs to sort his head out, quickly.


The red card
How is the Mane sending off even a debate? On first viewing it looked possibly harsh but replays have shown that the referee made an absolutely brilliant decision. And yet from what I have seen from social media and general reaction from pundits/ex players there seems to be a 50/50 split over the decision. I really cant understand this,if we break the decision down as any referee would into the criteria for a dismissal for dangerous play it seems pretty clear cut. The referee has to interpret serious foul play as challenging for a ball with excessive force or endangering the safety of the opponent. So lets apply that to the incident yesterday:

1. Mane is travelling at pretty close to his top speed and both feet are off the ground. As soon as he leaves the ground hes not in full control as he cant pull out of the challenge so he’s endangering the safety of Ederson. This alone doesnt make it a red card of course .Players leave the ground all the time when making tackles. But the type of tackle that he proceeds with means being out of control contributes to the red card. If Mane jumps into the tackle the same way but challenges with his head he probably doesn’t even get yellow.

2. His studs are showing.Again, clearly endangering his opponent

3. His foot is at head height. FIFA brought in the high foot foul to stop this exact type of foul occurring. This isn’t anything new, players know they cant have their feet at head height when another player is near them.By bringing his foot up to that height he is dangerously challenging for the ball as he has to know he is going to collide with Ederson.

4. The player he has collided with has won the ball,so its a late challenge. If he had won the ball then maybe there could be an argument for it to be a yellow, but even in that situation I would still argue it was a red.

5. Ederson has not challenged for the ball dangerously, balls at head height and he played it with his head. So although hes jumped into the tackle as recklessly as Mane he is not leading with an elbow or a foot, which would be deemed dangerous. And most importantly he won the ball.

6.The most damning of all…HE’S KICKED HIM IN THE FACE FOR GOD SAKE.

If after reading all those points your still not convinced, imagine the following scenario. Instead of a long ball hoofed up the pitch, imagine Mane is chasing a through ball along the ground. Both players race to get their first. Ederson gets to the ball first and kicks it into row Z. In his attempt to get the ball Mane has slid in with his studs up and catches Ederson forcefully on his standing leg. What colour would the card be? You better believe that would be a red card all day long. The only difference between this situation and what actually happened is the fact the ball was in the air and he connected with his head instead of his foot.

Also, anyone that says he has the right to challenge for the ball is talking shite. A player’s right to safety is more important than a player’s right to challenge for a ball. Using that excuse does not stop it being a red card.
Steve(As Fergie would say he could’ve killed the man!!)Ireland


Oh good, let’s have a go at referees again
So once again a potential game of the season is spoiled by a referee. I don’t want to comment too much on whether it was the correct decision or not – there have already been too many “experts” who have had their say. What I do want to comment on is the fact that their verdict seems to be split right down the middle with Neville, Collymore, Linekar etc. saying that it wasn’t a red while Carragher, Poll, David James etc. say it was.

Now I understand a referees job is difficult because it’s a split second decision. But it doesn’t have to be split-second. Jon Moss has assistant referees that he can consult with. He could have taken a few extra seconds to consult with them and then come up with a collaborative decision. Last year, a report conducted in conjunction with indicated that Jon Moss makes more premier league mistakes than any other in the top-flight, i.e. he is the worst referee in the top-flight.

Referees may be under pressure but it is nowhere near the pressure managers face. For Jon Moss to make such a huge controversial decision all by himself, refusing to consult with his assistants shows his character. To top it off with ignoring Klopp at the end of the game and snubbing his handshake shows an egotistical, classless man.
Rohit, Chicago


Thoughts on Leicester
Haven’t seen much on the site about the Adrien Silva situation. As it stands, he is a Leicester player but can’t even train because Leicester missed the transfer deadline by 14 seconds! Rules are rules I guess, but surely this is hurting the player through no fault of his own? I would hope common sense could’ve won the day here.

After starting off with 1 win and 3 losses, Leicester fans might be worrying. But they will be fine. Losing to Arsenal, Man United, and Chelsea in your first 4 games is not catastrophic for a team who would be happy mid table this year. Plus, Vardy is firing and Mahrez is back to assisting.

I predict they end up highest finishers outside the big 6 teams.

Some players just don’t fit with certain teams. Slimani seems like that at Leicester. He scores at a decent rate, but whenever he plays (cup games aside) Leicester do terribly. He creates a massive hole behind Vardy, because he lacks pace, lacks hustle, and is really quite poor at holding the ball up for someone his size. The whole balance of the team gets throw off.
Nathan (Newark)


Thoughts on Southampton
To date, Saints have managed to avoid winners and losers in totality. With 5 points from the first 3 games this lack of attention was merited. For anyone with the dubious pleasure of watching us, this lack of attention is even more understandable as you’d have been asleep.

Having struggled through 4 games now, unfortunately last season’s trends have continued and we deserve to be top of the losers this week.

Predictable, slow and devoid of ideas. We just don’t look like scoring. I don’t think we’re quite relegation candidates but it’s easy to see how the next few months could play out with low scoring games and increasing pressure on a new manager as bad performances was the main rod used for Puel’s back. I’m hoping it’s just down to a new manager settling in and happy to be patient, but worrying times.

The contrast to Watford couldn’t have been greater and they look a really solid team who will cause a few upsets to the ‘big boys’ and could challenge Everton for the best of the rest.
Tom Saints (weird day of results all around)


Thoughts on Brighton
Brighton scored a goal. And then another two. Great result and one that will give confidence and belief to the manager and the squad. There were suggestions that Davy Propper should be pushed further forward after his exploits for the Dutch national team. Pascal Gross has ended that discussion for the time being. The timing of his two goals were almost perfect coming so close to either side of the break. Happy that a new signing has been man of the match after Houghton’s transfer business was questioned. Still, Paul Merson didn’t know who Gross was when he signed so I still expect him to be rubbish.

The old guard stepped up too. Solly March looks like he played Premier League football for years and is keeping our record signing Izquierdo on the bench. Some of Bruno’s touches were top quality ‘Arry and Knockaert was show boating. All things the Albion fans love to see. The Amex was jumping and Hemed’s goal celebration after coming so close to leaving last week was the high point for me. And what odds of Lewis Dunk gatecrashing the World Cup Ladder at some point this season?

Four points in the pot so far. We only have to play exactly the same game another twelve times and we will be safe. Only.
Danny (we actually won), Brighton


The real champions
Congratulations to Brighton who have become the new Linear 2017 Premier League Champions after their 3-1 win over West Brom (who beat Burnley, who beat Chelsea). Probably the perfect way to get your 1st Premier League win.
Mark in Manchester

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