Man City loss showed why Henderson is priceless to Liverpool. And is this the end for Pep?

Manchester City were missing a Jordan Henderson against Real Madrid. Plus, there is discussion over Pep Guardiola’s future and lots more reaction to Wednesday night’s Champions League match.

Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com…

 

Is this the end for Pep at City?
Dear Ed,

Watching last night’s game to see another corker and who our final opponents would be and wow, that sure served up a treat!

First off, what a comeback from Madrid. Absolutely outrageous that. To have your first shot on target In the 89th minute and your second a minute later, both going in and thus keeping you in the tie was truly astonishing, and then the penalty to take the lead for the first time in the tie, after just over 3 hours of football. Wow. Incredible stuff.

Just after the penalty, the camera cut to Phil Foden, who looked absolutely distraught; broken even. It was like he knew that with even 25 minutes left, City were not going to turn this around. Zinchencko had a similar look on his face a few minutes later. Such a heartbreaking defeat for them and the manner of it may even affect them in their remaining few league games in the run-in, as they looked mentally wounded by the end of the game.

As the game finished and the analysis started, I began to wonder….could this be it for Pep at City now? This great side he had built with the lavish spending allowed by the owners has been brilliant for so long but he has once again failed to deliver in the Champions League for them, and this is what they want more than anything. If you are Pep now and owners question you on what went wrong, what is your excuse this year? You surely can’t ask them to invest heavily yet again with a straight face and with his contract being up soon, would you trust him to rebuild a squad for another billion pounds and still not win the big one? I’m sure the City fans would, but the real question is would Sheikh Mansoor?

Another thing that occurred to me was the rumblings that certain players are rumoured to be leaving City this summer and the potential need for a rebuild at City; not a big one but there are several players that may need to be replaced. Rumours of Sterling, Mahrez and Jesus all being off in the summer have flown around for a few months now, and I doubt that bringing in just Haaland as a replacement for all of them would cut it. Add to that Fernandinho, who has been a great servant for them, but age has clearly caught up on him. Kyle Walker was great last night until his injury but again, how long can he carry on at the highest level now? 2 or 3 years tops? And the other interesting one for me is De Bruyne…he has stated in the past that he wants to win the Champions League. With him being 31 this year, would it not be best for him to move on to try and fulfil this dream? He would be an ideal replacement for Modric at Real Madrid for me (not that Modric looked finished last night – far from it). Perhaps that would be his best avenue to try and win the prize he coverts?

The question comes back again – is Pep the right man to rebuild the team?

Maybe it is best for him to walk away now, leaving a brilliant but slightly flawed legacy at City in that he won all the English prizes, most on multiple occasions, but always failed to deliver the big one. Maybe it is time for some new ideas and a new manager at City? There can be no denying that Pep has taken City to another level from those before him, but the question now is can he take them to the level they want? Right now, I think the answer is no.

Anyway, one final note: the last time Madrid lost a European Cup final was….1981. In Paris. To Liverpool. Hoping for a repeat of this rather than 2018!

Cheers
Neil (them “14” shirts Madrid wore after the game may bite them on the arse) Mulvaney

 

Pep’s modest impact
In the six seasons before Pep took over at City, they won 2 Premier Leagues, 2 League Cups, 1 FA Cup (and zero European Cups). Three major trophies and two that most people tend to scoff at.
In the (almost) six seasons since Pep took over at City, they have won 3 Premier Leagues, 4 League Cups, 1 FA Cup and zero European Cups. Four major trophies and four that most people tend to scoff at.

City need to win the Premier League this season (and surely they will?), because otherwise people will realise that the ‘impact’ of Pep will have been one more premier league and 2 more league cups over 6 years. I can’t imagine that was the owners’ expectation when he took over an already ridiculously strong squad and was given £1bn to improve it.

I’m not crying ‘Fraudiola’ here – just observing that, contrary to the impression you sometimes get, he hasn’t delivered a great deal more than his predecessors.
Shappo

 

A freak of nature? Or was Pep at fault?
Matthew Stead wrote a very fine article as usual on City’s exit from the Champions league last night in which he said Pep was excellent and did nothing wrong. Objectively speaking this is true and Matthew was entitled to say it for me. But did it really feel like that last night?

I know I know the feels aren’t the most reliable indicator or truth as the internet will attest to but sometimes we just feel something to be true as well.

Pep acted perfectly reasonably in his management last night and you could say what happened was outside of his control, a freak of nature, the hand of destiny even. Again this may be true.

But I really feel (and have written previously) that the Champions league requires more than excellence and an acceptance of fate in order to triumph. It’s different to winning the league where excellent consistency will achieve predictable results.

Pep has said this before, stating that success in the Champions league is a matter of chance, but is that all it really is? Does it feel like that?

For me, no.

The great sporting events are where greatness emerges. And what is greatness? We know it when we see it. For me it is a refusal to accept the hand that fate is giving you.

Like Liverpool in Istanbul, Man Utd vs Bayern, Ali vs Fraser, or the back nine of Augusta, we know human greatness when it emerges and this is why we watch these events. But conversely we know when we see a man or woman shrink from the occasion and pull back into themselves. Rory McIlroy burned up Augusta when there was nothing on the line but put the ball in someone’s back garden when the pressure was on.

Real Madrid last night did not accept defeat at 90 minutes and two goals down, I would contend that Pep did in extra time. Yes he did nothing wrong but is that enough to be called the greatest coach of his generation? Again for me, no it isn’t.

I said before Pep would need to go beyond himself to achieve Champions league glory and for me again last night he failed to do that.

He is a creator of sublime football teams but the greatest of a generation?

Not for me.
David

 

Guardiola will take the blame for Manchester City’s capitulation (and rightly so) but as a group of players on the pitch, you can’t be cruising through to the final and then let the game slip in stoppage time.  It can’t happen.  There has to be leadership on the pitch.  Those City players need to get their act together and fast because they’re in danger of winning NOTHING.

As for Real Madrid, they remind me of Djokovic in the 2019 Wimbledon final – outplayed by Federer, but able to win three sets on the tiebreak.  On every single metric, Federer (Man City) was superior but on the one that matters – the ultimate result – Djokovic (Real Madrid) won.  I have a theory that certain clubs have a European aura/heritage/pedigree that comes from winning when European competition was in its relative infancy – Real Madrid (the 50s), AC Milan (the 60s), Manchester United (the 60s) Liverpool and Bayern Munich (both the 70s).  These stories are passed down through generations and become part of the *CLICHÉ ALERT* DNA of the club.  It means that these clubs have a special buzz when it comes to European football, which means the players force themselves into playing better than their on-paper quality suggests and fighting to the end.

Other clubs simply don’t have that special aura, which means they are liable to underperforming.  Manchester City and Paris St Germain are both like that – steamrollering domestic opponents but looking timid when it comes to the crunch in Europe.  Even Arsenal under Wenger suffered from the same thing – winning doubles and unbeaten league titles but always looking out of their depth, even against average European opposition.
Matthew, Belfast

Pep’s mind control
First of all — that is why we watch football. The sheer unpredictable madness of the game from 85 minutes onwards. That is the transcendent simplicity and beauty of football – it takes a second to score a goal. That was on par with Man U v Bayern in 99 in terms of ‘holy F***’ what am I watching?

And genuinely, I thought City deserved to go through over two legs. Their players looked sharper and fitter, and whoever at  City was trying to sell Bernado I hope has been binned off.

But the main point I took from the game is that Pep is a manager who believes in systems and order — he doesn’t want world class individuals who can win a game in an instant, he wants 7-9 out of 10 players who will fit into his rigid structure. And for me that’s why it all fell apart — Real are the embodiment of chaos — what is their formation, what is their ethos? What does Carlo do on the touchline, apart from smoulder like he’s on his Yacht at St Tropez? But it works for them — they have brilliant individuals who can decide a game in an instant — whereas Pep drills his players to an inch of their lives — so when the system failed, as it did in spectacular fashion — City were utterly unable to respond to the setback. Pep believes in control and domination — if the opposition don’t have the ball, they can’t score, right? So he has basically invented a system where he plays with 6 midfielders. Bernado was everywhere. City dominate games but don’t score enough — might that be because you’re playing a tricksy winger/midfielder in Foden up front as a no 9?

It will be interesting to see how the chaos of Madrid do against another team who believe in control, Liverpool, in the final. I think – hope – Liverpool might have the edge because they have shown this season that they can thrive in the madness. We’ll see.

Unlucky City — with Haaland you’ll genuinely be unstoppable.
Dan, London

 

Scrap two-legged ties? No chance…
Who is it that want’s to scrap semi final two legged ties again?  Will be a crazy idea.  Over the years two legged semi finals have brought so many memorable games.  Must admit, I very nearly turned off the Real v City game as it ticked to the 89th minute.  City 1-0 up and pretty much had Real at arms length.  Glad I didn’t as what followed was sheer craziness.

The thing with Man City is, they can dominate teams and control games as they are an exceptional team. I would question whether they have the guts and real desire to dig deep and turn situations around when the going gets really tough.  Like Real have proved in the last three rounds, and Liverpool the night before at Villareal.  Under real pressure Man City crumble.  Has been shown a few times this season.  Last night, losing to Spurs at home and the FA Cup semi final defeat to Liverpool.  All had the same hallmarks, teams that took what they could give and attacked them themselves.  City invariably give away goals at key times.

Onto the final itself.  As a Liverpool fan, I believe we should beat Madrid.  City should have buried them many times, and I think Liverpool are more clinical with their chances.  However, Madrid have some serious cajones, and in their wide forwards Vinicius and Rodrygo, the tools to really hurt us.  Will be a fantastic final with two teams that refuse to lose.

All we need know is the stuffing to have been knocked out of City and they open the door further for Liverpool in the Premier League.  Will there be talk of City ‘bottling’ the treble now?  Or is that just the caveat to beat Liverpool with if they fail to win more trophies?

Regards
Kevin

 

Magic of the cup
Dear Editor,

Wow. Football, eh?

I am pleased not that City went out per se, but more that we can avoid an all-English final – I find them to be so tedious. They really lack the glamour you’d associate with a European final. Debates on the merit of four teams per country can wait for another day though.

My main point here is that Real Madrid represent a fight that I don’t think Liverpool have faced this season. They have all the qualities that have made Liverpool so excellent of late – and that worries me. The ability to change the game from the bench. The manager who has literally done it all. The talismanic forward who is scoring for fun. The relentless nature to stay in it until the end. And perhaps most importantly – they have that romantic relationship with the cup that just elevates them in this competition.

It is going to be so tough to win this game (it should be, mind – it’s the Champions League Final). Doesn’t take a tactical genius to work out that Fabinho will be absolutely key for us. Personally, I would also start Henderson – he is the master at marshalling the space left by Trent and Robertson; leave gaps down the sides and expect to be punished!  Though I expect Keita will get the nod due to his excellent form of late.

Other big choice will be Konate vs Matip. Would expect to see Konate – with the much talked about high line, pace will be key to ensure we are not caught out.  Plus he’s fantastic in the air.

Let’s just say I have some concerns.

Looking forward to it! Up the Reds!

Cheers,
Marc

 

Lazy commentary on Man City
Seeing a lot of people saying Pep is arrogant for not buying a striker, how it cost them the game, etc. First off, Jesus is a striker. See the Brazil national team. He also started the 2nd leg last I checked. Second, they allowed 6 goals over 2 games. Would a traditional striker have helped that? They scored 5 themselves, so not like scoring was the issue.

Also seeing a lot of people blaming De Bruyne. Last I checked City were going through until he was taken off. Kind of weird to blame him, is it not?

City lost this game largely because they were too slow once Walker got hurt, and with Pep deciding his midfield should consist of so many very, very slow players (Fernandino through age, and Gundogen through being Gundogen). The amount of times Gundogen was seen chasing the faster/stronger Madrid players and was just unable to keep up was striking, and there was no cover for that with Walker out, especially once Rodri was also removed. Sterling finally was brought on, but he isn’t exactly a defender (see him having to chase back and tackle wildly as evidence he was by-passing his own midfield with his speed to do so).

Anyway there is no way Madrid score all those goals if Walker stays fit. Regardless, the loss has nothing to do with not having a traditional striker.
Nathan, Newark

Romance beat Man City
I’ve been wondering to myself a lot about why haven’t Man City won the Champions League yet and the answers have gotten more esoteric but the logical ones make no sense.

I think I have it and by all means you can say I’m wrong because I’m not convinced but City badly lack a romantic attachment to the trophy. I know that sounds nuts but you hear it in the fans of a Liverpool, of a Real Madrid, of a Manchester United, Milan clubs, Barcelona, Chelsea ended up getting it through being hard done by against Barcelona and having the first Chelsea manager in a CL final be Roberto Di Matteo and I am convinced that is the intangible element that had Chelsea win it last season.

Pep Guardiola clearly has romantic ties to the trophy through Barcelona but do City? The fans boo the anthem, feel cheated by uefa and a lot are just sportswashed. How are they not champions of Europe? Best team, best manager, best resources, And yet here we are.
Tyla (I know its insane but City are running out of reasons) Roxburgh

 

Real Madrid are just football royalty, that’s how you rebuild a team @ManUtd, not pissing about with Ole and chanting “Youth Courage Success”. Top reds should have been chanting “Standards, Standards, Standards”

Credit to Madrid and City, at least they entertained us neutrals, can’t say the same for the obvious bias from BT Sport commentators, criminal how they’ve managed to snag spots for important games in the last 3 years. Darren Fletcher and Steve McManaman were in tears. McManaman was the priest giving Kyle Walkers eulogy by the end of it all !

It’s quite sweet watching PSG and Man City consistently fail in the CL, something Oil Money cannot buy (it will come eventually, every dog has it’s day, see Chelsea)
Kai, MUFC (Real Madrid to save football once again on the 28th please)

 

I’ve had some pretty full on fever dreams before but they’ve never gotten to the point where I’m emailing F365 and laughing about an imaginary football match. Oh well. Tomorrow’s reports of City’s 1-0 away win will no doubt soon sober me up.
Brian Morrissey. Waterford

 

Love the site. Longtime reader, never published.

Congrats to Madrid. However, good luck on a neutral ground May 28 against a pack of rabid dogs.

Also, maybe I missed him in the mailbox, but whatever happened to Hartford / Hong Kong Ian? Enjoyed his contributions and he was Tampa LFC supporters OG.
Jamaican Marc, Tampa

 

Phil Foden
Its a harsh reality, but I think Foden is going to have to leave City to reach his full potential. He’ll never taste European greatness with Pep holding him back.

Shame, really.
Si, LFC

 

Pep took his eyes off the match…
For all of the talk about Real Madrid’s never say die attitude.I think the main reason they won last night was because Pep took his eyes off the match. He thought he has won and he was making plans for Newcastle as his substitutions suggest.

I think the competitiveness of the EPL cost them another all English finals
Eteng, Michael (Cross River State, Nigeria)

 

Six games to greatness
So after 3 tough, season finale defining games in 6 days Liverpool are now just 6 games away from greatness. I’ve not allowed myself to get excited about the “quad talk” and am still just thinking “each game as it comes” but it’s so close now I’m beginning to smell it. City showed last night how they can bottle it & self implode when the pressure is on & they’re now in the position where winning “just” the premier league is a disappointment. This is the most exciting season I’ve ever experienced (and I was watching in the mid 80s), even surpassing the premier league winning season, mainly down to how easy that was and the fact it was won pretty much by Christmas. It’ll be disappointing if we only come away with the one pot but that won’t take away from what this team have achieved. 6 games to go… it’s getting exciting & worrying as a Liverpool fan but as fans of certain other teams they must be shitting themselves at the thought of us doing the unthinkable.
Marcel G, LFC… been a while since we’ve had the F365 league table of who are the happiest fans.

 

This is why Henderson is priceless
Just out of words to write about whatever has happened. As a Liverpool Fan, happy to have a chance to settle scores with Real Madrid. But, Who was the leader on the pitch for City. Who was keeping things calm for City on the pitch ?

Money can buy technical class and ability but can it buy Champions league ?Can it buy leadership ? Can it buy calmness ? Can it buy Passion? You see City players, you don’t hear people yelling , shouting and spurring on each other . You look at Liverpool and you look at why hendo is bloody brilliant. Keeping players focused against complacency and casualness. You need such super characters on the field. The leaders who can keep it calm.

Money can get perfect football but not trophies.
Arsh, YNWA (Add Milner, VVD to the list as well!)

 

Both ends of the spectrum
Yesterday I trotted off to Rotherham town centre to watch the Millers’ open top bus tour to celebrate their promotion to the Championship – “literally painting the town red” according to the dipstick on BBC local news – then bolted home in time for the Champions League semi. What a contrast in emotions!

Not particularly a Citeh fan, but as Fletcher and Macmanaman said, it was the final that the competition deserved with the two best teams in Europe destined to meet after 90 minutes of the game. After 120 minutes,  it was a different story. What a night! BTW – the ref should be shot.

Now all I have to do is convince the wife to leave our friends’  wedding we are attending on 28 May, before 7-30 so I can get home in time for the final. Quadruple? My task is much more difficult.
Bladey Mick (Football – love it!!!!!)

 

Is added time just made up?
Unlike most, the cheerleading of English sides that you hear in BT commentary doesn’t hugely bother me. It happens in all countries and often much more vociferously than we get here. However, I did find it hilarious at the outrage expressed by both commentators that we were “only” getting 3 minutes of added time at the end of extra time. That’s 3 minutes from a 15 minute half, or the equivalent of 9 minutes from a 45 minute half. In that half there were no goals and one substitution. I mean seriously, how much time were they wanting?

It did get me thinking about added time though, and how wildly it seems to vary. For comparison, at the end of the Liverpool v Villareal game there were just 2 minutes added. That’s 2 minutes at the end of a 45 minute half. In that half there were 3 goals, a red card and 5 stops for substitutions. Yet only 2 extra minutes were played? It reminded me of a game last season where Liverpool beat Palace 7-0. There were 4 second half goals, I think 5 substitutions and there was just one minute of added time.

Now these things don’t really matter and it obviously didn’t affect either game, but it does seem weird that when the result is already clear, referees seem to have the flexibility to just end the game early. You would think that added time would be calculated in a very set way, so that no matter the outcome of the match, the method was always the same. That doesn’t seem to be the case though and referees just seem to be allowed to vibe it and decide on an amount of time that suits the scoreline in the game.

As I’ve said, it’s not something that hugely matters, and I’m sure it’s not the most insightful takeaway from last night, but it just seems odd.
Mike, LFC, London

 

Sleepless in Seattle CONCACAF CL thoughts
So last night as the European Champions League semi final second legs came to their end in quite spectacular fashion across the pond the CONCACAF Champions League Final, of which is played over two legs was also reaching its conclusion and it was a special one for not just Seattle but the MLS.

It is no secret that i am a huge NFL fan, supported Seattle Seahawks for well over a decade and my passion for the sport is equal to that of football so naturally i will back any Seattle based franchise or team that play, the Sounders are a reasonably successful MLS side within the US having won the MLS Cup twice in 2016 and 2019 as well as finishing runners up in 2020 but they have never won a Champions League let alone reach a final but their 3-0 victory over the Mexican side Pumas UNAM last night (5-2 on aggregate) is not just a huge achievement for the city and club but also for the MLS, since the CONCACAF Champions League changed from the previous incarnation of the Champions’ Cup the competition has been dominated by Mexican sides, the last time a Mexican team did not win the competition including the Champions’ Cup era was back in 2005 when Costa Rican side Saprissa won 3-2 on aggregate over UNAM.

The last MLS side to lift the Champions’ Cup was LA Galaxy in 2000 who beat Honduras side Olimpia 3-2, a side including one of the most loved and famous MLS players in Cobi Jones, there are many reasons behind why Mexican teams dominate the competition, for a quick summary it is basically they pay their stars high wages and the ones who have the potential to head to stronger leagues choose not to because either they are priced out of a move by their club or choose not to take a pay cut, but back to last night and Seattle, they were truly dominate and deserved the 3-0 victory with goals from club legends Nicolas Lodeiro and Raul Ruidiaz, for a team founded in 2007 they have managed to win nearly every trophy available, apart from the Club World Cup which they will now take part in next season, will Sounders be the first of many MLS sides to lift the Champions League? Perhaps, but the Mexican league is a very strong league within the CONCACAF region so i dont expect any shift of power anytime soon.
The Admin @ At The Bridge Pod