Ten Hag sack at Man Utd ‘is coming’ after ‘losing the dressing room’ and two ‘baffling’ decisions

The Mailbox suspects Erik ten Hag has ‘lost the dressing room’ at Manchester United and it’s only a matter of time before he gets the boot. Plus, Liverpool, PGMOL response, VAR audio and more…

Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com…

Ten Hag…
Here’s the thing. We all know that United is rotten to the core because of the Glazers, but the reality is we can’t do anything about that. The club may be sold one day, who knows. Until then we have to do the best we can.

The question is – is Ten Hag capable of making us the best we can be?

Ultimately he’s the one putting the team out, motivating the players, setting the tactics and managing the games. And he’s doing an awful job.

So can he turn it round, or would another manager be able to do better the squad we have?

For me, the time is coming. I can’t see any progress this season. The Onana and Mount signings were baffling. I strongly suspect he’s lost the dressing room.

Lose against Brentford (highly likely) and I would be pulling the trigger.
RQT (MUFC)

Jekyll and Hyde performance
A youngster whom we bought for a huge price shining with 2 well taken goals. A young player coming through to the first team and establishing himself as a superstar. Two or three other signings who has shown flashes of potential over the last two years. These are the positives from a struggling United side.

A goalie who supposedly is a world beater with the ball at his feet is playing as if he does not know how to use his hands, in addition to being unable to find his teammates with majority of the long balls he tries. Our second and third choice defenders are playing with zero sense of how to defend. Any left back we get is immediately getting injured. We seem to give away free goals the moment we score ourselves. I can go on!!!

I dont know the purpose of me writing here. Possibly just a way to rant. It has really got me thinking though, what could possibly be the issue. When I look at other teams, we have players who are on paper as good or better than the other team. What is it that is making us play so poorly? Any answers???
E

VAR audio/Liverpool
There’s been a couple of mentions in the mailbox and PGMOL’s statement about communication protocols.  Here’s the rub, they already have those protocols in place it’s just that, for whatever reason, Darren England failed to follow those protocols and led with an extremely rushed, ambiguous recommendation that falls down under the slightest scrutiny.

‘Check Complete’.  Are we to believe that this is the protocol when advising the ref what the video images show?  Many pundits and journalists seem to think so.  Let’s head over to the audio from the Newcastle – Liverpool match earlier in the season after Nunez scored where the final words from the VAR were:  “Craig, the lines have come out as onside, so I’m going to recommend you award the goal, the recommendation is you award the goal”.

The explanation we’re led to believe is that Darren England thought he was checking for a goal to be awarded.  Here’s the transcript as Diaz ran through:

Assistant referee 1: “Waiting. Delaying, delaying.”

VAR: “Possible offside, Diaz.”

Assistant referee 2: “Give it.”

Assistant referee1: “Coming back for the offside, mate.”

VAR: “Just checking the offside. Delay, delay.”

At what point is Darren England (VAR) suggesting that he thinks the on-field decision is a goal?

If he thinks it’s a goal then the procedure is to check all actions in the phase of play leading up to the goal for a possible infringement.  This does not happen, there is no check on the interaction between Salah and Romero, they go straight to drawing the lines.

Neither Darren England or the Assistant VAR notice that the game is restarted from the Spurs half rather than the centre circle.  Two men whose sole job is to watch the screens fail to pick this up until the Replay Operator prompts them twice, as they ignore his first prompt, that there is a problem.

Darren England then takes it upon himself to withhold information from the referee rather than inform him that a goal should’ve been awarded and let him decide whether to break protocol in the spirit of the game.  It is the job of the VAR to inform the ref of actions that may have been missed.  It is not his job to decide that nothing should be done.  The ball went out for a throw-in 30 seconds after the restart – what’s to prevent a discussion between the VAR and on-field officials and then between the ref/4th official and managers/captains?

It’s farcical and hopefully this scrutiny will result in wholesale change because the level of unprofessionalism on display here amounts to gross misconduct at the forefront of a multibillion pound industry.
James Outram, Wirral

A standard rugby video referee conversation:

“So I’m seeing direct contact with the head, a high degree of danger, decision is red card. Agree?:”
“Yes, no mitigation, high degree of danger, red card”
“Ok, thank you”

A standard cricket video referee conversation:
“Impact in line, wickets hitting, out. You’ll need to reverse your original decision.”

A football video conversation:
VAR: Check complete, check complete. That’s fine, perfect. Off.

Referee: Cheers mate
VAR: Thank you mate
Referee. Well done boys. Good process.

No wonder there is confusion. Any reason why the VAR team can’t be instructed to just be clear. Literally one sentence would have prevented this:

VAR: Check complete, check complete. Stick with your decision, onside, goal stands.

Referee: Onside? Did you say, onside?
VAR: Yes, onside, stick with decision.
Referee. Decision was offside.
VAR: Whoops, Then, you need to overturn, decision is onside. Goal should be allowed.
Referee: PEEP

So simple. It’s actually mind boggling this type of conversation doesn’t take place. Of course, if we actually got to listen to the mic, like basically any other sport, this also would not happen.
Mike, LFC, Dubai

Similar to Rob, I’ve been sending in VAR solutions which haven’t reach the mailbox – probably because they are boring af, and definitely not as much fun as everybody losing their minds, but here goes again regardless. The PGMOL statement with the audio shows how essential the main change is – it needs to be taken away from them. Not completely, they need to be involved, but they can’t run the (shit) show any longer. Their proposed incremental improvements, if made, are not sufficient, as Rob say it needs a total rethink, and PGMOL haven’t shown anything to make us think that they are capable of enacting the necessary change.

1. So how to save VAR?
   Take it off PGMOL and give it to an independent body – the broadcasters owning it with PGMOL presence in the booth would work
2. Play the conversations between the on-pitch officials and VARs over the stadium speakers, with the footage on the big screen – this transparency will help fans understand why decisions were made, even if they still don’t agree with them (might even reduce the abuse) – like rugby already do it
3. Remove pitch-side monitors as part of this
4. Enforce clearer comms – the first thing said during a check should be what the on-field decision was, and what needs to be checked. The check is only complete when all parties agree on the outcome – again like rugby already do it
5. We might need to stop the clock for this – introducing this might also help with timewasting
6. Reduce the scope of VAR to only completely missed matters of fact – on-pitch officials can ask to check if they have missed something, VAR can highlight something that has been missed, but otherwise subjective calls stay with the on-pitch officials, who are closest to the action and therefore can apply the best context to subjective decisions – no more pernickety slow-mos for the sack of it
7. Offside – like ball-tracking for crossing the line, this is a matter of fact, and the technology appears to exist as seen in the world cup – use it
8. Stop changing the rules – another mailboxer said football needs to get back to basics, e.g. handball needs to be intentional, that’s it – give the refs less to get wrong

VAR can still be useful if it serves its purpose – catch the howlers. It’s too far up Howard Webb’s arsehole the moment, rip it out as forcefully as possible.
Gofezo (bit weird that last bit, sorry)

Good afternoon,

I do hope I am not too late for your discussion about the above incidents. I find it very hard to understand why a manager like Jurgen Klopp is always having to face the music because he criticises so many decisions made  by the officials in various matches.

Last Saturday’s absolutely astounding decisions to disallow the Luis Diaz goal, give a red card to Curtis Jones based on a still photo and the first yellow card given to Diogo Jota all highlight how VAR is not being used correctly.  In the first case, why did the AVAR not ask the VAR to check with the referee that the goal had been given? This is a clear instance of the VAR system not being used properly or effectively. Some may argue that dis-honesty was at play but let us hope that this was not the case.

In the case of the change from a yellow card to a straight red for Curtis Jones was based solely on the still of Jones boot on the defenders shin. Again this illustrates how VAR is not being used properly. Surely, if the referee had watched the whole clip of this incident he would have seen that the challenge was neither malicious or intended. Based on that I believe the yellow card given should have been rescinded.

In the case of the first yellow card given to Jota, I believe the referee would not have shown the yellow to Jota if he had watched the VAR replay. And the VAR should have intervened to advise the referee accordingly.

VAR was introduced to help the on-field match officials make the correct decisions if there is any doubt. It seems to be the case at the moment that VAR is being used indiscriminately when it should be used 100% of the time.

As far as I am concerned, VAR and its use needs a re-think and a definite set of rules implemented to improve the situation. As a football fan I am fed up watching games where either: a) controversial incidents are subjected to VAR scrutiny, or, b) VAR is not called on to help the referee. This is totally unacceptable and needs to be rectified asap.

As I live in Poland I only watch matches on television but this does not stop me from becoming very angry at some of the ludicrous decisions often seen in games. Like Jurgen Klopp I would also be in trouble a lot of the time for criticising bad refereeing calls during matches.

Thank you,
Paul Robinson, Wloclawek, Poland.

So I’ve been thinking about this now for a a few days and now the video has come out and it’s such an absolute cluster fuck of a mess, you’ve got to wonder….

Could VAR be sued?

And I’m not talking by Liverpool themselves, or even by Diaz… I’m talking about the betting public.

So let’s say this mess up stops Joe Bloggs collecting 10 grand on Diaz scoring 15 goals this season, but he gets 14….

Or something to that effect.

Is it now possible for VAR, or more specifically Darren England to be sued for their shockingly inept decision?

Will be an interesting watch.
Barry

PGMOL Response (and Rival Fan Response)
I’m legitimately baffled by fans of rival clubs who genuinely do not agree with Liverpool following up on the circumstances around Diaz’s goal. If it’s banter, I get it, enough said. But there seem to be a lot of people expressing the sentiment that “well, it’s not a conspiracy, so Liverpool should just shut up and accept that mistakes happen”. Do these people genuinely believe that everything falls into these two buckets, “deliberate conspiracy” and “acceptable degree of human error”? When people at their jobs or in their industries make massive mistakes due to human error, does everyone just shrug and say “well, Dave didn’t mean to [do stupid thing], so I guess we should just ask Dave to try really really hard not to [do stupid thing] again next time”?

Liverpool’s pressure on PGMOL has already resulted in the unprecedented (I believe?) step of releasing the audio of the VAR team’s decision. It already succeeded in getting PGMOL to expand on their statement. Ash Metcalfe was spot on when he tore through the statement line-by-line, and I’d bet LFC will be doing likewise when they respond further to PGMOL. The desirable outcome from all of this would be the implementation of a process/controls which would prevent this kind of egregious error from being repeated. The vague promises made in this statement are along the right track: if they were coherently and transparently implemented, we could have some degree of confidence. Additional pressure needs to be applied for this to happen, given that PGMOL appear to believe they have now done enough for this to go away.

Listening to the audio massively increased the level of sympathy I have for the referees, VAR officials and replay operators as individuals. I do not believe any of them are incompetent (if anything they sound very competent); I certainly do not believe any of them are conspiring against LFC. But listening to the audio also confirmed the total lack of sympathy I have for PGMOL and the system they have put in place. It is shambolic. It is a badly designed process. If PGMOL were in charge of hospital emergency rooms, can you imagine how many f**king people would die every day? This is the point being made: their job is not easy, decisions need to be made quickly and are often high pressure situations. That is the very reason why a robust process needs to exist to mitigate the risk of human error/miscommunications.

Liverpool’s persistence on this topic could/should benefit all PL clubs, at the detriment of no other PL club. Spurs are not going to be asked to replay the game – I don’t believe that LFC is even asking for that, reports confirm this, and clearly this would never happen even if they did ask for it. Liverpool are not going to be given a bonus 1 or 3 points in the table. Manchester City’s inevitable 4th title will not come with an asterisk. Manchester United and Chelsea will not finish in the top 4 either way. We all know that the way PGMOL and VAR is managed in England is an absolute s**tshow, what the f**k is wrong with you people? Are you really unable to respond to anything a rival club does without bristling at it? Situations like this make it clear that the European Super League will inevitably succeed. Football fans in this country have no sense of solidarity whatsoever.
Oliver Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland

Evening things out…
Very disappointed that my club, Liverpool, have been quite boring about the whole thing. Not asking for replays, extra points, beheadings. It’s rather taken the fun out of it for me, now its a battle for the heart of a procedural document kept in someone’s desk drawer, yawn.

So instead I’ve entertained myself thinking about alternative endings. The saying goes that these things even themselves out over the course of a season and while I can think of may cases of bad subjective decisions, incorrect offsides, etc, I can’t actually think of one other case where the officials all agree that there has been a goal and then it isn’t awarded. My point being, this isn’t going to happen again and the likelihood of it happening a second time to a team Liverpool are playing is very low, so it won’t even itself out.

So, my bright idea. For the remainder of the season Jurgen has a special card in his back pocket, like a joker card, that he can pull out at any point he desires to eradicate a goal conceded. Imagine the drama! Every time we concede a goal (usually about 10 mins into a game) the camera pans to Klopp, hand in back pocket pondering… A title decider agains Wolves at the end of the season (sounds familiar) and we go a goal down, bang he finally plays his joker card. Scenes.
TM

Chippy
Dear Sirs

Chippy by name, Chippy by nature.

I will accept all the cheat jibes because we all know that spending the most money wins you the title, right United? Arsenal? Chelsea?

Calling City fans Sh*t- from an Arsenal fan?!

In 1998 when we were in Div 3( old money), our av attendance was 28261- I think the ground held 35,000 so yes not selling out- but for a div 3 team that was higher than most if not all the championship, and even some prem teams.

Also, in 1993 – Arsenal 2 years after winning the title, you won the FA Cup & League Cup- with an av attendance of…. 24403 – in a 38,000 stadium, in the premier league. Maybe you were re-building a stand, I don’t know.

You muppet, wanted to insult you worse but want this published.

Cheers
K ( noticing a lot of untruths being printed in mailbox, trump-esque)