Ruben Amorim sack? He should ‘resign’ and take ‘one-trick Bruno’ with him

The Man Utd manager and many of his players get a kicking after that Europa League final, but Spurs fans are giddy.

Send your views to theeditor@football365.com. Should Ange still be sacked?

Barbecue?
Sorry about that slugfest. Is the BBQ still on?
Daniel Humphrey/Humphrey Daniel

…So I just wanted to check if the BBQ is still happening. Don’t wanna start making the potato salad now for nothing.
Andy, Menorca

Ruben should resign
I watched this game last night and it was the most boring game of football I’ve ever watched and considering it was a cup final in a fantastic stadium makes it worse.

Supporters traveled for 33 hours on a ferry to watch a boring game of football like it was and paid mega money as well.

Manchester United will not be the football team it was while the manager is there.

He thinks he is still managing Sporting and trying to use the same system he used with them, if they keep him employed United will probably get relegated to the Championship next season because the Premier League is a different type of football altogether. They need a manager that knows how to use different systems not just the one and is able to get the team playing football again not like they are at the moment.

He payed Mount and should have played Garnacho who has played every game and ripped the defence apart, it was Amorim that lost the game and should resign straight away.
Paul

…When the manager knows he’s not been good enough to even deserve a payoff, you know two things – #1 he really hasn’t been; #2 he’s a decent chap, who can evaluate his own performance. I’ll add a #3 that he’s sensible enough to know that being seen to take a big pay-off makes it look like he was only in it for the money, and teams won’t necessarily be so keen to take a punt on a guy who would need a job.

Thing is, I don’t understand the double standards from the fans. When Ole was all about counter-attacking, he was lampooned (while doing better). When Ten Hag had to adapt to the players available in the meantime, he was derided for a lack of discernible style (while doing better). Amorim’s tactic is ALL about counter-attack at pace, yet we simply don’t see this in action at all. When we launched long balls to Fellaini, Weghorst and Scotty, the manager was mocked. But it’s ok for Amorim to do it less effectively with Maguire?

As many others have said, while painful, this is arguably a preferable result. It’s not like we were going to be allowed to celebrate it anyway. The club needs a reset with a number of high-profile players being sold or just plain culled. It needs to go back to being built around youth. We need that youthful running and fearlessness, we need that hunger, we need players who are about the team not themselves, we need players from the academy and area. And as a result of this “performance”, we now can’t realistically afford to keep these big-wage players. It’s time to act like we were actually relegated, clear the deadwood, and rebuild properly, whether we keep Amorim or not.

Critically, the club needs to be shot of players who regularly get exposed in the biggest games. Obviously, I’m thinking Maguire in particular there who once again exposed, Shaw (powers definitely now very waned) as he has done on repeat down the years. I’m also thinking one-trick Bruno who once again couldn’t pass in between the cracks and just pinged balls out wide. I’ll say it again: Bruno has personally *missed* as many big chances as he has created. Too often, he was more interested in moaning at his team-mates than being available for the pass.

Back to the main villain here though, forget the refusal to make substitutions in a timely manner – poor Amad was run out by the 60th minute, having been kicked all game – the introduction of Mainoo with 2 minutes of regular time left was a f***ing insult. This guy has the perfect skill set for exactly this kind of game where space is tight, but no… seems Ineos want to get him to accept being sold, so puppy dog Amorim won’t play him.

Players like Mainoo, Amad, Heaven, Yoro, Ugarte and even poor Dorgu – who seems to have lost confidence to run at his man – are more important to the future of this club than this manager. Or indeed the asset-stripping, cost-reducing part-owners.

One final point though: that was one f**king epic clearance by Van De Ven. It won them the trophy. Can you imagine Maguire doing that?
Badwolf

MORE ON SPURS BEATING MAN UTD FROM F365:
👉 16 Conclusions on Spurs winning the Europa League: Amorim sack, Postecoglou vindication, terrible Manchester United
👉 Rio Ferdinand blames £25m Man Utd star for Europa League final defeat to Tottenham
👉 Ten Europa League final players who should be axed in Man Utd, Spurs rebuilds
👉 Amorim offers to quit ‘without conversation or compensation’ if Man Utd want new manager

Man Utd need a reset whatever
United desperately need that open-heart surgery identified a few years back by a very wise man. And now they’ll have less cash to do it with. An undeserved CL place would have been a welcome accelerant, but it doesn’t change what needs to happen at United.

And that is a complete reset. This squad is utterly terrible, and also really small. ETH got rid of loads and only brought in a small number of bodies – at great expense – almost all of whom haven’t worked out. Manchester United went into a major European final with 1 single striker, who is an unproven kid completely out of form. No options on the bench. No Ole on to win it. Nothing. Maguire up front.

This has been the season of great equalisation in the premier league. For far too long the league places were largely determined by Net Transfer Spend + Wages. This season it really isn’t like that, with so much quality across 15 odd places. And you know what? Most of the teams haven’t been built by ridiculous overspending.

So there is a path for United to tread. Young, unproven but ambitious players. A switch to a system and players to fit that. A young, talented coach who so far has only really talked the talk, but at least has a clear ethos.

Will it work? Who knows. But I’d much rather try Amorim’s rebuild than go back to randomly buying whomever agents want to pawn off to Ed Woodward this week.
Ryan, Bermuda

…By all accounts, that was one of the worst cup finals of all time. It may even be the worst United game I’ve ever seen. Spurs fans won’t care, and rightly so. They have nobly passed their banter club crown to United, who seem to have to accepted the gift with open arms. Or floppy ones, if you happen to be Andre Onana.

As a United fan I am deeply worried. Not because we lost in a final to the 17th best team in England but because if you haven’t notice United can’t actually beat any of the top 16 teams in England not called Manchester United. Not only that but we have a team that is seemingly full of players – with few exceptions – that are physically incapable of performing in their designated league.

United play at half pace compared to the good English teams (including Spurs). I am worried this is down to both the manager AND the players. If it’s one or the other I can work with it and have some patience but I think it might be both. This would mean yet another full reset is needed. After every other reset that has followed a managerial appointment in the last 13 years and counting.

If we err on the side of optimism and say Amorim is just hampered by his players (we are at least starting to dominate possession even if we aren’t doing anything with it) then let’s look at the squad (again, because everyone wants another United deep dive).

Onana – not good enough. In his prime.
Bayindir – not good enough. In his prime.
Heaton – old

Dorgu – has the physicality and possibly some skill but is still inexperienced
Shaw – fragile, cannot be trusted to play every week, hasn’t performed consistently for United in two years. Also turns 30 in July.
Dalot – availability is his biggest asset. Not great going forward. In his prime
Mazraoui – has been surprisingly available, good defender, not great going forward. In his prime
Maguire – old, plodding, not reliable in any sense, annoyingly stupid occasionally and prone to mistakes. Good for ten minutes in each game as a centre forward though
Yoro – inexperienced but definitely going to be a great player if he avoids injuries
De Ligt – a younger Maguire. In his prime.
Martinez – injury prone, short. But a fan favourite and we love him. In his prime.
Lindelof – old and never good enough (wasted a minute for spurs by complaining about time added on
Heaven – young but looks like he has potential and physicality
Amass – looks a baller but he’s tiny! Young and inexperienced
Fredricson – has done ok when he’s played. Young and inexperienced
Malacia – probably not good enough but also lacking physicality, especially after his injury. Hasn’t played the full 90 mins on loan for PSV since March. In his prime.
Jonny Evans – too old and injured

Bruno – heart and would of the team. Brilliant but frustrating. Getting on a bit.
Ugarte – should be approaching his prime but can’t get in the side against Spurs in a European final. Does he lack the pace and passing ability for the Premier League?
Eriksen – slow, old, past it
Casemiro – see Eriksen
Mainoo – huge potential but easy to get past. Lack of physicality.
Toby Collyer – looks ok when fit. Tenacious if limited passing ability (from what we’ve seen).
Dan Gore – tiny but tenacious. Young and massively inexperienced
Mount – theoretically a proper Premier League player in his prime. Practically an unknown entity due to injuries.

Hojlund – still young, lacking confidence. Probably also lacking skill, strength and intelligence. Has the size and speed (and possibly the ability) to trouble defences acrosss the world but hasn’t figured out how to use it. Quite possibly never will under the spotlight at United.
Marcus Rashford – skillful, fast, strong when he wants to be, in his prime. Performs only in fits and starts and doesn’t want to be at United (don’t necessarily blame him for the latter). Still only 27.
Zirkzee – seems quite decent. Has the physicality and the skill to play in the Oremier league, not necessarily the speed. Can. Not. Shoot. Still young(ish)
Amad – young, skillful, great at pressing but lacks physicality when on the ball and entering the box. Has scored seven league goals this year but three were against Southampton.
Garnacho – Still young. Much like Amad seems a little lightweight but doesnt necessarily work as hard. Slight better quality with his shooting though. Exciting player to watch.
Antony – should be in his prime. Rubbish for United after an ok first season. Lighting up the Conference League for Betis. Not a Premier League quality forward though could be repurposed as a wing back?
Ethan Wheatley – Young, massively inexperienced. No idea if he has the talent required at the top level.
Chido Obi – lots of hype. Tall but needs to fill out. Only 17. Could be a good player, could disappear.
Sancho – should be in his prime. Not apparently quick enough or physical enough for the Premier League. Seems to have some other baggage.

Right so from that list of 34 players we have 14 players that are still young and unproven in the Premier League. 7 players are passsed it (or never were it), including Luke Shaw who has been a walking injury for far too long. That leaves 13 who are in their prime (or should be) but that includes two goalkeepers who are definitely not performing at the required level, at least three players who have big question marks over their injury records and at least three who are currently plying their trade elsewhere because they want to leave the club. Malacia is a combination of all three (except the goalkeeper part). This leaves us with four competent outfield players in their prime who have no question marks over their quality* or availability: Dalot, Mazraoui, Fernandes, Ugarte. And the jury is probably out on Ugarte.

I wouldn’t be totally upset if United shed 13 players this summer. But if we shed the ones I’m thinking about, we’d be down to a squad of 21, 14 of which would fit in that young and inexperienced bracket. I think this is potentially disastrous. Not for the first time in its history United are over reliant on young players to perform. Whilst there is bags of potential there, the Premier League is less forgiving than at any time in the past and most of those players are lacking the physicality or composure to thrive in it.

Equally, United are now incentivised to sell the best of those players before selling the 13 I mentioned. In doing so, the soul of the club will be damaged as a result, even if you don’t think Garnacho or Mainoo are good enough.

All this is to say that United are now more than open heart surgery away from competing in the Premier League. Fans will be expecting a bounce back into Europe next year. Some will even fancy a Champions League spot or a title push. The reality is that the first goal – for the first time in the Premier League era – will be to get to 40 points. Based on the current squad, anything else will be a bonus.

Perhaps we’ll be able to say a lot of those young players have come of age next year and everyone will stop being injured and we’re no longer looking at a squad containing 4 players in their prime. If we do so then we’ve had a better season than this one by a long stretch. But then we could also be relegated for the first time in 50+ years.
Ashmundo (quietly pleased for Ange, mate)

*in terms of being good enough to play in the league, not win it. By the latter measure we are very fucked indeed.

It’s who real fans are, mate
Last night the football wasn’t great, but as the fans of either team could tell you, on such an occasion the only thing that matters is the result. Shortly after the final whistle two of my three sons drove down to Tottenham just to be part of the celebration. Since I started taking the boys to Spurs in the early nineties, the celebrations have been fairly thin.

However, they’ve ignored the glory hunters they grew up with, (who probably couldn’t find certain northern cities on a map, but claim to be die hard fans nonetheless), so their joy at the final whistle was a real pleasure for me.

I finished my beer whilst reading this site and a couple of others, and it crystallised the ‘online universe’ of football fans.

The volume of messages demeaning the Spurs achievement with tired old cliches “tallest dwarf”, “bald men and combs” are so typical of the online football universe, especially irritating from fans of clubs not involved. Many of whom who are probably like my lads school friends, die hard fans of clubs in cities they haven’t even visited. Just let the fans of either team celebrate/vent as appropriate. Let people enjoy the moment, not everything has to be a d*ck measuring contest. There is a shortage of joy in the world, so just back off and let fans enjoy themselves.

So far this year I have been genuinely happy for Newcastle and Palace, whilst I know a couple of Geordies I know no Palace fans at all, but could appreciate the joy of both sets of fans at winning, after some lean years.

I will join my lads to see the parade on Friday, and be back in my usual seat on Sunday. As grumpily as ever I will fork out the cost of my season ticket renewal at the latest possible moment.

As I finished my last beer last night, I browsed your late night mailbox, and found myself totally overwhelmed. In amongst all the garbage mentioned above, there was a brief note from Garey Vance MUFC. Despite my not having written to this site in quite a long time, he name checked me, telling me to enjoy the celebrations.

Many thanks to Garey for his wishes, I suspect he’s a kindred spirit, because he demonstrated “It’s who real football fans are, mate”.
Jim French, Herts (Spurs since ’59)

…Argentina 0 Germany 1
Brazil 0 Italy 0
Germany 1 Argentina 0
Man Utd 1 Liverpool 0

Are just four awful finals played by teams far better than those last night. Do the winners give a solitary f**k? No. Does a single Spurs fan give a f*** if some pleb thought it wasn’t a good match? No.

Almost prefer it in fact.
Dan Mallerman

…Has a game ever summed up so well the quality, form and mood of two teams who were suffering awful seasons? Even the goal, everything was so on brand for the occasion.

Anyway, that’s not why I’m writing in. As a Newcastle fan who was at Wembley this season and simply didn’t know what it was like to feel pure* unbridled joy at winning something, I’ve really enjoyed watching Palace, Spurs (and even Bologna!) fans celebrate their team’s success, without the usual pained jealousy. People in stands crying, hugging, feeling emotions that haven’t experienced ever or in such a long time. It’s what football’s about.

This is also real life sports fandom, not keyboard warriors or Twitter virgins banging on about what trophies matter, who is the real ‘big club’ and who has history. Raw, happy emotion at watching the football club that is a source of important escapism in your life, win a trophy and celebrate as one.

Say what you want about this season but it’s truly been a memorable season of disruption for me, so it’ll live long in the memory, and will hopefully continue.
Harry, York
*I expect sniggers at the back about the ‘Pure’ PIF

…Nothing worse than bitter fans having a go at clubs for winning “tinpot” trophies or downplaying the result because of the quality of the game. Some real salty tears in the mailbox this morning.

I loved seeing Spurs win last night. Not just because watching United lose is always hilarious, but because I’ve always had a soft spot for Spurs. As a child of 90’s football, there was just something brilliant about Spurs. Ginola, Klinsmann, Ferdinand etc. They were always fun to watch.

It was also fantastic to see their fans and players celebrating and enjoying it so much. I watched the game with a lifelong Spurs fan, and there was a small group of other Spurs fans in the United dominated pub. It was great to see how delighted they were. Modern football has increasingly found a smaller and smaller pool of teams hoovering up all the pots. This season has been different and all the better for it. Palace winning the FA cup, Spurs winning last night. Even as a Liverpool fan I was able to enjoy the celebrations as Newcastle broke their trophy curse.

Whether it was deserved or not is irrelevant, whether they are good or not is irrelevant. They won and should celebrate their win for a long time. So don’t be bitter and try to downplay it.
Mike, LFC, London

Restorative justice for Spurs
Delighted Spurs fan here. I’ve been hearing people say we don’t deserve to be in the Champions League. So, a little history lesson to explain why we do.

In 2012, we qualified for the CL on merit, in the league. Then Chelsea, who had not, won the Champions League and took Britain’s fourth place off us. With so much prize money in the CL that we were robbed of, who knows how we might have kicked on if we’d been let in?

Qualification in ’25 rights the wrong of 2012.

Kind regards,
Sam

It was proper sh*t though
Well, after a true clash of the shite-ans we can safely retire the cirque du Bilbao for this year.

The fact that it went in off a stumble and handled own goal by of course Luke “only fit for big games” Shaw is the cherry on the icing on the cake.

Suffice to say with no money to spend it will be even more difficult to watch ManU next season.

Oh well.
Richard Andrews

…Hahahah maybe Wenger was right. That was an embarrassing watch by two teams that shouldn’t even be picked for TV, let alone in the champions league.

There was some artistic justice though, one of the worst goals ever ‘scored’ multiple deflections, hands, scuffs and a keeper who lathers his gloves with butter before each game (surely he must). Slabhead slabbing around with pashun and little else. Shaw being shaw (shit), manager frozen like deer in the headlights afraid to make a change (or do anything), the winning team doing actually nothing all game?

Just terrible terrible football all round. I was against it before the game but that ‘advert’ for football has made me rethink whether that deserves a spot in the champions league.

Just wow.
Moses

MORE ON SPURS BEATING MAN UTD FROM F365:
👉 16 Conclusions on Spurs winning the Europa League: Amorim sack, Postecoglou vindication, terrible Manchester United
👉 Rio Ferdinand blames £25m Man Utd star for Europa League final defeat to Tottenham
👉 Ten Europa League final players who should be axed in Man Utd, Spurs rebuilds
👉 Amorim offers to quit ‘without conversation or compensation’ if Man Utd want new manager

Finals are usually bad
Lots of complaints about the quality of the final last night. For me Clive it was an average final. My forty years of watching finals has taught me to have low expectations of finals no matter who is playing.

Advertisers and governing bodies like us to think that we are watching “Best of the Best” for valour and honour but so many just descend into 2 teams not wanting to lose and one of them gets over the line.

As my kids would say “finals are just a bit mid” unless you have a dog in the race where you’ll excuse anything as long as you win.

Why don’t they take the winning photos and presentation to the winners end though?
Paul “it wasn’t terrible” Rhodes

Year of the birds
With this year’s trophy winners so far all being emblematically associated with birds (Liverpool Liver Birds, Newcastle Magpies, Crystal Palace Eagles, Tottenham Hotspur Cockerel) , perhaps Chelsea should quickly associate themselves with some avian species before the Conference League Final.

Vulture perhaps?
Carrion Crow?
Blue Tits, maybe?

Any other suggestions?
John L, West Ham (nothing in brackets)