Southgate has gone; can Lee Carsley bring on the England ‘chaos’ era?

Gareth Southgate has gone from England and the fans now want change; would Lee Carsley bring on the ‘chaos’ that would suit this squad?

Send your mails on all subjects but mostly England and Southgate to theeditor@football365.com

 

Really Gareth?
Southgate still trolling the fanbase by calling them the best in the world.

Everyone knows that’s bullshit.
Finlay x

 

…God, even his resignation statement is tedious…
@rubym83 (no one mentioning Steve Cooper -U17s World Cup winning manager as a replacement?)

(He has just taken the Leicester job so no – Ed)

 

Bring on the England chaos era
As the autopsy of the Euro 2024 final continues, a number of different cause of death hypothesises have been offered: starting Harry Kane, Declan Rice playing poorly, or simply being too pragmatic.

Whether tactics or personnel are to blame, for most, all roads lead to Gareth Southgate. Given that he has resigned, perhaps the man himself agrees, or maybe, he just needs a break.

Despite being the most successful national team manager since Sir Alf Ramsey, it appears the majority of the fan base believe that Southgate standing down is the right call. Fair enough, really.

England now have a squad which, on paper at least, is capable of holding their own against the best nations in the world. Except, that has not been the reality.

At each of the four international tournaments Southgate was in charge for, England have lost to the first truly quality opponent they have faced.

That is not to discredit the achievements of the manager, who transformed England’s fortunes significantly during his tenure, it is just fact.

However, perhaps, Southgate is not to blame.

Against Croatia in 2018, Young, Lingard and Henderson (unsurprisingly) lost the midfield battle to Modric, Rakitic and Brozovic.

Three years later, against Italy, it was a similar story as Rice and Phillips ceded control to Jorginho, Barella and Verratti.

At the next World Cup, the pace was dictated by Tchouameni, Rabiot and Griezmann, opposed to Henderson, Rice and Bellingham.

On Sunday, Mainoo and Rice were largely anonymous as Fabian, Olmo and, first, Rodri, then, Zubimendi ran the show.

This inability to control the tempo of a game has plagued England for generations now.

English youth systems are producing more technically proficient players, but they are predominantly 10s, opposed to 6s or 8s.

In time, perhaps Adam Wharton or Kobbie Mainoo can develop into that sort of player, but history tells us they likely won’t.

Until England possess a midfield which can dominate the game, the best nations in the world will continue to beat them; whether Southgate had continued or not.

What has become abundantly clear during Southgate’s reign is that sitting back in a low-block and allowing more technically gifted players the time and space to pull the strings simply does not work.

Perhaps Eddie Howe, Graham Potter or whoever takes over, should try a different approach: chaos.

This squad proved in Germany that they are capable of great moments, a trait they share with Carlo Ancelotti’s Real Madrid.

While England do not have a Kroos or Modric, they could employ similar tactic of putting 11 incredibly gifted players on the pitch, free the shackles and see what happens.

In the Champions League, Real are often involved in classic matches where they derail the opposition’s tactics by playing the game at a frenetic pace.

It seems to go ok for them.

England cannot change the players they have available, but the new manager can alter how they are utilised.

Bring on the chaos era.
John, Glasgow

READ: Potter, Howe and Klopp’s England starting line-ups: Kane and Pickford dropped with White recalled

 

Let’s go Boot Room
It was great to read Mikey’s take on England — and for the record I wholeheartedly agree. Southgate is a classic middle manager, lovely guy who the HR department absolutely adore, but is probably destined to stay in that sweet spot of the company ranks rather than rise any higher. And that’s fine!

I think England did incredibly well to reach another final and rather than do our usual ‘tear it all down and build me a scapegoat’ we could probably say actually we’re doing really well and if we continue on our current trajectory will win something pretty darn quick. Spain used to have a similar issue of being nearly men until 2008, I think. Talk to any non-english footie fan and they’ll tell you how well England did — we’re vice champions of Europe (again)- there are 22 other countries that would have traded place with us….

Gareth’s race is run, he’s been incredible, and now lets get in the U21 manager Carsley or something, lets get a whole Boot Room vibe going..
Dan, Walthamstow

 

Southgate should have gone three years ago…
England should have moved on from Southgate after Euro 2020. The final against Italy was a terrific example of Southgate’s utility as a coach. He got the perfect setup, early goal, set up for counter against two ageing center-backs and Jorginho. But, England just refused to counter and gave up after taking the lead. They were hoofing the ball as early as 30mins in. It didn’t change in 2nd half either. Two tournaments would have been well deserved for Southgate for bringing everyone together.

Instead, he overstayed by 2 tournaments and held back the best bunch England has produced in the last 20+ yrs.

Euro 2024 final needn’t have been Barca vs Manu 2009.

The fans should give him a warm send-off, but should also be aware of the reasons. Otherwise FA won’t get the next appointment right.
Madrid fan

 

Will new man be like the old man?
Hey Mike, Spain did indeed beat Germany and France on their way to winning the tournament and you ask if Nagelsman and Deschamps have taken their teams as far as they can.

Well Naglesman has just started so he’ll get a pass, but the French are indeed asking if Deschamps should go. I’ve just seen that Southgate has gone. It’s a pity as I reckon Ireland would have had a chance against his team in September.

Hopefully the new manager thinks like Gareth, plays t-rex arms in goals, doesn’t pick a left back and tries to shoehorn players in that don’t suit the system. Maybe Jude can continue his ongoing audition for a role in the Hollywood re-remake of The Invisible Man and Harry can keep up his non-winning streak.

Give it to Super Frankie.
Weldoninhio, BAC

 

Thank you Gareth; you have done a brilliant job
Well he’s gone, resigned like everyone wanted. Including myself. I wanted him to resign as he does not deserve the bitterness of part-time, armchair football managers with perfect hindsight. He has been an absolutely incredible ambassador for this country, a real role model of leadership and being a decent human being. He has handled almost all on and off pitch responsibilities with a humility, respect and professionalism that the media and supporters of England sorely lack.

The petulance, arrogance and self-importance of people in this country is truly astounding. So many people I speak to believe we have the god given right to win these tournaments, all our players are the bestest and it’s only the manager stopping us.

Firstly, this is nothing new. Almost every England manager has been accused of holding back a ‘golden generation’ or two. The others lost their jobs through silliness or FA politics. If you can’t see history repeating itself here I don’t know what to tell you.

Southgate changed the culture of the England squad completely. There were reports of players asking their agents if they actually had to play for England after the famous Iceland game. To turn it into an environment where players looked forward to international duty and saw it as an honour and responsibility again was a huge success.

I will agree on one thing. We DO have technically good players. There has been a massive revolution in coaching in the last 10-15 years at every level of the game. I watched my son’s U13’s team play this week on an 11 side pitch and, wow, can all those boys play. Fluid passing, great technique, superb movement of ALL of the players made it a great watch. Technically we are producing some amazing footballers all through the pyramid.

Jonny Nic tweeted (X’d?) an article from a few years ago regarding a conversation with someone who spends a lot of time with Premier League footballers. It amounts to something more societal in that these players are not very well educated. I know from personal experience that early on in their lives football dominates everything, all their time, all their effort. To the exclusion of their wider interests and education. This is either encouraged or at least ignored by academies and families.

Mentally, on average, our players are not as smart as their foreign counterparts leading to problems improvising and working out solutions on the pitch. This is not their fault nor is it a hindrance, clearly, on their ability to earn or contribute to society but it could be said that our propensity to crumble in the high stakes games against good opposition may have a mental component.

If we want an all-conquering side like the Spanish/Germans/French have been at various times then this needs to be our next focus. Sadly, our underfunded education system coupled with an almost Victorian approach to curriculum and general distrust of ‘clever’ people in the current cultural climate means this is unlikely to be a quick fix.

Lastly, football is chaos. A ball bouncing this way or that, crossing a line by 2mm or a random overhead kick can make or break your career (or the world’s perception of it). Let’s just say thank you to a fantastic person for all the memories and giving us hope again.
Funstar (Southgate for President) Andy

MORE ON GARETH SOUTHGATE’S RESIGNATION
👉 Predicting the next ten England debutants under Southgate replacement ahead of 2026 World Cup
👉 England star ‘lost it’ at Southgate during hidden second-half touchline exchange in Euro 2024 final
👉 England ‘not a happy camp’ after Gareth Southgate ‘deeply upset’ Man City star
👉 Southgate out, England starter must never play again, Kane abysmal, Rice poor in Euro 2024 final

 

Declan Rice > Rodri at defending
Since I’m inevitably going to get rinsed from this morning and the editor raises a fair question – Rodri is the more complete DM and at this point better player than Rice because he is a superior passer and tempo setter.

However Rice is the better tackler, blocker, interceptor and all round defensive player imo and has unreal physicality which I feel makes him the more dynamic dribbler, so I personally think I don’t stand corrected in saying the better combatative DM. Again, I feel this can be seen with your eyes and in numbers.

And because I’m ridiculously biased, I’m happier Arsenal have Rice than Rodri too.

But again, it’s a case of knowing what a player is and isn’t. Arsenal will/should find a Rodri-esque companion (could obviously not do much worse than go all in for his half time replacement Zubimendi) to offer the more rounded game and let Rice smash, crash and drive as he does best.
Tom (Southgate’s replacement will need to recognise the above, obviously, if he is to maximise Rice as Arsenal did last season) Walthamstow

 

It’s mostly Kane though…
I see Ben, West Sussex is taking the “Kane dropping deep like he always does all the time everywhere” to simply be a symptom of the problem not the actual cause; basically, he’s dropping deep because he’s not getting the ball rather than he’s not getting the ball in the box because the silly goose is never there.

He then rolls on to use this as a stick to beat the world class playmakers behind him. Huh… it’s certainly a new take. But no.

I’m not Saka’s biggest fan – the fawning adulation he gets while trying to be the new Robben gets my craw – but he was absolutely one of our best players this tournament. One of the few, admittedly, who knew his job and it was “do what you do at club level”, but he still delivered. The problem he suffered (ignoring the “Walker inability to pass” elephant) was that Kane was never in the box to receive the pass. In the end, his lovely goal was scored because he gave up after another fruitless 79 minutes of looking for his striker – and indeed having played at least 3 passes to where he should be – and took the shot himself. And he was able to do that *because* he was making the runs to the byline and crossing in.

He then rolls on to blame everyone else for Kane being gammon all tournament, citing their lack of assists… yeah, obviously, it helps if your striker is available to receive the pass no? No, apparently not. It was everyone else in the team at fault rather than the wandering shadow who scored two tap-ins and a penalty instead of the five or six he might have had if he had done his job. England’s best striker? Get stuffed. I’d rather have Shearer, Wright, Fowler or Cole.

And Mikey P, Cardiff, you nailed it. Pizza party anyone?
Badwolf

 

Why didn’t he use his squad?
I had a listen to Gareth’s interview with I think it was John Murray on 606 after the Spain defeat where he blamed fatigue and players not being at their peak.

We know the preferred midfield of Rice, Saka, Bellingham, Foden + he threw in Trent, Gallagher and then Mainoo, and the lone striker of Sir Harold had all had long seasons.

He did bring off Harry in just about every game cos quite frankly he looked miles off the pace, did not rotate Rice or Bellengham, dragged Saka and Foden for tactical reasons mid game.

What I can’t fathom is the squad selection and lack of use or trust.

Let’s have a look – brackets denote where they are in the pecking order.

Left wing – (1) Foden, (2) Gordon and (3) Eze. Gordon and Eze not used or trusted for longer than it takes to boil the kettle. I bet Rashford or Grealish would have been given more minutes out there once he figured out Foden needed bringing inside.

Right wing – (1) Saka, (2) Palmer, (3) Bowen. Why take Bowen for a few minutes in a group stage game, not trusted when it counted.

Centre Mid – (1, 2,3 in no order) Rice Bellingham Trent. Until it was (4) Gallagher, then (5) Mainoo, (6) Wharton. No point taking Wharton he was never going to play him.

Defence – you play your back 3 or 4 and tend not to change it tactically, you just make sure you have sufficient cover for injury or suspension which he did at RB and CB.

Only issue here was taking Luke Shaw and no other specialty left back. Massive kick in the swingers to any left back playing topflight football who thought they’d be in with a shout.

All in all I’m left quite in the “what if” camp here.

He blames fatigue but doesn’t really use what is a very strong squad. Nobody would argue taking off our starting 11 and sending on their replacements is a downgrade as it is for any team, the point is to what extent?

Well as far as England are concerned my opinion is we have probably the lowest drop in quality of any squad at that Euros (apart from maybe France who’s squad was also stacked). Man for man our squad was littered with quality, and that includes Bowen, Eze, Gorden our 3rd choice wingers for example so why not trust them, why stick with a front 4 or 5 that was clearly not firing.

I guess you can’t drop your captain and all time leading scorer even if he looks Sunday league.

John asked Kane in his interview about his fitness and he dodged the question.

Everyone saw Watkins was more mobile and would have been able to trigger a press leading us to be higher up the pitch.

When you have Harry not pressing and packing the midfield, they all naturally retreat and that was the overall tactic that screwed us over eventually.

Also – anyone notice the theme music for the Euro’s was The Never Ending Story……go watch it!
Gibbo (MUFC – down under)

 

Former England international Alan Hudson writes…
In all of my twenty-odd years experiences of playing at Chelsea, Stoke City, Arsenal, Seattle Sounders and for the national side l can count on one hand such a thing as “fine margins”…

This only comes into play when you have absolutely battered the opposition and you walk away wondering – how and why?

At Chelsea in 1971 when we were holders of the European Cup Winners’ Cup l felt with the experience of the previous year we would certainly retain the trophy.

It was my third season after winning both the FA Cup and this European trophy and the previous season l missed out on arguably the greatest World Cup since my entering the world – I was 21.

Missing Mexico ’70 was a double devastation for me after missing the FA Cup final with a dreadful ankle injury.

Hence, I found myself carrying this injury into the Chelsea record books by winning the first FA Cup and European trophy in their history.

There were no fine margins over that period although we were 1-0 in a fifth round replay at Burnley with 15 minutes left, that was after throwing a two goal lead away in the last ten minutes at the Bridge. No sweat!

In Europe Atvidaberg visited from Sweden as we prepared to retain our impressive European adventure, an adventure which begun by Dave Sexton throwing us all together 18 months prior. We lost on an away goal which could and should have been an avalanche of goals.

Even so, my well struck volley and a missed John Hollins penalty should have got rid of these Swedes pretending to be contenders?

I was the “kid” and that meant l had to work on my long distance runs so that Charlie Cooke and Peter Osgood could grab the plaudits of King and Prince of Stamford Bridge!

I didn’t mind because in nine months l had the made Alf Ramsey World Cup squad to retain another trophy – The Jules Rimet Trophy! These were the days coaches or managers couldn’t have your four best players sitting next to you on the bench.

Fast forward 50 Years: Those “suits” meaning today’s leader Gareth Southgate has absolutely no idea of his best players and where to play them even if he did?

My last podcast with the brilliant Sir Matt Tissier, as he’s called on the south coast, touched on why Harry Kane, the best centre-forward on the planet, should be left out for Ivan Toney and Ollie Watkins.

It was the easiest thing to see as Harry turned up looking jaded after that last nine months had taken its toll and left him not the Kane who was more than Abel to bring his Spurs form to the international table.

Fine margins had nothing to do with England’s failure to go ahead and not only stay there but add to their tally, and don’t be fooled a 90 minute stroll against a Dutch team living on the past of the likes of Johan, the best player l ever faced in Europe and the NASL, Van Basten and arguably Chelsea greatest overseas signing Ruud Gullit.

AET and penalties might be “fine margins” the kind of margins hoped upon by the also-rans.

At a time we lost Terry Venables in the lead-up to these finals, to think Gareth learned nothing from El Tel after his 1996 gathering when his “fine margin” meant having Gascoigne, Shearer and Sheringham not sitting next to him on the bench.

My good friend El Tel, Tenners, TV or whatever you would like to call him knew of “fine margins” but never messed with them and you only have to ask those three players behind “football coming home” which it did without the trophy, but given the time that Southgate has been given there would have been no such talk of such a thing?

Let’s hope Gareth takes those fine margins to somewhere we don’t have to watch, and the only consolation for the likes of yours truly was l could sit at home and switch over my TV rather than sit and suffer among sixty, seventy, eighty thousand fans.

That was some fine margin!
Alan Hudson

MORE ON GARETH SOUTHGATE’S RESIGNATION
👉 Predicting the next ten England debutants under Southgate replacement ahead of 2026 World Cup
👉 England star ‘lost it’ at Southgate during hidden second-half touchline exchange in Euro 2024 final
👉 England ‘not a happy camp’ after Gareth Southgate ‘deeply upset’ Man City star
👉 Southgate out, England starter must never play again, Kane abysmal, Rice poor in Euro 2024 final