Ten Hag sack? Manchester United need to ‘take the f***ing hit’
Should Erik ten Hag pay the price for Manchester United failure? The first reactions are actually ‘no, let’s give him a chance’.
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Take the hit, Manchester United
It’s comparing apples to oranges but Simeone somehow got more support at Atletico after finishing bottom of their Champions League group last season.
Players generally underperformed, their most expensive signing (allegedly) undermined the manager and was generally a bad egg and most importantly they couldn’t play Griezmann for a full game due to some weird transfer dealings with Barcelona.
They are flying in the UCL and La Liga now. Not the brutish team of the mid-to-late 2010s, but a free-flowing attacking unit spearheaded by players who I assume would die for the manager.
Over the past decade, United have always opted to twist rather than stick, to take the easy route and replace the manager and attempt to spend their way into the top 4. Please not this time.
Take the hit. You’re the team with the highest running transfer bill, you can’t outspend reality anymore, FFP (or PSR as it is officially termed) will do you in.
This time carry out the clear-out you so gleefully inform the press about, back the manager through proper scouting and stop encouraging/allowing him so much bandwidth regarding every target.
A proper squad audit would reveal to even the most casual of observers that nearly every player is overvalued and overpaid. You have to take the hit this time and build again. Don’t sign superstars, target young, energetic players like Hojlund (yes, he hasn’t scored a bucketload but the lad runs his lungs out each game) who seem to give a toss about the club and their contribution on a matchday and in training.
Just see what lies on the other side of the malaise. Stop trying to change it all in individual transfer windows. Take the f***ing hit.
Emmanuel, Abuja
READ: Ten Hag on the brink as meek Man Utd fail to even attempt unlikely Champions League escape act
…As a United fan this season, it’s been..interesting lurching from crisis to crisis each week. While I believe it’s inarguable that United’s failings are simply highlighted more than any other club, there are undeniably a lot of failings to point at. As many have said, the true ‘rotting from the top’ is the Glazers – whose dithering, non-sport-related decision making and general apathy pervade the entire place. But we can’t change that, we can change ETH. So.
In terms of pure results, this season is obviously not going well enough, we’ve basically been a bit naff since March of this year. But how much of that is down to him? He’s spent 400m I hear you all say. Yes, but the numbers cannot get on the field and play football. As I’ve tried to argue before, Pep bought 15 first team players in his first two season at City. 15! That’s the kind of investment he had behind him.
United’s sheer ineptitude (see above Glazers comment) means, by my count, ETH has brought in Antony, Mount, Onana, Malacia, Martinez and Hojland who he clearly wanted, and was ‘given’ Casemiro, who he didn’t, but obviously didn’t complain either. This season, four of those players have basically not played. (Mount, Malacia, Martinez and Casemiro). Antony missed 2 months. So before I hear the 400m screams, basically only Onana (more to come) and Hojland have significant minutes this season. The teams he is putting out are basically a keeper away from Ole’s teams. So I give him that.
At the back, 3 of the best defensive players from last season have been absent (Shaw/Case/Martinez). At the front, United are having to start Martial. A player so bad he was loaned out and couldn’t even be good enough to get an offer. And an expensive but completely raw 20 year old. And that’s it. The entirety of ETH’s options. That’s the Glazers at work. So again, I give ETH that.
The flip side: United are out of Europe because of Onana. One could make a strong argument for a training cone that would have cost fewer goals in this group, it’s been a seriers of performances that make me question his betting history. And ETH chose him. But, on paper, he looked great, and DDG had to go.
Further, he starts McTominay. Every match. Who is a ‘central midfielder’ that doesn’t pass, doesn’t tackle and doesn’t progress the ball. And so United’s ‘donut’ formation is exposed, constantly. And you and I can see it, but ETH refuses to change, despite 12 losses. That’s unforgiveable imo, and if any one thing should cost him his job, it should be that.
And then there’s the comparison issue: United have no identity on the pitch, other teams do. Why aren’t United’s not-injured players not improving, showing some coherence? That’s the other reason to get rid.
Personally, I find myself thinking no new manager is going to do much better playing Ole’s team, a few years on. If ETH gets back the spine of his team and United continue to look this aimless, he obviously has to go. But with the available players – is anyone really going to do better? Martial? McTominay? Maguire? This Rashford? I doubt it!
Ryan, Bermuda
…I only saw the last 15 so can’t judge on the game but watching Sky Sports newspaper review as I get home and one of the back pages says man utd are rock bottom. Really?
I’m not here to say we are amazing but we are very much not rock bottom. If Bayern had tried (again, didn’t watch but can assume they didn’t) we’d have lost by more. What would be the point of us staying in Europe? Stay in the champions league and lose the next round. Go into the Europa league and we lose to the first organised team we meet, probably in the next round.
This is the time to sort everything out and for ten hag to prove he’s worth the job. Cut your losses with anyone who isn’t worth it and play these promising youngsters. We have nothing to lose.
I would say put a lot of these players on the transfer list publicly but is the transfer list a thing? You never hear about it.
NT, Glasgow
Man Utd for the title?
We played a lot better tonight defensively but Bayern didn’t get out of 3rd gear, and we didn’t do enough going forward. The fact that we had to bring on Pellistri and the Cannibal to try to win the game says it all about the lack of squad depth.
In general, it was a poor showing in the CL. We threw away loads of points from winning positions and were too naive/open/accident-prone in all but tonight’s game. The damage had already been done thought and we didn’t deserve to go through. Disappointed we couldn’t get 3rd spot but, on the plus side, at least football can only ruin my weekends now and not my full week.
Speaking of positives, there are some believe it or not. Top scorers in the group and we played nice football at times. The lack of European football will give us time to get things going in the league, and help with our injury situation. Hojlund needs another striker brought in to allow him to develop without so much pressure to deliver, he has shown he can score goals in the CL and now needs to do it in the PL.
So, all in all it’s been a disappointing European campaign, and was a reminder that we have a hell of a way to go before we can consider ourselves part of the European elite again. But with all that time to prepare now, who is going to rule us out of a title charge?
Garey Vance, MUFC
We’ve been here before
Football’s pretty kneejerk at the moment. Last week we all thought man Utd were brilliant against Chelsea turning a big bold proverbial corner, only for a quick fast fwd to clarify it wasn’t Utd’s brilliance so much as Chelsea being utterly, laughably abysmal (funnier still: the Poch postgame assessment of new signings required).
Then Spurs turned their own Big Bold Corner in defeat of a Newcastle side several measures more depleted than themselves, whom no doubt had a beadier eye on the midwk visit of Milan. But no, top kneejerking confirmed Spurs were flying high, to such an extent F365 pulled something akin to their own ‘Chief LFC reporter’ kind of move and made use of four (4 !!!) separate entries in their winners & losers column to celebrate Spurs’ lofty ascent after one positive result in six.
Tbf I myself had written in kneejerking about the beautiful pragmatism of David moyes in the hammers’ 2-1 spurs victory, only for Fulham to flip that script almost immediately. By this logic Bournemouth will be relegated come May (and Ipswich begin next term in league one)
Anyway I’ve now reached a strange sort of footballing deja vu in hopes of ten Hag being at the wheel of his big red bus as longgg as possible come hell or high water, roof leaks or raw chickens
Eric, Los Angeles CA (Leroy sane very disappointing but ze germans still get it done… but we don’t even get a potential mtg w/ Utd in the Europa league– a real shame, that)
Sweet dreams, Man Utd
Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when the name of Man United’s stadium wasn’t meant to be taken literally. Unlike today. In those days, the home fans would routinely raise the (now very leaky) roof with chants of “Attack! Attack! Attack!”. I know, weird right? Nonetheless, fond memories for Red Devil supporters, I’m sure.
But, in a strange way, I envy them. They can now relax and enjoy, not only their Christmas holidays, but the rest of the season safe in the knowledge that they won’t be relegated. Instead, they can sit back in their local London, Essex, Kent, and Irish pubs and watch the big boys fight it out for the remaining silverware.
Lovely.
Mark (Shhh! Yes, I Know. Sir Jim will make it all magically better. Now go to sleep. Sweet dreams of old Red Nose and the class of 31 years ago. Nighty-night). MCFC.
p.s. Whomever created the official City animated Christmas message is nothing less than a genius. Genius!
What are Bayern doing?
I’m a little confused, doesn’t take much. Arsenal have qualified, have a dead rubber and field a second strength side.
All day I’ve been thinking the media are talking rubbish about Kane. Surely he won’t even travel let alone play. Bayern have a bigger lead than Arsenal. Then I saw the team sheet, it’s a pretty strong if not first choice team. What do the Germans know that we don’t?
Asking for a friend.
Rob, Gravesend
…Ah, I get it now. It was for shits and giggles. That famous German sense of humour.
No more European football for united.
Rob, Gravesend
Chelsea could have bought a team full of Declan Rices
I really liked the 12 days vs 31 years analogy for 1 million vs 1 billion quid in the article about Boehly’s spending madness at Chelsea. Considering the Arsenal angle in the article, I would like to throw in this one: 1 billion pounds is almost 10 Declan Rices. So bar the goalkeeper, an entire first team worth of Declan Rices. I think that nicely illustrates the magnitude of the f*ck-up.
András, Swedish Gooner
When you realise that Arsenal aren’t on the telly…
So, there are three games at 2pm on Sunday. Only one is televised. Hey, Sky, don’t call your overpriced broadcasting “Super Sunday” if you’re going to be miserly about it. Oh, and what’s the excuse this time, the “two o’clock blackout”?! Amazon Prime does it better. Once again the UK based fan is being taken for a ride. You can be subscribed to Prime, Sky, TNT, and still need to fork out for a VPN and another broadcasting subscription to watch your team’s games. I don’t need anyone to explain the free market to me. I just want to express the complete piss-take I feel it is. This is why piracy is so successful.
Simon, Norf London Gooner
(Pretty sure the ‘excuse’ is that they only pay for so many live games – Ed)
16 Conclusions on the Premier League weekend
1) Crystal Palace were hard done by, Liverpool didn’t deserve to win that and their karma from the Tottenham game helped them turn the tides and get across the winning line.
2) Man Utd are the joke that is no longer funny. Losing 0-3 at home to Bournemouth on the back of building momentum from the Chelsea win is absolutely unforgivable. It seems the current roster are lacking in basic professionalism. You’d think that with Paul “Virus” Pogba and his pal Jesse Lingard gone, standards for professionalism would improve, but no. The rot has even reached players like Rashford. Rotten attitude is going to do the squad in no matter how many managers get replaced.
3) I rate Onana as a player, but Man Utd should never have let De Gea go this season. It would have been sensible to keep De Gea for another 1-2 years while he battles Onana for a starting spot. For all your (this site’s) gripes with two “first choice” goalkeepers, competition is important and can encourage improvement with the right attitude. The situation was ideal anyway, De Gea was getting old and Utd needed another good keeper when one wasn’t playing well.
4) Sancho’s non-impact on the team since he’s joined and his subsequent negative influence to the rest of the squad makes me think: the new generation of players needs older professionals to firmly smack their arses when they stray from the path.
5) I vaguely remember Gary Neville being hyped about Man Utd winning the title this year, I wonder how that’s going.
6) Chelsea are the joke that is still very much very very very funny. It turns out having a sh*tload of money to spend on players isn’t all that if you spend it without a brain.
7) Chelsea should never have let Tuchel go. Even without a striker, I’m betting Tuchel could still get goals out of this team. The problem isn’t the missing striker, but the team balance that Boehly ruined by poaching unsuitable players from their rival’s scouts. Having the best talents isn’t worth sh*t if you can’t figure out how they fit in your team.
8) Having spent that much money, I’m not surprised Chelsea are still missing a proven striker, but rather more surprised they ended up with Robert Sanchez in goal. They are probably relieved they didn’t go for David Raya but Sanchez is equally pants.
9) Shall this season be the end of the playmaking goalkeeper (sweeper keepers are not enough anymore, apparently)? I understand the need for modern goalies to be capable with their feet. However, their primary task should still be preventing goals in their net, either through penalty box domination, shot-stopping or their ability to organise a defense. Sanchez and Raya have none of the above.
10) On that note, Ramsdale might be the worse playmaker but he is more dominant in his box and has better shot-stopping abilities. Arteta should stop being an ostrich and start doing what he said he would do and drop Raya, hopefully so hard he cancels his loan agreement and goes back to Brentford.
11) Aston Villa are quietly brilliant and I am very happy for Unai Emery after his failure to thrive in his doomed stint at Arsenal. He was ridiculed a lot by the English press for having poor English and I hope some of those adults show some class and apologise to him now for being a dick. Emery was nothing but polite during his first stint with Arsenal, he didn’t deserve that.
12) Emi Martinez is exactly the type of keeper you need if you want to challenge for titles. That is, unless you have an Alisson or an Ederson.
13) Arsenal must be the unluckiest team this season. I wouldn’t say there is a conspiracy against them but referees just tend to call all the 50/50s against them all season, which is borderline ridiculous by now.
14) Speaking of referees, I wonder if they hold regular meetings / workshops to discuss and agree with each other on what kind of conclusions to draw for each situation they need to make a decision for, or whether there is a review panel to analyse bad calls and decide what should have been the right one. It doesn’t seem like they do it because I can forgive them for being f*cking pants all the time but being inconsistent all the time is not something a professional should be doing.
15) Angeball is Russian roulette isn’t it? Try it a few more times and you are bound to get a massive hit.
16) Son Heung-Min is a fantastic player and it’s good to see that he can finally shine on his own outside of Harry Kane and then James Maddison’s shadow. He deserves his own spotlight.
Stanley Hudson, Australia (Did Stewie Griffin die of joy when Villa beat Arsenal over the weekend?)
Brazilan Steve Bull
Just to let Stewie know that his mentality monsters Liverpool won a league with their Brazilian Steve Bull.
Robert Firmino -2019/20
P38
Goals 9.
Thank you.
Morgan (AFC)
Football and unity
Carolyn’s right.
Football’s maximum wage. All seater stadiums. Even the Premier League itself. They all exist due to football’s ability to speak with one voice. And they really need to when it comes to the silliest decisions by officials of the week.
And welcome back Carolyn. You’ve been missed.
Graham Simons, Gooner, Norf London
A meandering retort to Arsenal fans
A few things on the back of (mostly) Arsenal fans mails on refs/bad decisions etc…
Gunners fans themselves seem mixed on whether the Luiz/Jesus incident was a penalty, and a fair few have conceded that the Havertz decision was probably right, even if the rule is a little skew-whiff. This suggests the decisions in this game weren’t overly controversial or problematic. Odegaard’s shooting boots were.
On that Havertz decision. Well, both really… I’m not sure what people want. Would you want that Havertz goal to stand against your team? Be honest. I’ve spoke about the currency of a goal being too much before. The average goals per game last season was 2.85. Let’s do some horrific maths and say that’s roughly 1.4 per team then. A penalty xG (eugh!) is 0.76. Thus a penalty ‘guarantees’ a team half of their average goals a game. As noted, the calculations here are substantially wonky but the basic point remains. A penalty is therefore a potentially and fundamentally game changing opportunity to score. This is why they matter so much and get so (too?) much attention.
For me, it’s why the Palace one v Liverpool should never be awarded. Mateta has no chance to score and the contact was minimal, if that. Similar with the Luiz/Jesus one. It’s why you can’t let someone score via a hand, or having gained an advantage via their hand; purposeful or not, brushed or punched. Perversely, it’s why you shouldn’t give a penalty for Cash’s possible handball. Even more perversely, given the recent comments, it’s also why Arsenal got a penalty vs. Spurs for the Romero handball. It wasn’t meant, but it stopped a certain goal. The point here is that the potential outcome matters, and refs should 100% take this into account. We just don’t like it as it goes against this consistency we (don’t actually) want. Romero’s handball could be ignored anywhere else on the pitch. Even in the box, if the ball isn’t going in. Sometimes the act/intent matters more, sometimes the outcome does.
Rich, AFC challenged fans of other clubs to come up with game changing decisions their team has had vs. Arsenal in the last 18 months. I’ve had to ignore the arbitrary cut off point for my exceptionally petty example. Aubameyang scored an 84th minute free kick back in 2019 to win the game 3-2. It shouldn’t have stood as Arsenal players were interfering with the Villa wall. That Villa went 1-0 and 2-1 up and Arsenal went down to 10 men late in the 1st half is irrelevant. It was that decision only that cost Villa the game.
Obviously that’s tongue in cheek. It was Villa’s fault they lost that game. It was Arsenal’s fault they lost on Saturday, and at Newcastle. A few refereeing decisions rarely, if ever, hugely affect the result. Liverpool may have a legit gripe for the incident at Spurs this season of course. Even there, human error/miscommunication is understandable. Incompetent yes, but understandable. Then saying you have to follow the protocols, which are surely laminated (?), and not correcting the error is the ridiculous act. It’s the fascination with these ‘protocols’ that’s causing a lot of the problems. It feels like more importance and emphasis is placed on the ‘process’ than the actual decision.
There’s much more I could write on refereeing, though not as much as Wolves fans I imagine. They could produce a thesis. I’ve already rambled on too much though. Just trying to provide some perspective. Standards need improving, but they are hardly ever the reason your team loses.
Gary AVFC, Oxford (bizarrely agreeing with a fair chunk of Stewie G’s email this morning 😉)
A shorter retort to Arsenal fans
Arsenal fans have essentially turned into Chelsea fans from the Mourinho era. Their manager can spout all sorts of nonsense and they’ll just get fully behind it. All this rubbish about referee decisions going against them and that he’s unfairly picked on is straight out of the Mourinho playbook and Arsenal fans are just now lapping it up like some brainless zombies.
J
How is Jurgen Klopp any better?
I don’t understand how Klopp manages to maintain his nice guy image when he is as demonstrable a knob as Mourinho or Arteta. As I wrote in my last message, I wouldn’t change Arteta. He is Arsenal’s knob. And the media and other mailboxes rightly give him a shoeing when he steps out of line. But tell me, why is this not applied to Klopp?
Klopp has:
– Shouted at referees and referees assistants for years
– Questioned VAR, the decisions and potential conspiracy
– Leaves his technical area regularly
– Celebrates demonstrably last minute winners
– Says awful things about young players he DIDN’T end up signing (I think it is shameful of a manager to mock the plight of young players, regardless of cost or club)
– Is snappy and rude to journalists he doesn’t like
– Is an awful loser and moans when his side do
And yet, thanks to some really strong Rylan-esque veneers on his teeth and some very basic ho-ho-hoing like some German Father Christmas, he evades any criticism or censure. The guy, like all winners, is a prick.
John Matrix AFC