The greater achievement: Arsenal’s Invincibles or City’s Treble?

Go on, send your mails to theeditor@football365.com…

City the greatest?
Wholly agree with Graham Simons, the labelling of City as the Greatest English football team of all time is actually ridiculous.. Yes their domestic achievement should be recognised and applauded but get a grip Wayne. Arsenal’s “invincibles” season – better. Man United’s treble – better. Liverpool’s back-to-back European Cups – better. Nottingham Forest’s back-to-back European Cups – better.

I’m sure there are others I missed and I don’t doubt that City deserve their place amongst these elitist achievements but they’re nowhere near the top..

And if you want to harp on about the domestic treble it might be worth your while taking a trip up to Glasgow where you Scottish counterparts are on the verge of a domestic treble, for the THIRD year on the trot…
Dazza, Dublin, LFC

…Oh Wayne of the morning mailbox. Starting every paragraph with, “isn’t it funny” only to follow up with things that aren’t funny and then following up with a load of tosh that isn’t true.

Let’s handle the big bits first; the FFP charge isn’t based on something that happened five years ago. The false sponsorship deal with Etihad which is apparently only worth £8m not £60m is very much present day. The secret payment to Mancini might be what you’re referring to and I can only assume you missed Pep Guardiola getting very outraged but failing to deny whether he’d received anything similar. For your guide; people who haven’t engaged in financial wrongdoing tend to find it easier to deny in the first place. For an example of who Guardiola’s behaviour mimics do see Trump regarding his tax returns.

I like your attempt to aggressively push the agenda that this City is the best English football team of all time. The classic, “if you disagree then you’re stupid” really puts your intellectual credibility out there for all those who come to the mailbox for something a bit more stimulating than the average red top article but hey ho. Perhaps it is and will be judged so in the future but right now it’s harder to be sure in my opinion. Firstly Man Utd won a better treble, and Arsenal had a side that went unbeaten for 40+ league games.

The point you seem to have missed though is there’s currently a great difference between the means with which Liverpool or Man Utd dominated English football in their respective times. The key point is that it never involved alleged financial irregularity. FFP didn’t exist when both teams dominated but the owners weren’t really there to sustain losses approaching the hundreds of millions to buy success in the way the Abu Dhabi royal family is willing to. And if all the club is really worth to Etihad is £8m in sponsorship a year that’s a far more accurate reflection of where the club sits from a global fan base/general marketability perspective relative to the actual sponsorship deals that Man Utd and Liverpool really do have. So perhaps that’s why it’s a touch soulless or soul destroying; because actually nobody is particularly interested (and Pep demonstrated this by getting upset that after Man City won the league the lead story was about Pogba). At least when Liverpool or Man Utd dominated everyone had an opinion, for me personally I just feel a great swell of indifference for Man City and there’s no fun in that.
Minty, LFC

Jesse Lingard to boss United?
With talk over the last few days that Lampard will take over at Chelsea this summer, it made me wonder, apart from Vincent Kompany at City which current players do fellow mailboxers think would make excellent managers in the future?
Mikey, CFC (Another season, another new Chelsea manager it seems)

Why the Big Six should care about the play-off final
With fans of the rest of the Premier League’s big six still wondering how their side can possibly hope to catch Man City over the coming years after witnessing that performance at Wembley, I wonder how many have thought about the next big game at the FA’s HQ. Do they even care who gets promoted to the Premier League? Well as a Chelsea fan, I do. And if you think about it, fans of the other big six sides should too. Here’s why:

For Chelsea fans you could be happy for either JT or Lampard to win. But this means more to Lampard (and let’s face it, we should be happier for Lampard…). On a more selfish note, the way I see this transfer embargo playing out is an appeal that grants us a summer reprieve before an inevitable transfer ban next season. Whenever it hits, that’s when we will need to finally put faith in our loan army. In this dystopian future, I think there is a genuine chance that the club will trust the likes of Mason Mount and Fikayo Tomori if they have proven themselves on the Premier League stage. I would have them in the senior squad tomorrow, but realistically it’s very unlikely that Sarri will play them off the back of a promising season in the Championship. On that note, let’s consider the ludicrous situation where Chelsea’s performances deteriorate after selling Hazard this summer (don’t laugh, it could happen). Without a star player to paper over the cracks in the system, we could be on the lookout for a new manager next year. For Mount and Tomori, read Frank Lampard. Perhaps it’s too early in his career, but screw it, we’ve tried everything else. Oh, and I haven’t forgotten about Tammy Abraham on the other side, but if he didn’t star in the Premier League during his loan spell at Swansea, I can’t see him banging in the 15 goals that would turn Maria Granovskaia’s head.

It’s a similar situation for Liverpool with Harry Wilson. If I’m Jurgen Klopp (or if I’m not- I don’t need to be Jurgen Klopp to think this), I would need to see Wilson perform on a bigger stage before wanting to see him return to Liverpool, where he would likely stagnate with little game time. In another season he could be ready to genuinely compete for a starting place.

Spurs’ concerns are more immediate. I can’t see Jack Grealish hanging around for another season of Championship football. He’s ready to perform in this Spurs side should they go back in for him. Villa would have little choice but to let him go if they fail to achieve promotion.

Man United: I guess they would like to see whether Axel Tuanzebe can do it at this level before they give him the captain’s armband. A point for Villa I guess.

Arsenal: Nah I’ve got nothing for Arsenal. I’ve run out of steam here.

Go Derby!
Jeff, Some Place Far Away

Is football really broken?
I keep reading about how football is broken, about how football has lost its soul, how money is ruining everything and how blah, blah, blah fc are going to win everything forever.

The truth is football is ??? and opinions about football’s state or “health” will always be subjective. There is no doctor to diagnose footballs condition write it a prescription and tell it to lay off the vuvuzelas. Instead there is a huge variety of people who love and hate football, who’s relationship with football and what it means to them vary. Changes within football affect our footballing values which in turn make us think football is better or worse than it was before.

Football is constantly changing but our footballing values may not. Is there to much money in football? Is money ruining football? I don’t have a clue and neither do you. You have an opinion as do I but neither of us can prove them.

There have been complaints about money for all of footballing history I have read about. There was outrage at the first million pound footballer and there will be outrage at the first billion pound footballer. Some will never accept technology while overs will always crave more.

I also believe that football will always reflect society and will thus probably always be flawed but with enough positives to give you hope for the future (I am an optimist)!

The best bit for me is that we’re all right and all wrong and respectfully discussing and debating the rights and wrongs of football is something I love. I am eternally grateful to football 365 and it’s ilk for facilitating this ongoing debate which somehow keeps shocking and surprising me.
Balham Gooner

…In reply to John Nicholson and his ‘F*** ‘market forces’, fans are being screwed at every turn…’

I don’t claim to be a global travel expert. However, I would like those traveling to Madrid (from England) to watch the Champions League final to take advantage of the inefficiencies of the market.

For example, using the Indian travel website makemytrip dot com, I can see that the cheapest round-trip from London to Madrid is available for the equivalent of 330 quid. In fact, I was randomly conducting the same search last week, and one-way flights to Madrid from London (non-stop) were available for as cheap as (the equivalent of) 40 pounds.

Now, like I said, I am not a global travel expert. I have no idea whether residents of Liverpool and London, should they use the aforementioned website, will see similar rates. However, this is one of the inefficiencies of the market economy; an inefficiency which can be used to game it.

Why did I even bother making this search today (Monday)?

Because, you say: “Football is our culture, it is our art, it is our community, it is our self-identity, it is an important part of the people’s history. To treat it like it is nothing more or less than a tin of beans in a store is a coldhearted commodification of a community sport, that is offensive and more importantly, very destructive. It has ruined the joy for fans in the last week, it has made them angry and resentful and there is an economic and mental knock-on for the rest of us, in that. And all for what? A bit more money.”

Yeah, this is capitalism at its finest. But let us not forget how low air fares usually are. Let me take the example of my own country, India. The competition between the domestic airlines is such that Jet Airways, a premier airline which has been operating in the country for more than 20 years and was the market leader until not so long ago, shut down last month. This was because it did not have the funds to pay its employees or service its debt. Which was because of rising fuel prices and low air fares.

Undoubtedly, European airlines are different from their Indian counterparts. There are several factors involved, employee unions being one. But, from the little I managed to glean from painfully little amount of research, as many as six European airlines shut down in the 13 months leading to November 2018.

I have no affiliation with the airline industry. But I think it’s a bit much to be outraged on 2-3 days in a year when the prices are incredibly while not thanking them for the low fares during the rest of the year.

However, I do think that John gets it right in his closing paragraphs. The clubs should spend the 3-4 million buying the tickets and give it free of cost. Or for a nominal 10 pounds.

Or, like you say, the first team players can pitch in. The 20 senior players can each put up 170k, which amounts to 1-2 weeks worth of wages. Or the club and the players can split the bill between them.

The match ticket pricing is a scandal. The flights, not so much. But such is the reality of the capitalist society we live in. The same capitalist society which provides certain things at dirt cheap rates and makes certain items available such that we don’t even wonder whether we should be consuming them at all can also make us wonder why we are paying so much for something we love. It just so happens that its football, in this case. Or at least the opportunity to view it. Capitalism giveth and capitalism taketh away. Which is why one must game the market. Use foreign websites before the f****** get smart.
Siddharth (where-are-the-full-backs???)

…Just read John Nicholson’s article. A lot of emotion, frustration and a few red herrings. Rather than go point by point I’d simply ask John, when selling his house is it ‘first come first served’ or does he hold out for the best offer? Unfortunately the prices reflect scarcity (in part due to the large corporate allotment) and the excellence of the product. Hotels and Airlines are private companies and have a responsibility to their shareholders sell their product at maximum value. This is capitalism, warts and all. If this were refugees, it would be different, but it isn’t.
Rich

United we stand? 
Doesn’t surprise me to read that Dave the Man Utd fan would support another team if Saudi Arabia took over his club. I remember a fair few Man United fans leaving and establishing FC United because of the Glazers who for all their sins aren’t associated with executions, religious intolerance, slavery etc… So my question is would any Manc based Red Devils transfer their allegiance to FC United if an objectionable regime took over their club, and if not why not? Also have any Man City fans not on board with the Abi Dhabi United project chosen to follow another club? Might there one day be a supported created FC Citeh / AFC Manchester one day?
Rob da Shrimper (not a question I’m likely to face but would prob go watch Billericay Town)

…Reading Tim’s email yesterday stating he would stop supporting united if the Saudis took over got me thinking, exactly at what point does his moral fibre kick in.

A quick look at some of uniteds global partners shows deals with amongst others

Branco Guayaquil – Official Financial Services Affinity Partner of Manchester United for Ecuador

Danamon – official consumer banking partner Indonesia

Denizbank – official financial partner for Turkey

Emirates NBD – official financial services partner UAE

Icici bank – partner for India

Krungsi – banking partner for Thailand

You get the point. All these countries have less than a squeaky clean human rights record yet they have a partnership with united which puts money into uniteds commercial coffers. Including non other than the UAE whom according to nearly every football fan/politician in the last six months are the worst offenders since time began.

Does this register with your moral compass? Is it enough to make you take your replica shirt back (probably made in Vietnam by a child getting paid 30p per day) and stop watching……

Thought not
Paul

Finding the joy
I don’t often write in to the mailbox (and I get published even less), but I wanted to make an attempt to remind some of my fellow reds at least that football is about more than moral points scoring (the Suarez t shirts and dodgy dealings of Standard Chartered mean we don’t have much of an argument for that anyway).

Let me take you back to last summer, where despite knowing it probably wasn’t coming home we all spent a glorious few weeks singing that it was, enjoying every step of the ride and mostly just being grateful that the ride itself lasted for more than 4 matches.
It was England’s most successful tournament in my 27 years and we came home empty handed but it reminded me of exactly why I still bother watching every England match I can.

Perhaps I’m being naive having never seen us lift a league title but I’m not convinced it would’ve really altered my outlook on this season overall, other than persuading a few of the red shirts to stick around the pub after full time on that Sunday and enjoy a few more beers. When I look back on this season I will remember the glorious failure but not before I remember Origi’s late, hilarious derby winner that was the best birthday present I could’ve asked for, I’ll remember Bobby Firmino saunter through the Arsenal defence on his way to a hat-trick and for as long as I live I will remember the sheer spine tingling noise that I can say I was a part of when Mo Salah scored that absolute rocket against Chelsea, and that’s just the games I saw live!

We are (slight) favourites to soften the blow of 30 years without a title by bringing ol’ Big Ears back to Anfield but with only a handful of trophies up for grabs each season football is surely more about the journey than the destination, and City’s continued excellence (198 points over 2 seasons that for them is par only because they’ve normalised being so bloody good) has pushed my beloved reds into giving me the most memorable and enjoyable season I’ve had for a long time, where every save, every tackle and every goal felt like it truly meant something, because for the first time in a long time we looked like contenders. And that’ll do me just fine.
Manjo, LFC

Searching for the joy
Man City have just won the domestic treble. A feat never acheived before in England (as far as I’m aware. My knowledge of football history isn’t great). Where are all the giddy Citizens? In the first mailbox after the FA cup, there wasn’t a single City fan published. We haven’t heard from them about the joy of winning the cup and completing the treble. We haven’t heard stories of them crying at Wembley or hugging strangers in the pub. We’ve just heard them whining about Liverpool fans whining about their club and owners (nobody would care about City’s owners if they were 6th). If any other team had done what City have just done, you would have had an outpouring of joy and crowing in the mailbox and those fans would have deserved the opportunity for it. That City fans have greeted this amazing achievement with a shrug says it all really.
Kirk, MUFC

Ed’s gig on the side
Man United fans know all about bad seasons when we see them and it seems the Glazers put Ed Woodward in charge of Game of Thrones Season 8.
Parmjeet, Gravesend