‘We all think Man Utd are way more massive than they are’

Manchester United continue to dominate the Mailbox, but first let’s talk trophies. Send your mails to theeditor@football365.com

Indeed
Trophies are for losers.
Jon (14 years and counting), Lincoln

Fourth or a trophy? Well…
In reply to the recent article on the relative importance of domestic cup trophies vs European qualification, as an Arsenal supporter, I’ll state that, if forced to choose, I’d absolutely prefer to win the League Cup over finishing fourth this year, albeit with a few caveats.

Firstly, to win the League Cup, we’d have to beat both Liverpool and most likely Chelsea, teams who have over the last few years regularly dominated us. That would represent real improvement, and show that the manager’s “project” is heading in the right direction. Trophies build confidence, and to beat a few big teams along the way to a cup could go a long way to lessening the apparent inferiority complex we so often display against the better sides.

On the flip side, we could, if the other teams around us are poor enough, still just about qualify for CL without being able to beat a single one of the other notionally “top six” teams. That, to me, would not be much of a sign of the team and players improvement, and would most likely just result in us going out of Europe at the group stage or getting battered in the first knock out stages, as happened so many times in the past.

While the money might help the club, and involvement could boost chances of signing “top” players, merely making up the numbers in CL is not going to help give our team the mentality they need to push to be at the top of the PL table in a few years, which certainly has to be among the long term goals. I’ll take fourth if we can prove we belong there on our own merit, not merely because everyone else is shite, and that to me means consistently taking points off those around and above us in the table, something we rarely do anymore.
Rob, AFC

Success is cyclical; deal with it
It’s interesting to see the way certain clubs are seen at the current time. Spurs are, well Spursy, Arsenal are rubbish, United are playing the worst they have ever played while Chelsea and City are powerhouses who no team wants to play away from home.

If you look at a list of the top 10 English sides by trophy count, all of those teams are in it – but that doesn’t tell the full story. The reality is that all teams go through periods of great success and periods of the doldrums – even the two most successful clubs United and Liverpool.

In the past Arsenal were always a tough away game but came into their own after Wenger arrived for their most successful period. City, apart from a short spell a long time ago, are fifth on the list due to their successes from the mid 2000s on. Spurs, well, Spurs have only had a few, intermittent, spells of success and it had mostly been about playing nice football. Always looking to buy that talented midfielder like Hoddle or Gazza but without wrapping a team around then to win. So perhaps they are the same today.

To see United fans talking about the current team as the ‘worst United side in history’ clearly didn’t watch them pre-Fergie and post-Busby. Lots of dross played then. Liverpool went through a 30 year spell not winning the league, with the assumption that they have always been a top team, when in reality prior to Shankley bringing their first modern successes, had large gaps of infrequent success prior.

The point is that our view of teams is filtered by what we see today and predominately today. No team has been consistently successful.

We have seen some teams, Leeds, Forest, Villa, Derby have some success in the 70’s/80’s and not much since then but still get labelled as a big club – to the chagrin of nouveaux successful clubs. But they are, with big followings, only to be disrupted by the money in the modern game outstripping all before it.

Point is that no team is guaranteed success based on past deeds. Sure, having big money backing is a boost but not a guarantee. Any team can go into a downturn. How well will City fare post Guardiola? Can Liverpool, post Klopp? Will Newcastle’s new money accelerate them to success and up from 9th all time. Can Chelsea sustain the more fragmented success by constantly swapping our managers?

Who knows.

For those interested, the top 10 by trophies (albeit some arguments over what is a trophy): United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Villa, Everton (yes, really), Newcastle, Forest.
Paul McDevitt

Simeone? No chance
Diego Simeone will never manage United. Maybe Inter, maybe Lazio, the former is more ready to go than the latter, you could make a case for both in that Someone has already proved his credentials so doesn’t need to do it again so can get the Inter job, but the guy clearly loves a challenge so it would be a thrill to bring Lazio from their scattered positioning around the top 10 regularly to a settled top of the table berth. I say these clubs because Simeone himself is built on personal loyalty, he’s a romantic in that regard. He’s a very special deal coach, if you didn’t make a home for him during his playing career, then you don’t get to entice him as a coach, tough titties.

I would bet Diego is extremely smug about United’s issues, all because he had a rivalry that one time with their poster boy. The guy is the only manager who seemingly is lengthening his playing career in the dugout. Everything about him screams that he is still playing with the same attitude he always had. He has said he would only manage teams that he played for as well. Yeah you hear a lot of stuff like that in football about “never going to happen” and then one day Rafa Benitez is at Everton. The only reason I could see Simeone ever being in the premiership is literally just to be a dick to Klopp, Man Utd would be the perfect fit for that admittedly, and don’t put it past him, that could really happen as long as Klopp is still Premier league associated, but that’s the only reason he would go to England, to be as big a dick as possible to Jurgen Klopp. That’s the kind of manager he is. It’s like he’s still a player but he has an even bigger will as a manager to shithouse the way he did on the pitch.

I imagine if he came to United, he’d knock on their door, quite literally have written “I WANT KLOPP” in his own smeared blood, and demand all memorium to David Beckham is put into a black hole because he lives to dominate personal rivalries. I don’t think he is so petty to do all that just for personal rivalries, he’d still choose Inter or Lazio our of “sanity”, but that’s what will need to happen for him to be United boss, him deciding to just be fully mental about his ambitions.

I was going to leave it there, but I had a thought about the Man United manager role. Sir Alex did something unthinkable not just in English football but in all football, he made another Bayern Munich /Juventus type superclub. United had fleeting success in the 50s and 60s, but they were never at the standard of these two behemoths, clubs in fairly competitive leagues who stood up as the de facto best of them. In the 90s and for the 00s and the beginning of the 10s, Man Utd were the Bayern or Juve of English football. That’s how remarkable he was, he was obsessed about winning European trophies, you can sense he was miffed to only get 2 (not counting the cup winners cup), he was a real visionary. He was the only person at the club who had that vision though. United didn’t want to dominate Europe when they hired him, they just wanted to be more respectable and win some stuff hopefully. They landed on that rarity of getting a guy in who was actually more ambitious than they were.

Man United aren’t the Juve or Bayern of this country, they never were, except one guy decided that he wanted them to be. While he was there that’s what they performed as, but they never were and definitely haven’t been since. Man United are an identity confused club, they think they’re the Bayern or Juve of this country, or think they should be. Nope. They weren’t when Ferguson arrived and as soon as he left they have lost whatever association they had as standard bearers. It was like a 30 year fever dream were United got to fantasise of being standard bearers but they never ever were. They had their successes but they never ruled English football with an iron fist in their entire history.

We all think Man Utd are way more massive than they really are. They are not the Bayern Munich or Juve they seemed to be, they shouldn’t get so much attention.

If those clubs stutter, it’s not one man who fixes everything, it’s a whole dynasty of people behind the scenes who never let the manager become bigger than the clubs, the successes of these clubs come from the visionaries within. Man Utd had this one amazing visionary who could rival entire dynasties by himself. They’re either going to need to find that again and keep finding it or go a different direction because they aren’t naturally at the levels of these domestic super performers. Current Man Utd is as far away from their happiest times as Napoli are from the teams of the late 80s/early 90s. Think about how far that really is…
Dave (Simeone would be perfect for them, but he is too different a cat to go for perfect), Dublin

Too many square pegs at Manchester United
Rangnick will identify and agree the right appointment at the end of the season. It almost certainly won’t be Simeone. Likely will be Ten Hag. Simeone is unlikeable as a manager, almost as much as he was as a player. And not just personality but the kind of football he plays.

Some fans will love the idea of him, ofc. But that’s the same people who wanted Jose to be given more time to destroy players. They are the plastics who will then complain about the style of football. Or even worse, won’t because as long as their product (that’s all it is, it’s something they’ve purchased, not a side they support) is winning, that’s all that matters.

The problem up front is that too many players are out of position. Greenwood is no winger, Rashford has done well enough there over the last few years (better stats than Bruno in the last year) but is a forward not a winger. Cavani offers little goal threat at the moment. Ronaldo has to be carried too much in terms of running and now isn’t even looking a goal threat. Bruno isn’t a wide player either and pretty wasteful. United had chances to score natural attacking goals and failed against Villa because confidence isn’t shot. Rashford and especially Greenwood hit a ball as well as anyone, their current malaise is really concerning. It’s not their ability.

The issue is that the players who are being asked to create chances are those who should be on the end of them, and central. When Greenwood or Rashford look in-field, they can’t find anyone suitable to pass to, at least not in a dangerous area. All they can do is cut in on their preferred foot and try and fashion a shooting chance, which is easy enough to stop. There’s no decent movement in front of them. And now they’re getting frustrated and jaded. You can see that from the increasingly desperate shots. Same with Bruno and his frankly laughable recent shooting efforts.

If the manager wants to stick with the players, the formation has to change. If the formation is staying, tough calls are needed.

My preference would be to put Rashford and Greenwood up front for the rest of the season; give them the chance to re-adapt to their roles, ahead of a new season. Put one of Lingard and Elanga on the wings as they will run all day, and switch up between Bruno and VdB to drop more centrally to create chances . Give up on Fred, who simply just doesn’t have enough to boss or open a midfield and get a suitable partner in for McTominay.

The squad has some absolute gems that are being at best wasted and at worst damaged. The manager is caught between a rock and a hard place, because he has a vision but the players don’t suit it. Something needs to give, until he (or rather, the board) can make the signings we need.
Badwolf

In defence of Rashford
Now I know on current form Marcus Rashford should be dropped. The Rashford that is on the pitch right now is not the same as he was playing 1 year and a half ago. When he plays, he still looks like he is injured and is worried about getting hurt again. It feels that he just wants to score a worldie to shut everyone up, which you just can’t make happen, no matter how talented or supported you are. Ultimately, he is responsible for the choices he makes on the pitch, but you have to feel for him.

Rashford made his debut in 2016 under Van Gaal, whose focus is more about the attack than defence. This helped Rashford burst on the scene, scoring on his debut in the Europa League and the Premier League and Manchester Derby, all at 18. At the end of the season, Rashford lost Van Gaal and got Jose Mourinho. Mourinho’s style is focused on the defence, which was not great for Rashford. But he still performed and was able to grow. With Zlatan upfront with him, he learned from one of the best.

After Mourinho, United got Ole. As a United fan, Ole will always be respected for his playing career, but managerial-wise, he is one of the worst managers I’ve seen. His ‘Ole Ball’ was – hope not to concede and score a late one. This really hindered Rashford’s growth as a player. The stats may look good, but the player who played against Villa in the Fa Cup is a less promising version of the Rashford we had in 2018.

I’m trying to make the point that I clearly see that Rashford is on a terrible run of form at the moment and is not warranted game time for the lack of quality when playing. Still, in his short time as a professional footballer, you have to realise that he is already on to his 5th manager at only 24 years old. With each manager changing styles and never helping settle Rashford to a position and help progress his growth as a player. I still believe there is a good player in Rashford. However, whether with United or not, the only consistent manager he has had is Southgate for England, where he is barely a starter. So you have to understand why currently he’s in poor form, not because he isn’t talented enough but because no one has helped him progress into the player he can be.
Max Of Whitegate

No Lingard please
I’m starting to see more and more rumors about Spurs signing Jesse Lingard on a free. I’ve never thought he was great, and on top of that he’s always rubbed me the wrong way for whatever reason.

I know what you’re all thinking, this guy hates everybody.

The reason I’m writing again is, have you ever heard rumors that your club was going to sign a player you extremely disliked? Obviously, I would want him to do well and help the team if the transfer is ultimately realized. The strange thing is, this incident seems to have been repeated over and over again in my personal experience the last decade or so. The first names that come to mind are Adebayor (twice), Joe Hart, Gallas, Mourinho… Not people I wanted to rock up at WHL.

All I’m saying is it is a very strange situation to find yourself in when you’ve hated someone’s guts for years and all of the sudden your club signs them. Does this happen often to others? Or is it because of the way Daniel Levy does business? Who would be the absolute nadir for your club to sign?
Pete, Cape Cod USA
(I think the real reason I’d be so upset is I’ve been telling my United friend for years how shit he is)

Money for old ropey anger
I love fantv, I watch TAW and RedmenTV all the time (youtube) as I like to hear people discuss my team, hear different opinions and I enjoy pre and post game discussions between their presenters and people from other clubs.

I also enjoy watching fans of other clubs melt down when their team is losing or following a defeat, “Where’s the card?” is almost a catchphrase on one channel (tbf other presenters do ridicule this individual for it) and there is often a sense of humour displayed in times of “crisis” (EFCTV being masters at this).

I couldn’t understand or accept the Simon Jordan stance regarding AFTV and his belief that they were happy to see Arsenal struggle as it was good for revenue, until last night.

Watching a certain channel, I was dumbfounded by a realisation that there are over 1.25 million subscribers paying £4.99 per month to basically listen to the opinions of ONE man! I have nothing against this individual, he is articulate/compassionate/forthright and obviously loves his football club, yet…

He doesn’t attend the matches and is generating over £75 million a year!!!!!! It’s insane, that’s more than Messi and Ronaldo put together, and the worse they perform, the more people will subscribe to enable them to vent their anger (I can do that for free on here!).

I just can’t get my head around it.
Howard (raging at the moon) Jones

Oh when the Saints…
Basking in the glory of Southampton’s biggest league win in donkey’s years, there’s many things that are worth commenting on, but I’m going to focus on young Armando Broja. Simply put, the lad’s a bit special. Just 20 years old, he plays with the strength, positioning and directness of a classic centre forward and a mature one at that. The big drawback is that he’s only on loan for a year, but it’s nice to dream that the new ownership might put together an appealing offer to Chelsea. In the meantime, I’m just enjoying what he brings to each game he plays.
Remy the Saint

Watching Salah get shackled
Just wanted to ask.. did any of you take the time to watch the biggest match at AFCON so far as The Pharaohs of Egypt were rendered toothless by the gallant Super Eagles?

Anyway, forgive my elated spirit as a Nigerian but that was a really impressive performance. The last 20 minutes not so much, but Salah!!! No team had managed to cage Salah so well before today. He touched the ball only 14 times in the first half and two of those were kick offs. Nantes’ Moses Simon terrorised them, Ndidi dominated the midfield in usual fashion and Rangers’ Aribo and Iheanacho were good to say the least. I can’t believe I am saying it but Nigeria look the team to beat so far.

Anyway, back to Salah. Go watch that game if you haven’t watched it yet then go and watch Salah in practically any Liverpool game so far this term. The former situation represents Rashford as he is now and the latter, represents what Rashford can be with a system and style that suits the player that he is.

As an aside, this is the Queiroz that Ferdinand (or who ever our wise pundit was), said would have been the most sensible interim appointment for United. Watch the match and answer, all you people still living in 2008.
Sa’ad