Man City challenge Arsenal in most successful clubs ever list
Man Utd might be second on the list of most successful English clubs but the kids are not impressed, while Man City put pressure on Arsenal.
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England’s most successful clubs
Having listened to a few football things of late on the radio (I live abroad) re England’s biggest clubs, Man Utd still relevant, London’s biggest club etc, I had some time on my hands the other day to compile a factual list. Well, trophy wise of course.
5 points for European Cup/CL, 4 for the league, 3 for FA Cup and all other European trophies, 2 for League Cup and 1 for European Super Cup/World Club (sorry Arteta, no points for charity or community shields).
I mean, I guess we all know the top 3 but it’s pretty interesting to see the Top 15 :
Liverpool 168
Man Utd 158
Arsenal 104
Man City 87
Chelsea 83
Aston Villa 65
Everton 54
Tottenham 49
Newcastle 39
Blackburn 32
Sunderland 30
Nottingham Forest 29
Wolves 28
Sheff Wed 27
Leeds 23
Two or three more big seasons for Man City and they’ll go third.
Oh and fans wise. Having lived abroad for the best part of a decade, I think Man Utd fans would be rather surprised to see how much young/teen fans in SEAsia support City, Chelsea, Barcelona, Liverpool and Real Madrid over Utd.
Then again, anyone under the age of 20 have only known Man Utd to be pants.
Thanks,
Adam Halliday, Saigon, Villa Fan (6th!)
Why transfer fees are irrelevant
A lot said this week about whether Wirtz is worth the £100m Liverpool are paying. The answer is nobody knows yet.
Ever since Sky created skybet and started blasting transfer drama into our brains to increase betting action I feel like people have lost the ability to talk about the issue sensibly. Now people have to win or lose at transfers.
Whatever money is spent is largely irrelevant to fans. That’s a beancounter issue. What’s relevant to fans is :
1. Does this player bring a skillset that we currently lack?
2. Is he better than what we already have?
If the answer is yes then he’s worth it, regardless of price. If Rayan Cherki ends up doing skills on the edge of the pitch and losing the ball when City are 1-0 (like he often did at Lyon) he will feel like wasted money even though it was a small fee. If Wirtz scores the winner in a Champions League final it will feel worth it. That’s just how it works.
If the player does the job they were brought in to do he’s worth it. Allison for example was brought in for an enormous price because we hadn’t had a keeper who can stop one on ones and distribute the ball well in a decade, Allison did that and much more so nobody ever talks about the price.
If a player doesn’t do the job they’re brought in to do, they’re not worth it. Liverpool don’t have too many of these anymore but Nunez and Naby Keita are two that spring to mind who weren’t worth it.
And it largely doesn’t matter what the price was. If Nunez cost £1 he still didn’t score enough goals so he would still not be worth it. If Van Dijk cost £200m he still led the team to many trophies and did all the things we needed him to do, so he would still be worth it.
Is any United fan really gonna tell me that if Antony cost a quid they believe he would be a good players who brings something to the team it doesn’t already have? If Jack Grealish didn’t cost £100m would he be a better player for City?
Lee
MAILS: Liverpool ‘cosplaying Real Madrid’ on Wirtz as Man City laugh with Cherki
Declan Rice: Overrated
I wanted to share some opinions on Declan Rice. First of all, he seems like a great bloke, and a footballer you’d definitely want to have a pint with. However he isn’t good enough to play DM for England or Arsenal.
Some Arsenal fans have this weird obsession with comparing their players with Rodri. I was told Partey was better than Rodri after the former joined Arsenal in 2020 (he wasn’t). And then they repeated the trick when announcing that Rice is better than Rodri after Arsenal signed him in 2023. Partey was now, no longer worthy of comparison strangely. And I bet that they will say that Zubimendi is better than Rodri if he signs for Arsenal as planned.
The weirdest bit is that Arteta doesn’t play Rice at DM. He played Partey or Jorginho instead, and has bought Zubimendi, as he knows Rice isn’t good enough to play DM at a team that wants to compete at the highest level. So it makes no sense to compare Rice to Rodri, when Rice is a box to box number 8 now, that compliments his physical strengths.
If we assume that Tuchel will end up playing 4-3-3, as most of the English players he can pick play in that formation I find it weird how high Rice is rated in the England Ladder.
When Rice played DM for England at the Euros, the back 4 ended up playing the ball left and right in a horseshoe shape as Rice wasn’t showing for the ball. He pretty much man marked the opposition and took himself out of the game. He wasn’t on the half turn, he didn’t get into space quick enough when pressed and his first touch isn’t good enough. As a result England couldn’t transition from defence to midfield when pressed. What England need is a proper DM for that role. We tried Angel Gomes and I still have hopes for Wharton, but we need someone who can play that role properly.
Then England need two other midfielders and this is where Rice should play. But if everyone was fit and on form, and with a proper DM, would Rice be in the team ahead of all but one of Bellingham, Palmer, Foden, Eze, Rogers or Mainoo? Bellingham, when not being stroppy, provides the physicality that Rice does, so there should be a space for a more creative player next to him. Personally, I’d choose Palmer, so I’m surprised that Rice is number 3 on the ladder.
TL;DR – Rice seems like a nice bloke, but isn’t a DM, shouldn’t be compared to Rodri, and shouldn’t play DM for England, and has a battle IMO to keep his England place in a midfield 3 if everyone is fit.
Andy D. Manchester. MCFC
Just look at their faces…
All this talk about which trophies are considered ‘worth’ winning and which aren’t is utterly pointless. All you have to do is look at the players when they win whatever trophy it is and that will tell you whether it’s ‘worth’ it or not. FA Cup, Coca-Cola Cup, Charity Shield, Super Cup…..the players that win those trophies quite clearly think they are worth winning.
When was the last time a club captain lifted the FA Cup with a bored expression on his face? Who was the last player to just walk off into the dressing and forego lifting the Carabao? Remember last season’s Community Shield when all the fans left before the trophy awards? No, nor me weirdly.
The players care about the trophies they win. They may want to win some more than others but they want to win everything they are in. To the players, every trophy matters and every trophy counts. When the players stop caring about a trophy, then we can dismiss it. Until then, winning an actual trophy – whatever it may be – is a GOOD THING.
Glad I could put an end to this pointless and entirely subjective debate.
Clive, LFC (still giggling childishly at F365 describing Utd vs Spurs as ‘moveable object meets stoppable force’)
Having no truck with Johnny
Old soppy bollocks & resident in-house bleeding heart liberal, Johnny Nic has missed the point again. No one’s amazed that Trent can speak Spanish (it is after all one of the easier languages to learn – not if you’re Gareth Bale tho). No Johnny, what people were shocked by was it was so clean & without flaws that it clearly meant that he’d been learning it for quite some time – let’s say a lot longer than when Real first approached Liverpool back in January. Which means his decision to join Real has probably been taken long time ago & he could’ve even met privately with people from the club to discuss a potential move, whilst firmly a contracted Liverpool player.
I think that will be the real kicker for Liverpool fans – it’s not like he’s had his head turned in January by Real’s interest but that he’s probably been sounded out by people at Madrid several years ago & he’s just allowed his contract to run down.
Up the Wahs.
Peter Stone
…Johnny Nic spent about 8 paragraphs making the point that it shouldn’t be surprising a footballer speaking a foreign language.
He is almost seeing what’s surprising about it. See it isn’t surprising when a football player can speak a second language. Nobody is surprised at that.
However it is surprising seeing and English or American person speaking a second language because that really isn’t so common. I’d go a little further and say that in Trent’s case the consternation stems from him being Scouse.
Those of us whose first language is English tend to be a little bit….entitled and carry an expectation that people will speak English because it’s the sort of international language. I’ve travelled most of the world and I’ve English, Americans and australians all in foreign countries just using English with little to no attempt at the local language. This isn’t just my opinion either, the locals I speak to on my travels are always surprised when I can speak their language (Portuguese, Spanish, Filipino and Vietnamese in case you’re curious) and they’re surprised because English speaking people don’t usually make the effort.
And I confess in my teenage school years I did not bother with french because had the naive opinion that “everywhere speaks English anyway.”
I currently reside in Brasil and local faces light up when they learn I’m not a brasileiro and speak it well. In fact the only places where people don’t seem to appreciate that effort is Paris (where they have actual disdain if you attempt french and would rather you use English) and in the UK where people swat someone attempt at English aside like it’s a simple thing.
So perhaps Johnny , the reason everyone is surprised at Trents Spanish is because the English aren’t known for their linguistic skills…Joey Barton speaking french is how it often turns out.
Lee
The X Factor
To Hartley MCFC and his XI.
Chapeau.
H