Guardiola is ‘an absolute hag’ who ‘was the loudest puppet’ Man City ‘had in their pocket’

Pep Guardiola, Joe Hart, Ferran Soriano and Rodri all catch strays in the ongoing evisceration of Manchester City and their ‘absurd’ reaction.

Send your thoughts to theeditor@football365.com.

The reply to the many responses
Goodness me that boiled some p*ss didn’t it.

In the interests of the greater good, I’ll try to be conciliatory. I’ll concede it’s really difficult for anyone (myself included) to be ruthlessly objective on an issue where emotions and loyalty play such an important part in forming an opinion. That goes for you too. None of us can help that.

I do genuinely believe the FFP rules were introduced to stop ‘sugar daddy’ ownership (Platini’s own phrase) and I do genuinely believe that what city did was to spend an equivalent amount of money to the established elite and do a much better job. Indeed if it wasn’t for the sham £1bn of deals they would be exemplary owners and a model for other clubs to follow. (It’s actually true in large part)

But in the interest of balance I also accept that if the appeal fails and we are found guilty then a punishment will need to be levied – perhaps not the extinction of the club and all its descendants, but maybe enough points to relegate us and a fine that stings along with a transfer ban. We will lose our stars, and who could blame them, and that part of the punishment shouldn’t be overlooked. For what it’s worth that’s what I think the likely outcome will actually be. And, as city fans, we will live with that and still support the team. Been there, done that.

People calling for years of accrued punishments and inter-club legal processes are really on rocky ground I think. Football doesn’t need that kind of downward spiral and I think the game as a whole might suffer as a result. Of course I would say that, but I also think the league might be in that frame of mind too.

What I won’t do is feel the level of guilt everyone seems to think city fans should feel and nor will I engage in some mental cleansing to leave a spotless mind.  It’s not a choice thing, you either feel it or you don’t and some city fans I know do feel that they can no longer enjoy what happened. Fair enough

Now, who genuinely believes the current system of entrenched privilege for legacy clubs is genuinely fair?  I’ll be Henry Fonda and go first, I vote no, who’s with me?
S Manchester. (To the guy who said city fans taunting Steven Gerrard for his slip was somehow symptomatic of a class issue- give yer head a wobble son). 

Meh
Just thought you might be interested to hear the views of a fan who doesn’t sign off with City UTD  AFC or LFC.

I’ve quite enjoyed watching the premier league over the last decade or two. Best players in the world playing some amazing football. Best league in the world to watch on TV.  I’m a West Brom fan living overseas now. so no dog in this fight.

But guys, it’s just football remember. Most important of the least important things in life notwithstanding. Personally I’d like to see City survive this and I’ll be honest, I’ve enjoyed watching them take the old guard to task over the years.

I know many of you have a lot invested in this emotionally and I get how euphoric you must be right now. I just feel it would be a mistake to assume the rest of football fandom looks on with anything more than a disinterested shrug.
Mark- WBA (now living in Berlin where this has barely raised an eyebrow) 

Enjoying the Cityzen reaction
The Man City meltdown is fantastic fun to watch. So many facets to enjoy, the obvious one being the howling from fans who seem wholly unable to accept the notion that cheating like fuck for a decade tarnishes and perhaps invalidates the success that was achieved off the back of that. Tell us it doesn’t change anything all you like, lads. We’re not buying it. The cartel argument is magnificent horse sh*t too.

But over the past few days, I’ve found the variety of reaction coming from people connected to the club in a professional sense to be more interesting, because you can draw some additional conclusions on the personalities involved. My tuppenceworth on those sounding off is as follows:

– Pep Guardiola: An absolute hag of a man who knew full well what was going on, and was the loudest puppet ADUG had in their pocket when the heat was coming on. After publicly defending them for years, he’s too far down that rabbit hole and can’t be seen to change tack for fear of looking even more absurd. The fact he’s sending messages of support to the fan base with blue heart emotes, having extricated himself from the impending shit show at exactly the right time, is nauseating.

– Roberto Mancini: Hung them out deliciously by flat out admitting he was remunerated from 2 different sources, before shrugging his shoulders and saying “it’s not my problem”. Probably knew plenty about the fishy business, happy to throw a little grenade into the flames from a safe distance.

– Micah Richards: He may be a tough watch as a pundit, but he has always seemed to be a decent type who still retains working-class values and sensibilities. Appears genuinely filled with dismay as he sees the writing appear on the walls, which seems like the right tone for someone who cares about the club to strike.

– Joe Hart: The other end of the spectrum. Christ almighty. His “oh captain, my captain” rallying cry in response to Al-Mubarak’s statement was just bizarre. He also suggested the charges were “speculation”, meaning he can’t tell the difference between accusations and charges. He’s either petrified that there might be some consequence to breaking ranks, or genuinely does live in the echo chamber he suggested he does. It’s a horrible look either way, and means he adds less than nothing to any discourse.

– David Bernstein: Probably the most salient viewpoint I’ve heard expressed, coming as it did from a man who literally ran the club previously and understands how football works at those levels. He came across as being disgusted and appalled, and raised the prospect of criminal fraud proceedings extending beyond the Premier League’s sanctions.

That rogues’ gallery is of course just the tip of the iceberg. When it came to the wider reaction, I enjoyed Roy Keane’s “medals, meet bin” comment which was 100% on brand but not without validity. Mark Chapman’s mounting realisation of just how messy things might get down the line was also amusing.

Long may the dissection of this melodrama continue, it’s made this the best international break I can remember.As an aside, I noticed that Penfold Infantino’s latest scumbag sound bites got relegated to content sidebars as a result – with a bit of luck, his misdemeanours will get their day in the sun before long too.
Keith Reilly

Listening and reading the comments by players, ex-players, ex-managers and even the Man City management is funny, disheartening, annoying and incredulous, all at the same time.

From the stoicism of ex-players (Danny Murphy) saying no player would want to win the title by having City stripped of theirs – even though it meant great players never got to claim a title due to City cheating. Let alone the fans of those clubs – who paid good money to follow their team only to find out they were beaten to glory by cheats.

Joe Hart exclaims that City must be innocent because he loved how Khaldoon spoke to him, and he trusts they were innocent. Even so, the record shows several members of the City management team lied at the commission. And I’m not sure whether it’s worse or not, but Pat Nevin nods and agrees sagely that no one wants to win titles by having the team that cheated stripped of those titles. Er, as a fan of one of the clubs that cheated, I do.

Or Soriano claiming they had ‘irrefutable’ evidence of their innocence. Really. We’re that gullible to think that the guy going to jail says, “Judge, look, we saved all the irrefutable evidence for the appeal…”

Rodri claiming we won it all mano-a-mano.

Why do these people try to make out that ‘well, this all happened so long ago and we lost mano-a-mano, so oh darn it, shucks, but oh well. It happens.’ It was cheating on a massive, long-term scale.

And not that it was an avalanche of cheating.

Winning one title meant they could cheat a bit more on sponsorships the next year. They could build a squad where the second team was as good as most first teams. Players would choose City over other teams, at a lower price (Haaland, for example), because the player wanted to win trophies and where better than financially-success-doped City. They could have players who would walk into most clubs’ first teams, sit on the bench for half a year, allowing City to win against teams whose midfield or defensive line had been decimated throughout the season. Oh, and it started an arms race as other teams tried to keep up, driving player and ticket prices higher. (If there was a surprise, it was that the 3 ‘B’s (seemingly well-run clubs) voted against PSR, while City voted for it. I wonder would they now vote against it after reading the commission’s decision.)

City went from a club with a relatively small fan base and commensurate commercial revenues (27% of Liverpool’s, 34% of Chelsea’s and 38% of Arsenal’s in 2008/9) to 156% of Liverpool, 138% of Chelsea and 220% of Arsenal to the leader. Only Utd kept pace, but with much, much lower increases. In other words, even against teams that had been successful or had a much larger fan base and following, Man City magically increased commercial revenues.

While the Premier League can’t do anything about FA Cups or League Cups, they can strip City of all their Premier League titles. Particularly where City won by goal difference or a very small points difference.

Of course, this story is going to go around and around until the final punishment is meted out.

In the meantime, can those players, ex-players, pundits, etc, just shut up pontificating unless its along the lines of Keane (I know) saying those players should throw their medals in the trash. Or Simon Jordan (I know again) taking Danny Murphy to task, saying the players would have an escape clause if relegated, with Simon pointing out the idiocy of a player being bought at such high prices, earning significant pay, going to City to win trophies, and asking for a relegation escape clause. That’s the kind of realism we need now. Weird how it has to come from pundits who are generally wankers – and not those of senior managers purring nice words.
Paul McDevitt

Prime fool
So this hardly seems hypothetical, but as the Prime Minister and the totally unrelated sponsor of loads of things in the Premier League and elsewhere have weighed in – how are fans of the other clubs in British football supposed to react when these external pressures tell, and City get away with it?

We now have a situation with the written equivalent of a smoking gun (please just read the internal emails, they are literally describing the cheating), an independent committee agreed upon by both parties rendering a clear, very guilty verdict and yet, it’s 50/50 if in a few month’s time any ramifications are dealt to Manchester City.

Not because they didn’t cheat for a decade, not because they weren’t caught red-handed, not because they’re not guilty – but because they’re so rich the rules don’t apply, and external forces can make the cheating go away.

When that happens I’d encourage all of us to stop watching the ‘league’. Maybe Serie A is on the ups.
Ryan, Bermuda (when they said City would ruin football, I didn’t think it was actually possible)

Well, oh dear.

Pep (ok, he’s still on their payroll) speaks up in full support of Man City with his tweet(?) x(?) on X.

Then to top it off, I read this:

‘Well, I would be really concerned to lose them. They’ve been such a huge partner in the building of modern Manchester.

Obviously, the building of Manchester City into the global force that it is.

‘I can’t intervene more in the process. It would be wrong for me to do that. It would be wrong, I think, to jump to a conclusion before having really studied all of the detail, but obviously it’s ongoing, and because it’s still contested by Manchester City, then I think it’s right that I don’t say much more!”

That’s our current prime minister. “Can’t intervene more in the process.” MORE he says! So the prime minister HAS intervened!

Trump intervenes in the World Cup and now burnham intervenes in the city scandal.

Powerful people are backing Man City and I can’t get my head around the candidness. Backing sportswashing. Backing fraud. Backing cheating.

It’s the politics involved that makes me think they will get away with this, when they should be made an example of.

Who doesn’t love international break, eh?

Can’t we just focus on the England ladder now/again, please lads?
Ash

City should be throttled, not strangled
Dear Mc,

First, there is no retrial here. They’re not going to do the whole two year process again. City get to have another 3 person panel look over what has already been given in evidence “irrefutable evidence” dedux, you might say. Unless someone has been a demonstrable idiot, that’s destined to fail.

Second, the joy of many opposition fans needed to be tempered by the fact that a falling tide lowers all boats, just as the opposite is true. Lynching City will not bring back titles but intercine warfare might end up in the boat sinking, with repercussions for all our times.

Third, given this entire thing came about because one brave/stupid individual provided emails to Der Speigel, there must be much closer monitoring (a PFL presence even at each and every club?) of each situation so this kind of thing is headed of much (read years) before it hits the headlines.

Fourth: punishment. The breaches were over many years, so based on the punishment fits the crime it should be multi year in my opinion. 40 is the usual amount needed to survive? So their points deduction for this year is delayed until after the last game and then given to force them down. Yes I realize this creates a false economy for the rest of the league but it makes the point clear, and we’re in uncharted territory here.

Let me make this point clear: City absolutely cannot win the title this year. To have that happen makes a farce of the whole thing. I mean forever, that’s just mental. I understand “these players are innocent”… But how that looks? Unacceptable.

Given that sends them down (by definition) they would start with a 20 deduction every time the return to the PL, to be reduced over 2 to 3 years.

I would also impose a transfer ban on them the next  time they appear in the PL, probably open to arbitration later, given other factors.

The timing is the huge spends City made, relatively without build up, look deeply contrived now. As does Peps leaving but we’ll probably never know.

So to summarize, they pay immediately (this season) for past transgressions. They work to come back, knowing what awaits them. If (when) they get back their hands are tied. It doesn’t strangle City, merely a necessary throttling, because that is surely what’s called for, and necessary for the integrity of the league. And in that we all have a vested interest.
Dan, Phnom Penh, Cambodia, Wigan

A very interesting article today regarding Man City being found Guilty of 114 charges I have to agree with the majority of comments however I do believe that this has caused irreparable damage to the PL and football generally world wide , as such the club should be expelled from our leagues and state ownership barred from today onwards. A monetary fine won’t cut it it would be laughed at whatever the figure. So they have to go, of course there will be serious ramifications regarding legal actions and claims by many other clubs which in reality could amount to Billions.

People and pundits such as Joe Hart who have stated publicly that they believe Man City will prove their innocents should not be allowed to appear on TV  football programmes  in future as clearly their comments and opinions are not valid.

All in all this is a truly shameful situation of which an appeal will prove fruitless. In fact  I would insert a clause stating that should an appeal fail which it surely will then the punishment will be doubled for time wasting not to mention the costs involved .

In the interest of U.K. football and football in general this has to be dealt with quickly and severely never to be repeated.
Colin

Amigos

The more I think about it, the more I think City should be stripped of their titles and expelled from the English leagues structure until the poison is drawn. Change of ownership, subsequent litigations from other clubs dealt with and paid for and then the other teams get to vote on re-admittance (to League 2). If this doesn’t happen, every game of domestic football that they play will have, what any journalist with access to a half decent online thesaurus, may care to call ‘a febrile stench’ about it.

Points deductions, however hefty, are meaningless. If it means that they are relegated to another division with most of their boundless resources intact it would be grossly unfair on the other teams in that division. If it means that they get to simply exist in the Prem with absolutely no hope of being able to win it… well, that would actually be quite funny, but it would destroy the integrity of the league. No, hoik them out.

If they are not expelled I’d be happy to see the other 19 clubs refuse to play them and start again some other way. Sure it’d be a breach of contract with the EPL but city could then be invincibles every season without kicking a ball in their own league of one (nice bonus for them). Anything less than expulsion feels like a win for them while they continue to spit on the integrity of the league(s) and even now deny and dismiss the due process to which they have been, rightly, subjected. No, their larceny has had knock-on repercussions beyond the Premier League and the cups, every team in the structure must have been affected in some way.

Well, I expect the atmosphere at Anfield next month to be especially obnoxious, with any luck. I wonder how many neutrals watching that game will be neutrals watching that game. Can a few interim punishments be meted out before then?

Mario Balotelli to be in charge of laying out their kit and getting their subs ready.

City to wear a change strip of black and white stripes with Hamburglar-style eye mask and ankle bracelet (the electronic kind, not the sexy kind).

Donnarumma has to wear his boots on the wrong feet and cannot handle the ball, even for goal kicks.

and of course, the extra-special forfeit for big cheating bastards everywhere… Man City, by this time next week, you have to… kick Bishop Brennan up the arse.

Oh, and Culk the Younger. Correct. PGMOL next, but it won’t happen, not in a million years. Ho F*cking Hum!
Sebbo (non-neutral)

Dear Ed,

The Gentleman’s Agreement is to just strip the titles between these years, award the titles to the runner up teams and have Man City create a fund to pay off narrowly relegated teams in these years.  Anything more or less than this creates current headaches for the league and sport.

Best
Dan McG LFC

In all the speculation about potential punishments for Man City, I think I speak for all of us in hoping that any sanctions applied don’t have the unwanted side effect of saving Spurs from relegation.

None of us want that. I really think a Spurs relegation could unite this country. Its something we can all get behind.
Chris, NUFC

Are Newcastle the good guys?
One thing that had troubled me for a while was when Newcastle were taken over and we were watching them tool up and we thought uh-oh, here we go, City MkII. Then… well, not much. Some big spending sure, a trophy (!!!) but not the money that City seemed to be sloshing through. We all know why now of course, but it’s quite an achievement to be able to portray Saudi Arabia as… the good guys? Yikes, that is some cold hard context right there.
Joe (checks notes) Utd fan

Did they stop?
I struggle to understand how City unopposedly acquired a talent like Haaland for some 52m. Dortmund are not mugs as they sold Bellingham and Sancho for considerably more. Tottenham then paid a 300% mark up on Savio who barely played for City at all. Everyone wants their club to buy cheap and get a great price for the ones who don t work out but City seem to be in a class of their own in this capacity.
Ted Bythesea

So what happened to Man City’s commercial revenue after 2018…
rojapy

Don’t look back in anger
I’m a Liverpool fan, so of course my text threads with friends the last week have been consumed by how terrible and unfair Man City’s cheating is, discussing appropriate punishment, etc.

The unfortunate reality is that there’s no way to right Man City’s wrongs. They’ve completely distorted a 15+ year period of domestic and European football. Impose all the fines, point deductions, and penalties you want, but it will never give Liverpool fans the memories they should have had of winning a CL + PL double in 2019, a domestic treble in 2022, posting the highest PL points total ever in 2020, etc.
It will never give Stoke City fans the memory of winning a remarkable FA Cup in 2011. Sunderland fans will never get the memory of celebrating a League Cup in 2014.

And that’s just life. You can’t change the past. But instead of focusing on the ways we could punish City, what about focusing on ways we could try to give positive memories to the football fans and clubs that City has robbed?

So here’s an idea. Man City should be forced to foot the bill for a massive, lavish, weekend-long festival on the Isle of Wight. Fans of every team robbed of a trophy or a Champions League spot by City are invited. Players of all the teams robbed of a trophy are invited for retroactive trophy lifts, fireworks, and celebrations. Free booze (top shelf of course), free food. City players who “won” these sham trophies forced to work as waiters, walking around serving champagne to the fans they stole joy from. Plenty of live music and entertainment. As a grand finale, Oasis are forced to perform as the headline act, culminating in a poignant moment as the jolly, inebriated crowd sings Don’t Look Back in Anger and lets some of the wounds inflicted by City heal.
-Kris R, LFC, New York

Who City have actually screwed over the most
Dear Editor,

In the midst of all this fallout that we’re still only at the foothills of – I thought it was only fit and proper to write in and gently urge my fellow football fans to remember the real victim in all of this madness, and to ask the most important question of all…

Why didn’t City’s owners act properly and give Yaya Touré the birthday cake and party he deserved?

Beyond a disgrace. Throw the book at ’em.
Kentona, (Bring It On Down because while Some Might Say Whatever, there was Definitely Maybe a Masterplan, hatched Half The World Away, so Stop Crying Your Heart Out, it’s just time for them to Slide Away, D’You Know What I Mean?) Manchester