Man Utd: Lisandro Martinez is more ego-driven ‘Baker’ than ‘Butcher’

Lisandro Martinez is just looking after himself at Man Utd; he’s no Robin Hood-style martyr but is just eyeing Atletico Madrid.

We also have mails on Aston Villa, Man City and more. Send your views to theeditor@football365.com

Gwan the Villa
Piece of p*** this European football isn’t it?

Btw Jackson has already scored 3 times as many CL goals for Villa as Ollie Watkins. So that’s nice.
Neil Raines

…Not long back from Villa Park. That was rather enjoyable. Jackson was relentlessly brilliant. Everyone put in a shift to be fair.

Manzambi though… Oh you naughty young man. You’re going to have me smiling a lot I reckon. Bring on the big boys! Viking first mind. No offence.
Gary AVFC, Oxford (Happy birthday fella)

…After Villa’s biggest ever Champions League win I thought I would relive the match by reading what Football365 had to say about it.

Would it mention the turn around this Villa team have had after a fairly disastrous start to the season? Maybe how their premier signings, Manzambi and Jackson, have hit the ground sprinting? Or even how Villa looked to completely dominate their Turkish opposition who could have been a potential banana skin in their goal to qualify to the next stage and cement themselves in the upper echelons of Europe?

No.

The only article about the whole game was a Mason ‘charged with attempted rape, controlling and coercive behaviour and assault occasioning actual bodily harm’ Greenwood.

There was one paragraph in the whole article that wasn’t Greenwood themed.

That’s 94% of the whole article for those data nerds out there.

Wouldn’t have happened for any big 6 side who played in the Champions League.

Please do a little better in future. Match write up first, side quests second.
Sean, Belfast

PS – The Villa fans DID put in a great performance this evening and did us proud vs Mason.

Meanwhile…Man City
Oh-oh. Someone forgot to buy luxury holidays to Dubai for the continental refs. Heads are going to roll at the Etihad – possibly quite literally…
Tom K (F365 I dare you)

READ: Manchester City learn that with friends like process-respecting, UEFA-hating PSG, who needs enemies?

…Two teams from the same cloth.

One has a league that wants to stop cheating

The other that wants 3 teams in the Champions League every season.

Go figure!
Tony

We don’t know the scale of cheating
Many mailboxers are being overly cautious and using words like “alleged” when describing Man City’s crimes. But we’re not journalists, so let’s drop the hedging and be honest about just how bad the situation is.

Fifteen years ago, we all knew Man City were cheating. Today, we all know Man City didn’t suddenly stop cheating in 2018 – the numbers are probably way more shocking, leading to the summer splurge they seemingly undertook in anticipation of a transfer ban. The problem is, we only got the investigation because of hacked emails. Will the subsequent years ever be investigated?

All of which brings us to the stark reality: we can’t be certain that other clubs aren’t cooking their own books. The rules everyone agreed to are meaningless if there is no recourse even when it’s clear that shady deals are happening. One of the fears many fans have of Man City receiving a points deduction or relegation rather than expulsion is that the owners will pump more money into the club to get it back to the top, this time leaving no paper trail.

This is going to be a hard season to care about and I’m not sure those which follow will be any better.
Josh (Depressed fan(?)) Cape Town

Try the lower leagues
Andy H, Swansea – I doff my cap to you, sir. All the things you mention, but particularly in the last few weeks, Man City cheating, but even that in the shadow of ever-present, massively unfair FPP rules that advantage the entrenched “big 4” so they remain dominant forever and no one can ever catch them. What are we watching the Premier League for?

In the last year, I’ve been to Bradford City (2-2 highly entertaining match, with a goal from the halfway line and a back heel flick goal from the middle of the box), and Halifax Town (admittedly, 0-0 but with 90 seconds of pure 1970s Brazil, and I also met Batman and Lee Sharpe), and all full blooded, attacking football with risks and mistakes, none of these highly drilled, low-press, high-press, two banks of four players, tippy-tapping it around that you see for hours on end in the Premier League every week nowadays.

Try the lower leagues. A better day out, with all the banter and beers with your mates, cheaper tickets that are actually available to purchase at reasonable prices, and none of the cynicism of the Premier League.
Colin

A long way round to Man Utd
I hate football, trillionaire oil fascists, Infantino, Burnham, etc. but can’t be bothered to go over the same sh*t everyone is. Obviously Abu Dhabi is the worst thing to happen to football for every team and football in general, if you can’t see that with all the evidence, data and unrestricted usage of your eyes, then there is no helping you – 94% of English clubs are loss making and couldn’t survive 30 days you say? I think we need a bit more unfettered spending at the top so we can all enjoy some more wage & transfer inflation lol. Keep fighting the good fight against that evil Rouge Cartel. When the barrier to winning is becoming ‘must own authoritarian country with abundant exploitable resources & cheat’, then it’s obviously f***ed.

There aren’t 20 oil dictatorships that fit the bill, so who in the league misses out? How much more will Abu Dhabi cheat when they aren’t the richest? Would Abu Dhabi fans mind being mid-to-low table in the league on a consistent basis?

Probably not, that’s why they aren’t Robin Hooding their way through the league against the Cartel, they are just cheating everyone for their own selfish gain and hoped no one would notice.

Alas, leaving the moronic pro-argument for football proxied oil wars to one side, this humble mail isn’t about any of that, it’s a simple observation to sum up how uniquely sh*t United and their approach to squad building is.

Certainly in the Prem, United are the only team that;
– plays a 5’9 Centreback against a 6’3 Striker
– while simultaneously playing a 5’9 Striker against a 6’3 Centreback
Moses
(Football is dead but there will be some good future rivalries in the Aramco Premier league, Imagine the Yemeni Wanderers vs. Arabia Athletic – because of course Saudi will have multiple teams. What an atmosphere!)

Martinez the martyr? Not so much…
The Martinez interview was clearly very-eyebrow-raising. My take on it seems very different to the vast majority of fans’ and fan channels’ initial reactions that I’ve seen and heard so far.

Understandably incredibly frustrated, angry and out-of-patience fans are proclaiming him a martyr and a hero by “finally someone being brave enough to say what we’ve all been thinking.” I don’t disagree with a syllable of what he said – but all I can see is what seems to be very clear motive indeed – and an equally clear and I strongly suspect – pre-prepared agenda of throwing this precise grenade live on a broadcast in the precise ground of the precise team he wishes very much to join. He said more than once very calmly that he had to be careful….Then proceeds to be very much not remotely careful in almost-unprecedented fashion, bar what we saw from his horrible pal Romero, not long ago at Spurs.

I thought this long before the Wilcox-briefed Sky Sports piece claiming same this morning. He’s been linked to Atletico for a while, is as typical an Atletico player as could possibly be imagined and we all know they’ve long been akin to Argentina FC, too. Manager, players, style, dark arts, familiar and naturally highly-attractive Spanish climate, all of it.

This is a player who – because of 3 separate, serious, long-term injuries, has only played around 54% of United’s matches since signing in 2022. Also – and call me crazy for honing in on this minor detail – he’s “only” on a weekly salary of around £120k a week, when a good few of his colleagues (thankfully far fewer than several years ago), are on well over twice as much.

From what I gather, (as per Andy Mitten) though he’s supposedly well-liked within the club, he’s long been very vocal and quick to make his feelings known at Carrington when there’s something that he’s not pleased with. I was a huge fan of him for the first couple of years and he’s put in some big performances, but he’s been guilty of quite a few clangers, has proven – although unlucky with a couple of freakish injuries – his fitness can’t be trusted, has always lacked pace, and so far this season has been directly at fault for at least 3 goals and part of collective failures for plenty more. I’ve long-suspected that being a WC winner also triggered him to carry himself with a Billy Big Bollocks attitude too, for what it’s worth.

He’s always focusing on ego-led, man-to-man wrestling battles with – key here – bigger men – rather than focusing on the ball and the space first and foremost, resulting in horrendous goals like Solanke’s last Saturday and his OG/Timber’s goal at the Emirates last season, to give just two examples.

All in all, his cons outweigh his pros now considerably, and added to his Malvinas flag shenanigans at the World Cup, I personally want him gone ASAP. To pull that stunt when you play for an English club was pretty vile – as is that entire Argentinian squad’s attitude, which has been proven to anyone with eyes repeatedly. They see themselves as indefatigable warriors. All I see is a cavalvade of delicate, precious narcissistic fannies – many of whom seem to suffer from classic Napoleon complex. Martinez a prime example. Ego. Ego. Ego. Very little basic honour or respect. You know, like a true warrior-type ought to have. A code.

I would also like the Glazers and the Ineos Clownshow gone even quicker, but sadly that ain’t going to happen for the foreseeable. All this guy has done – for now – is set off a bomb, and he’ll soon get to flee the wreckage. Was everything he said true? Absolutely. Was it helpful? Not remotely, in the short term at least. Will it get him a 4/5 year deal at Atletico soon on at least £200k a week? Very possible/probable. That’s his sole motivation, as far as I can guess.

Who knows, I could very well be wrong and perhaps his words have lit a fuse that ignites the fanbase to go against the board and ownership with renewed vigour, and maybe even somehow force some actual improvements…

Forgive me though, if I don’t see Martinez’s actual motives as being the one who fights for the cause, though.

‘The Butcher’?

For me he’s more of the bulls****ing baker who’s also managed to fashion quite the ornate candlestick… and he can shove it right up his self-serving Malvinarse.

Yours bemused and beleaguredly,
Kentona, Manchester

Shock: Man Utd owners are a problem
Without a doubt the strangest part of this City response has been the fans that have pointed at the owners of Manchester United being allowed to eat the club from within as – honestly I’ve no idea – justification of their cheating? Regardless, between them and now good ole Licha, they’re back in the spotlight.

It’s this simple: what the Glazers were allowed to do was so bad that it is now banned. Every season United start with an albatross around its neck. That isn’t just the financial piece – where each year we spend around 30m which could otherwise be spent on footballing things but moreso the attitude. These are owners that don’t understand or care about football – but who also won’t just let the team be run by those that do. They remain involved, with veto power, holding up transfer decisions and worst of all: just infusing the club with a level of ineptitude you tend to associate with scions. Unjustifiable belief in non-existent abilities that they’ve never had to hone or even really use to get to their position.

As supporters, we’ve tried things. Largest protests in recent PL memory. Had a major match called off. But the bottom line is that the PL – despite realising its mistake and changing the rules – has left no mechanism for us to do anything.

Again – this is not a financial argument. United have spent more than all but 2 (cheating) teams over their tenure. But the rot starts at the top, and United is dead. It’s a zombie club that goes through the motions of being the institution it once was, but it will never again be with them around.
Ryan, Bermuda (and they’re not going anywhere)

…While it seems like a career limiting move, maybe on purpose, I think there’s more to take from what Martinez said in his post match rant.

Utd players have never spoken badly about their manager (I’m ignoring Ronaldo and Sancho who were spoilt kids as they were sent to the naughty corner), so maybe it was time a senior player actually pointed a finger elsewhere. It is quite a big thing to basically say the problem is the people upstairs who pay your salary and I think maybe the players are as sick of us fans of seeing the manager merry go round. It is obvious to all that the club is rotten to the core but still they continue trying to blame the figurehead of the manager and leave all the other rot to get worse. Do I think Carrick can get us out of this? No. But with all the rot, no manager will as proved by the calibre of those that have tried and failed before.

I hope this rant isn’t a once off brushed under the carpet and I hope it spreads but then again, I’ve actually given up all hope for my club. Until the Glazers and their debt are gone the club has no hope. We are now in a period where the only hope is a good result/performance every now and then and maybe once a season we beat the cheating mancs or the scousers.

Reality sucks,
Jon, Cape Town

Snowflakes? Really?
Ken Charlatan signed off with (Man Utd’s supporters are the biggest snowflakes of them all). I won’t lie, it had me biting like a hungry catfish. Ken, we’ve watched our club be slowly, irrevocably eaten alive from the inside out for the last 20 years. The parasites responsible turned us from one of the world’s greatest and most successful football clubs into a punchline. Maybe watching that happen to your club wouldn’t move you; if that’s the case, our relationship to football is very different. But snowflakes? With respect Ken, f*** off.
Ben, depressed again

A reply from Mailbox regular
Harold, I just get a bit sick of the sanctimony of some Liverpool fans in particular given their rap sheet, but they’re not alone on their pomposity re City. I was actually just responding to Aidan’s mail and subsequent BTL f***ery though.

That night hadn’t even crossed my mind to that point, but when I saw the standard lies I’ve repeatedly heard peddled by some of their lot about the night in question almost immediately in the comments in response to his mail, especially given the support they absolutely rightly receive over another incredibly tragic day every year, I replied. You are absolutely 100% bang on about this not being a subject for point scoring, which I know I wasn’t trying to do, and I strongly suspect Aidan wasn’t either. Just reminding some people to act like human beings where certain subjects are concerned.

Football at PL level, like the wider political climate and society in general is ridiculously tribal/polarised these days, and yes, my normal response is to poke this with sticks because laughing is better than crying. But I’m not having people going home in boxes trivialised by trolls, end of.

In another twist, I agree with you that everyone could do a whole lot better, but you have to remember that this place attracts some of the worst zealots for their respective clubs. The football fans I know in the real world are generally not myopic arseholes who have an answer for everything and live their fandom straight out of the MAGA playbook.

Re City, they generally go, ‘aye, they cheated, bet they’ll get the book thrown at them’, and then go about their business – all are supporters of PL teams, including Everton and Man U fans. In short, their self esteem is not wholly bound up in a gaggle of millionaires kicking a ball about in the obscene turd that sits atop a horribly financially overexposed pyramid in the form of the PL & EFL, plus they have some common decency like most well adjusted adults.

Oh, and they all get that refereeing is just shite, not a conspiracy against their team. Maybe it’s because we’re all closer to 50 than 40 (some closer to 60), I don’t know.
RHT/TS x

(5/6 Atleti was basically free money)

What Man City should do now
Given that Man City: Good guys is now clearly a-goner as a concept, and they’re probably not getting relegated, the best* thing they can do now is really lean into it. Do anything and everything they can to wind people up.

Hire Arteta, drop the English lads, mandatory spitting and a ban on handshakes. But most of all, with The Season now approaching, simply don’t put a poppy on the shirt.
Jeremy (*best, meaning what I, a league 2 club supporter and mildly interested bystander would find funniest) Aves