Liverpool titles to be stripped if Man City prove Coutinho cheating?

We feel like we might be nearing the end of almost two weeks of Manchester City bashing. We probably need the football now.

You can send your mails to theeditor@football365.com. What did you think of England?

What if Liverpool never bought Philippe Coutinho…
So while reading through Will Ford’s latest on why Man City’s appeal is doomed to failure, I became interested when it got to the City Scouting system/Liverpool hacking saga.

He lists a load of second-rate players that Liverpool signed after the alleged hacks as some reason of dismissal, and i was intrigued as to which of those shite players City were or would ever be interested in.

I then realised there’s one glaring omission, who would probably meet a City player profile to a tee, signed in January 2013, towards the back end of those alleged hacks.

That player was Philippe Coutinho.

So in the best traditions of F365 using tenuous reasoning to produce various ‘what if’ articles, can we have one identifying all the players bought with the never ending Coutinho money, which clubs it disadvantaged, plus stripping and re-allocating any titles they may have won nefariously (especially all those net spend trophies) because of it please.

Also curious with the current Man City saga, that if titles are stripped, would the ‘Aguerooo’ one still be valid?

I ask because the Premier League FFP rules were introduced the season after, so City couldn’t technically fail FFP or break non existent rules (As far as i know the PL also have any specific rules or punishment for ‘failure to provide accurate accounts’ at this time).
Scott, N. Yorks (Gone Fishing)

Same old Arsenal, always cheating
Okay David, lets drag other clubs into this embarrassing situation in respect of the supposedly best league in the world. I’ve read a number of articles from foreign rags and they are all shocked or loving what this disruptive organisation is doing to our League’s reputation!

I’ve held back from this debate because I commented a while back saying that City will get away with this because of their fiscal authority. Maybe I was wrong as the panel seems to have taken a strong stance but who knows? . The UAE very rarely play by the rules in anything they do so any City fans defending them might want to consider that. Although I sympathise with their genuine, traditional supporters because their owners have basically destroyed the club’s history and reputation as an honourable football body, a bit like what happened to Chelsea (although, as a Londoner I don’t know many non Chelsea fans who had any time for them anyway!) whatever penalties suffer, I wonder where will their honour can go from here? They are finished as a reputable club as far as my humble opinion is worth.

Sorry, I went off track a little there because I was responding to David’s email who seemed to be addressing the repetitive, historical argument against Arsenal regarding their controversial promotion to the top flight in 1919. “Same old Arsenal, always cheating!” if I’m not mistaken. I came across a Chelsea fan on Facebook defending City… you couldn’t write it really could you? (also City are playing PSG midweek!). Two criminal organisations standing up for one another. It makes sense.

Now, if one’s going to come down on Arsenal for something that happened over one hundred years ago then that really is clutching at straws. Fair enough, Sir Henry was a highly influential figure both in government and football but is influencing a legitimate vote which demoted the Spuds criminal bearing in mind he exploited the match fixing antics of Liverpool and Man Utd to gain support. Ironically it kept Chelsea up The main distortion was because of Leeds City, would one believe, refusing to release their financial records… ring a bell? A number of their directors got banned from English football for life. Herbert Chapman was initially banned but he cleared his name and became a legend at Huddersfield and Arsenal. Herbert Chapman went on to restore Arsenal’s reputation after Sir Henry was banned from football for utilising club funds privately and bunging some backhanders/bonuses in for transfer deals. Chelsea had to sell up so can there be any lenciancy towards City? Burnham, keep out and write a manifesto or pluck your eyebrows!

So, regarding banning individuals for taking advantage of the organisation they own, does one see a pattern and what is probably the correct stance for authorities to take towards City and their owners?

Now, with the modern football era where, in all fairness, it’s difficult to understand finance at all because of the different angles entrepreneurs approach it from, it’s still quite clear however that a corrupt nothing of a country doesn’t care about City and their fans and that token gesture of putting 0.1% of their wealth into the East side of Manchester is no more than a method of laundering into this nation. The fact they’re threatening to cut trade deals etc. proves their guilt and how false they are to City as a club and the City itself. They’ve destroyed the club’s reputation no matter what the appeal outcome is. Will you as proper supporters be able to move on after the outcome? I’m sure proper supporters will be able to.

Many of my mates have given up watching top flight football and go and watch non league teams. Football has become ridiculous but how do I get rid of my addiction for Arsenal?
Chris, Croydon

Premier League has one shot with Man City
As expected there is a significant back-and-forth on what City’s actions mean. And what the verdict means. Those that are suggesting that it’s hypocrisy and that City were merely trying to defeat the establishment miss many many points.

We shall park the point of who owns them, why they own them, what’s they’ve done on the world, sports washing and why they’ll succeed (and encourage it further) in this regard if fans actually make their case for the etc for another day.

The main point missed is that the most successful club of the last 15 years has been found guilty of industrial scale cheating. Cheating that changed the landscape of football for all and threatens the EPLs future – given the reputation and trust in the league is badly hit.

So this is a moment. Having been found guilty – the EPL has one shot. One shot at saving the game at the highest level. Anyone seeking to defend City is supporting the efforts of those that have tarnished the game, risked the league – and seem quite prepared to burn it all to the ground if necessary should the verdict hold and sanctions be applied.

Any outcome that sees City “get off lightly “ sees City able to exist in their own bubble of “normality” and everyone else basically disenfranchised and uncommitted.

Perhaps that will feel like a victory for City and their fans. Cults lack perspective as a rule. It’s their jam. But make no mistake. Nothing will ever be the same again. Either English football will be wounded but will recover without Man City – or it will include City in whatever Cormac McCarthy reimagined hellscape of a burned out league that it will then be.
Johnno

…The only thing that’s changed with the City verdict is that willful ignorance is no longer a possibility for us fans. Be honest, we all knew the Premier League was corrupt and we all knew City were cheating but we could make believe it was all fair and above board. That’s gone now, we know for a fact that it’s not a level playing field and, if not dealt with, it’s no longer a sport.

Football began for me when Charlie Nicholas scored two scrappy goals in a league cup final against Liverpool in the 80s. I didn’t know nor care who the owners of Arsenal were, I just liked watching a match and slabbering with my mates in school on a Monday. That was what football was, the actual kicking of the football into the rectangle. Then the Premier League, in their pursuit of infinite wealth, allowed nation states to own our football clubs and football became something else. If you didn’t cancel your Sky subscription when that happened then you won’t now.

This was always going to happen when we got into bed with nation states. The fact that the potential of punishing one of our clubs for industrial level cheating hinges on billion pound property deals, international trade and involves the f***ing Prime Minister is an utterly, utterly, utterly ridiculous situation. The Premier League is on life support right now, if it doesn’t make the right choice then it becomes sports entertainment and gives up any pretense of being sport.
SC, Belfast

A suitable punishment
Fines, point deductions, relegation etc are all well and good but nothing City won’t ultimately recover from even if it does take years. I favour a punishment with more permanence, where the cheating won’t be forgotten and the stigma won’t fade.

The club should be forced to officially change it’s name to Manchester 114.

Picture the scene. It’s 2050 and a long, arduous climb through the divisions finally culminates in a Champions League win. Amidst all the celebrations a little boy in sky blue turns to his father and asks ‘Daddy, why are we called Manchester 114?’ The father sighs. ‘It could be worse son. At least we’re not called Spurs.’
Conor Malone, Donegal

The reverse draft?
‘Just when i thought i was out they pull me back in’…… What can I say, moth to a flame with the FFP chat. Lots of (again….at this point deliberate misunderstanding) that the only alternative to the current rules is unlimited spending.

But if we say huge debt magically should be allowed for some reason and it’s about on field success, how do the Red Cartel ‘more historically successful club fans’ feel about limiting spending based on where you finish the previous season. In some ways a reverse draft, if you will. Surely if it’s all about success on the pitch building more success, you’d all support it? It would impact salaries too, with huge performance incentives on lower case. Spurs and Man U would have had some pretty frugal transfer windows these last few years….. Arteta’s title would have taken a lot longer, but as we all keep being told, you just have to be patient and do it the right way.
Tarqs, NUFC

Greatest champions ever?
What if, and I know it won’t happen, every Premier League team kicked off and then walked off the pitch, City are awarded a 3-0 win and finish the season with 114 points, over 100 goals and a goal difference of 100+. What if, and it won’t happen, every single home supporter didnt attend the game.

Surely this would be the best protest that could ever happen.
Howard (all their wins were meh anyway) Jones

Petro states will now target legacy clubs
Just a quick addition to Lindsay’s recent letters that I haven’t seen mentioned. So far it at has been about how removing PSR wouldn’t benefit the Villas of this world and only enable more dominance for City and Newcastle. But that is only based on the current owners.

Imagine you are one of the other Petro states and decide that you want to get in on this sports washing action and are looking to invest an obscene amount in to a Premier League club.

Do you choose option A? Buy a middling club, with little global reach, a relatively small fan base, not a lot of historical success and little attraction to the global superstars you are hoping to buy? And end up spending 5 or so seasons building the club and squad to get to where a couple of the big hitters already are. Or option B, buy one of the legacy clubs with everything that comes with it, the club infrastructure and commercialism, the fans, the squad, the history and have instant global reach for the sports washing to commence?

Admittedly, the Petro state will need to spend more to buy the legacy club, but once they’ve done that, with a couple of superstar signings sprinkled on top to make the fans happy, you are ready and set to throw you weight around the global soft power game. No need to build, no 5 year wait to join the big guns. It will probably be cheaper in the long run as well.

So yeah, remove the PSR and watch Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal be bought and continue their historical dominance, with City and Newcastle (somewhat) joining in. Even less scope for competition from the others.
Dean LFC

The vast majority do not want City burned to the ground
Friendly reminder folks, you do realise the more sanctimonious and silly among you re City punishments are in a minority among football fans, and tiny minority in the country?

Neatly encapsulated in the latest ‘BURN THEM’ style mail from whoever writing about geopolitical realities versus their need to take out their spite towards City and criticising Burnham as a result.

I guarantee you the average punter when offered either some of the draconioan w**k fants you lot are floating daily, and the prospect of tens of billions leaving the economy that might affect them & their family economically adversely, or the money remaining here that is associated with a more sane punishment, they’re ALL taking option 2.

That Dave LFC mail though – why do City FANS need to say sorry? For what? Classy finally admitting the animal you had up front was a racist too though. Using racism as a bargaining chip to get a sorry from folk who’ve done nowt over their club cheating? Dearie me mate, get a grip of yourself.

Great mail from Lindsay I thought btw – best answer I’ve heard so far is the PL effectively taxing bigger spends past a certain threshold then distributing that tax to the other clubs to ensure the gap doesn’t get too wide.
RHT/TS x

(It’s all academic anyway, because the mighty Northampton Town & Pato are coming to get you all, in errrrrrrm 50 years)

More love for Johnny
It was sad to read John Nicholson’s last column. But it was coming, wasn’t it? I wasn’t really surprised. In his recent columns, he sounded completely disillusioned; able to see, with clarity, this thing for what it actually is. He is absolutely right. For all the progress, still this thing is headed for the edge of the cliff and we are just deluding ourselves into thinking it is actually worth anything.

Anyway I wish Johnny the best; may he long live and prosper and listen to his records!

His final piece was beautiful and I enjoyed it. Now off to listening to my own records!
Karen Asad

…Isn’t it funny how those who are expressing their fondness, and sadness that Johnny Nic has left the building are all, like me, readers from 20+ years ago.

I wonder if is indicative of the generational gap that F365 now inhabits. Those who are far less easy to offend, and those who maybe just don’t ‘get’ his style, humour, wit and moaning.

God speed, fella. You have been an integral part of my weekly reading for so long that it’s unsettling to think that far back to the temp role I had whilst people shouted Awoooga at one another across the office.
Dan Mallerman

…I’ve been a daily reader of F365 for many years now. One of those regular sites you go on and know you’ll enjoy some of the content. Johnny, along with others previously of the site such as Daniel Storey, stood out. Shout out to the other writers too – Matt and Ian always have my nodding along and/or laughing.

Johnny’s style strikes me as conversational. You can imagine sitting in a warm pub talking football and enjoying life. I don’t always agree with his opinion (though mostly I do) but that’s fine. He is a person of strong opinions expressed with humility and humour.

In years gone by I have enjoyed the columns written on pundits and football coverage. Often combined with snapshots into his and Dawn’s life. It all felt very real and authentic. I think that’s what drew me, and perhaps others, to his writing so much. Real thoughts, unfettered opiniond delivered with authnetic feeling.

Thank you, Johnny. F365 will go on but will be poorer without you. Wishing you and Dawn all the best for the future.
Glaze

Love for the humans of F365
Just wanted to share some love with Michael Lee for today’s column.

Very thoughtful and the opposite of AI slop. It feels nice to read concise, human prose once in a while.

Also, best wishes to John Nicholson 🙂 A lot of the topics he discussed didn’t resonate with me but the sincerity and kindness always felt real and heart-warming.

And of course, lots of love to Sarah Winterburn. Always pithy and funny. I miss those weird podcasts!

All the best,
Joyce