Jurgen Klopp’s charisma affords Liverpool boss more leeway than Mikel Arteta…

Jurgen Klopp benefits from being a good egg, says the Mailbox, which continues the inquest into Manchester United’s latest nadir while offering some solutions. One involves Roy Keane and a weapon…

Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com…

Best league in the world?
With 2 of the 4 best teams from the PL last year coming last in their CL group, can we stop saying that the PL is the ‘best league in the world’?
Steve – Gooner Adelaide

The United way
Y’know, Manchester United have never been the best run of clubs traditionally. They had their brief flirt with ultimate glory in the late 60s, but really… That was mostly it. They were a fine European team in the late 50s too until the Munich disaster, but really, those were the only periods they seemed like proper contenders for “best club in the world” status, these brief little flurries. Man Utd were comfortable being a higher ranked mid table club until the mid 80s, 4th would be regarded as a good season in the red half of Manchester.

Then they got this control freak called Alex Ferguson and he looked at the possibilities and thought he could squeeze the infrastructure of the club into greatness. It took him about 7 years to even touch it! That was the state of Man Utd then. Sure, they called themselves contenders and wanted to be, but they were nowhere close and Ferguson had to be insanely patient for the club as a whole to start approaching his level. When it did though it became the regular and the players who were there now call it “The Manchester United way” or “to play for Manchester United, it takes x and y” etc.

Their Manchester United and all the people who’ve grown up with that Manchester United grew up with a freak version of Manchester United. That was not “The United Way”. Current era Manchester United has always been the United way, interspersed with rare occasions of freak success. Alex Ferguson’s Man Utd wasn’t really Man Utd. It was Alex Ferguson dragging a reputable club up to his level for 27 years.

That’s not the United way, THIS is the United way. Just be in the limelight enough to be considered possible dark horses but those dreams get cut off sooner than later and if they’re lucky they might win the fa cup or something. That’s a good Manchester United season, top 6 and an FA Cup.

“The United Way” won’t be the norm unless they make a habit of appointing fiercely determined managers who are willing to wait for success and take the heat even if it looks like the heat is insurmountable. That has only happened once though and they’ve shown no gumption following through with the so called “United Way” since that ended. Stop kidding yourselves, it’s a high ranked mid table club, and always has been in it’s soul.
Dave (Harry Maguire is a typical Manchester United kind of player too), Dublin

Let Keane loose
Ten Hag may or may not be the right manager (let’s be honest, it’s leaning towards the latter at the moment) but I think every United fan is sick to the back teeth of these players leaking and downing tools.

So, can we start a campaign that if this dressing room sees off another manager, Roy Keane is installed as caretaker til the end of the season, with a length of hose with nails pushed through it as his assistant? I won’t care about the inevitably terrible results, I just want them to suffer.
Lewis, Busby Way

Andre Onono
Can I take a moment to explain what Onana is doing wrong please?

Firstly, if there was ever anyone to target with a Nigerian prince/princess or “click here for singles in your area” scam, it’s him.

Have you ever seen someone so easily fooled on a football pitch? He flops around like a fish out of water at the slightest movement. Constantly falling the wrong way before a ball has even been kicked.

I also have a serious problem with the way he ‘dives’ and the way he tries to save shots.

He doesn’t dive and get a strong hand to it. He flops and flicks his hand out at the last second, like he’s catching a tennis ball that has been thrown at him from a few feet away. This is why so many of his saves end up back in the danger area. His hand should be in a fixed position, you know, like every other goalkeeper does. Then it’s either a strong hand to parry or a softer hand to catch. But either way, it doesn’t flick at the last second.

I honestly don’t know what he’s doing but he lacks such basic fundamentals it’s unreal. And “as someone who” grew up idolising Peter Schmeichel, it’s embarrassing to watch this goalkeeper.

The Great Dane would have flown out and taken both the ball and the man for that Bayern goal. Onana stayed on his line, fell one way and then jumped the other way when it was too late.

What a joke.
Silvio Dante

Read more: ‘There was a marked contrast’ – Onana ranked below goalkeeper who’s ‘not world-class’

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Simple solution​
I can’t help noticing a recurring theme among many of the recent mails from exasperated Man U fans. This is perhaps most pithily summed up by this morning’s correspondent, Emmanuel, Abjua: “Don’t sign superstars, target young, energetic players like Hojlund . . . who seem to give a toss about the club”. This seems a rather reductive way of thinking. For starters, Hojlund doesn’t actually appear to be a very good player. Likeable, yes. Hardworking, most definitely. But on current evidence not noticeably brilliant at football. The same is true of Maguire, McTominay and Mejbri. I’m not saying they’re rubbish, just not quite the standard you associate with an iconic club like Man U. Secondly, it is not always the case that superstars are lazy, selfish or otherwise problematic. It probably seems so to Man U fans after they’ve suffered such nauseating characters as Pogba, CR7 and Fernandes in recent years, but actually most ‘superstars’ achieve that status by being model professionals. I offer you Lionel Messi, Zinedine Zidane, Gianfranco Zola, Denis Bergkamp and many more.

In summary, I suggest Man U adopt a more nuanced approach: sign superstars who seem to give a toss about the club.

Admittedly, that would mean clearing out most of your current squad, but you’ve got to start somewhere.
Matt Pitt

…I do not hold a UEFA Pro coaching licence but I can see, along with my 4 year old, that left footed Anthony cannot go to the endline and cross a ball on the right wing, something sometimes fairly important for a winger, might I suggest at least something that should be in their armoury. Why has ten Hag never put him down the left wing so that he can use his left foot to maybe beat a player and cross a ball? Is it that he knows the 70+M winger he bought cannot beat a player and cross a ball at full pelt? He is the absolute one in fifteen trick pony, and he’s not even that now.
The players in Old Trafford have been completely overpaid for the last 15 years or so due to scrambling at the last minute not ot lose them for nothing or to find something with two legs under the age of 40 that played at a fairly high level sometime or they were highly rated on FIFA or some such bollocks, and it is not surprising to see one after another lie down after getting a 5 or 5+1 contract with United. Until the recruitment is turned upside down they will continue to flatter to failure.
That doesn’t excuse ten Hags purchases or the inability/reluctance of the United board to admit a humongous error(multiple) and just cut their losses and not repeat same over and over. How many players on a free in July were thrown huge contracts so they wouldn’t leave for nowt and ended up coasting to retirement playing as much football after signing as they had been before it.
If they haven’t already pretty much decided on next summers purchases, and wait until league starts again before buying superstars(don’t panic Mr Mainwering) it will be rinse and repeat.

Love and Xs
Damo

No sympathy for the Devils
In a must win game Utd looked so so scared of Bayern. A Bayern team that lost 5-1 at the weekend yet never had to get out of second gear last night. Kane with an assist means he has as many assists at OT this season as Fernandes and more assists than Antony.

There are so many other embarrassing stats flying about but here are facts.
(1)TAA has scored more goals in Manchester in the PL this season than any Utd forward.
(2)The top scoring forward at OT in the PL this season is Haaland.
(3)Utd have lost 12 of 24 games played this season.
(4)Utd have a negative gd in the PL AND the CL.
People can waffle on about owners and the structure but that has nothing to do with the above. Other “big clubs” have been in the doldrums but outspending City to produce the above dross is actually impressive.

Utd can whine about injuries but in their starting 11 last night they had:
A £50m keeper
An £85m centre half.
A £47m centre half.
A £30m left back.
A £50m midfielder.
A £72m striker.
An £85m winger.
They also brought on a £50m right back.
To put in that performance last night was ridiculous.
In their last 4 games they’ve failed to score in 3 of them.

Liverpool had to use 18 different centre back pairings in 20/21 due to ridiculous injuries. Against Utd in the FA CUP they had a pairing of Nat Philips and Rhys Williams.
Against Utd in the PL they had Fabinho and Henderson at centre back…and still kept a clean sheet.

Funny how Utd fans slagging off Klopp for “not being able to rebuild” or “he has no plan B” have all disappeared isn’t it?
Top of the league.
Top scorers.
Best gd
Unbeaten at home in the PL in 16 months.
1 defeat in all competitions at home since March 2021.
ETH doesn’t even have a plan A and can’t even build, never mind rebuild.
Just tell me the Norwich scarves are on the way??
Gussy, Ireland.

…This is who Man Utd have beaten this season in the league this season:

Wolves (home)
Forest (home)
Burley (away)
Brenford (home)
Sheff Utd (away)
Fulham (away)
Luton (home)
Everton (away)
Chelsea (home)

Only Fulham (10th) in the top half of the table. And only once in that spectacular run have they won by more than a single goal. I am not sure that a team sitting in sixth, a mere six points behind the top four, has ever been so flattered by their current league placing.

I just wanted to point this out, so that when Garey Vance says “But with all that time to prepare now, who is going to rule us out of a title charge?”, I can only assume he is taking the piss.
Matthew (prepared to tempt the football gods and state how much I am looking forward to the game on Sunday)

Why cuddly Klopp gets away with it
Jon Matrix, AFC doesn’t understand why Jurgen Klopp gets away with his behaviour which in his opinion is as egregious as that of Mikel Arteta. I agree that Jurgen Klopp often behaves in a discourteous and boorish way, but, and I think this is crucial, Jurgen Klopp agrees as well. He regularly recognises when he’s behaved poorly and apologises. Mikel Arteta, on the other hand, follows the Limmy playbook: “don’t back doon, double doon,” and this may be why he isn’t given the same amount of slack as the Liverpool manager.

Also, and this is perhaps subjective and unfair, Jurgen Klopp comes across as, or is able to portray himself as, quite likeable and easy-going when he isn’t being a prick, and Mikel Arteta, er, doesn’t as much. Maybe it is just the veneers.
Dara O’Reilly

…In reply to the mail this morning about why people seem to hate Arteta more than Klopp, I thought I’d add my two cents as a spurs fan who complains regularly about both, particularly as they keep winning.

First of all, I think lots of people do think Klopp is a bit of a knob, his response to a small joke from a journalist the other day was pretty embarrassing, but I think this is counteracted overall by the fact he seems like a fairly genuine, quite funny guy. Prime example being the vid of him saying the translator has an erotic voice. Yeah he’s competitive and reacts badly sometimes, but I think we’d all do similar if we got interviewed after our team losing to a last minute winner.

On the flip side, Arteta has the all the same negative traits, but with none of the positives. He comes across as very smug, quite negative and just a bit weird. He’s the only manager I’ve seen get onto the pitch during opposition counter attacks which annoys me a weird amount (and he’s made Arsenal very good which annoys me even more).

If you did a poll of who neutral fans would rather go to the pub with, I’d predict 99%+ would pick Klopp. Make it happen F365
Louis

Fun while it lasted
So the Champions League dream is over for this season for Newcastle. I for one very much enjoyed it for what it was. We were very competitive in 5 out of 6 games, with away to Dortmund being the only game we really looked out of our depth. It’s a pity this last game landed when it did, in the midst of a very poor run of form. With the return of Burn, Wilson and Longstaff I feel we’ll have a few more options to freshen up or change tactics during a game, so another week could have possibly made a big difference. The game last night was good though, lots of chances, no horrible injustices to feel aggrieved about (unlike Paris), just a bit too much of a reach for now. It’s been a really good experience for the fans though, who have been on the outside of European competition for too long. It has also been a big learning opportunity for the team and Eddie Howe. I think the next time we play in Europe, we’ll have at least 2 more transfer windows to beef up the squad and clear out the last of the aging/unwanted players from the Ashley years (Dummett, Richie and others who aren’t able for this level). Hopefully future additions won’t be instantly banned for a year or injured before they get going (like poor Harvey Barnes).

I have mixed feelings about missing out on third. It would have been good to continue the European adventure in some form, but if we can use the extra breathing space to have a good second half to the season and a good run at the 2 cups we have a shot at winning I’ll be happy enough.

Quite a few pundits have questioned the future of Howe in the wake of crashing out and our bad form over the last couple of weeks. I, for one, am very happy with him and would not consider changing. All the failures have been excusable based on injuries/opposition/squad depth, and I’m not sure who they think would come in to do better with what he is working with. His reaction to defeats has been measured and he always supports the players, which I respect. We are, of course, very early into the new regime, so it remains to be seen what type of owners they are when things go wrong. Are they trigger happy or do they consider the big picture/long view? From what we have seen they don’t seem to be the types to be rattled by media talk, so if the fans stay supportive, I would be hopeful that Howe is safe for now. I would be very pissed off it they gave him the boot and replaced him with a relentlessly negative ‘serial winner’ like Conte or Mourinho. I’m sure Spurs and Man U fans would agree with me on that one.

Regardless of the disappointments of this season, I’m enjoying the ride and the high points more than make it worthwhile
Derek from Dundalk

Nice one, Kalvin
Well, that’s 18 points out of a maximum of 18 points for City in the CL. Which is marvellous, but I really wanted to talk about Kalvin Phillips. Back in the day, I couldn’t wait to rush into the pulpit and scream righteous abuse at the likes of Man United and Chelsea (amongst others) for hoovering up players that they didn’t necessarily need but bought anyway. Because they could.

I wouldn’t say City have done anywhere near the same thing in terms of general recruitment over the past few years, and yet I really can’t justify my club buying Phillips only to then give him mere minutes on the pitch. He was a much-loved player at Leeds, as well as an exciting England prospect, and rightly so in both cases. But I can’t help but think that his move to the Etihad was anything but a retrograde step. And that’s on City, I think.

Of course, he’s a treble winner and, whatever else happens in his career, nobody will be able to take that from him. Still, I was unexpectedly delighted when he scored last night. Especially with the notable absence of any SM hissy-fits or other public whining which, it might be argued, you could perhaps have excused him for since he was signed.

All credit to him for that. Guardiola’s made it perfectly clear that City is not for him going forward. I hope he gets a move to a team that gives him another opportunity to show his class and, who knows, prove to Guardiola that he was wrong to let him go.
Mark (Good luck Our Kid) MCFC.

A cunning plan
I didn’t get to watch tonight’s City game, but did read that one of the young chaps to score was called Bobb.

If Blackadder’s taught me anything then that fellow is actually a rather fetching lass who’s trying to prove she’s equally as good as the men.

Ta,
Dave (wobble) PVFC

Absolute Bull
A reply to Morgan: Remember what I was saying about Arsenal fans and their North Korean style Fake News and excuse-making? Morgan points out Liverpool’s Brazilian Steve Bull winning the PL with Liverpool and brings up his anaemic goal record.
Of course, the part he’s left out is that Firmino wasn’t a pure 9, was part of a devastating front three and oh – there’s this Salah guy who is the definition of clinical striker.
But yes, I blame PGMOL/oil money/GDP contraction/Deep State/15-minute cities/Small boats/the EU/the new Olivia Rodrigo album. 🥱🙄
Stewie Griffin (one day, like the Brexiters, Arsenal fans will be intellectually honest and admit their failings)

…How come Steve Bull is getting mugged off so frequently. The bloke was mustard.
Dan

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Season’s greetings​
I’ve been reading this fine mailbox almost daily for about 15 years now (wow, where did the time go?). As an American who only came to love football in his late teenage years, it has been a wonderful window into the various cultures and attitudes surrounding the sport, from a truly global base of contributors.

I guess I just want to say thank you to everyone and pay compliments to some longtime contributors and old heads that have been popping in here again recently. It is obviously just my perception, but it feels like the mailbox has really had a real return to form in terms of quality this season. I don’t know if we all fell into a bit of apathy after so much Man City dominance, or if it is the general decay of patience and nuanced perspective, but a real sourness and overly tribal atmosphere has seemed to haunt this place for the past several years. However, the mailbox has really been in form again this campaign! I wonder if the general level of parity in the league thus far has helped spark our collective passion and imagination around here?

It was so great to see Peter G return to the mailbox (please write some more, Prof!) and Carolyn South London Gooner popping in. Oliver Dziggel, Graham Simons, Ed QTR, Silvio Dante, and so many others have made this such a great community over the years. While I am lucky to have a large and loving family, I don’t have many people in my life that share my passion for football. You are all my footballing family and I wish you all the happiest of holidays. It is truly a feast of football at this time of year and I hope that we can all appreciate it. Before you know it, 15 more years will pass and you will look back on these as The Good Ol’ Days, as improbable as that might seem right now.

Much love and kindness,
Dan, CNY (formerly Dan, NYC; I moved upstate)