Man Utd are ‘average club with delusions of grandeur’ as Liverpool prepare for ‘procession’

Manchester United and Liverpool continue to dominate the discourse, with some keen to point out that United are just reverting to the norm.

Meanwhile, the notion that Liverpool have been lucky has been dismissed.

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You’re all scared of Liverpool procession

Do you know what’s really gripping people’s sh*t?

Liverpool have performed exactly as many pundits and fans predicted in preseason – loads of new players, haven’t gelled yet, will take time to gel, performances have been a bit sketchy.

Unfortunately, what wasn’t in the script was them just continuing to win games whilst playing this way.

They were meant to be dropping points, allowing other teams to put pressure on them in the title race. But they reckoned without the elite winning mentality in the dressing room, the one that runs right through the team, one that refuses to accept anything apart from winning games.

What’s spooking people is the realisation that if they’re able to win in the current circumstances, what the hell’s going to happen when they click?

The bottom line here: the naysayers wanted a title race this year, but they’re terrified that they won’t get one and it’ll be another procession.
Andy H, Swansea

READ: Do unconvincingly flawless Liverpool still have a Trent Alexander-Arnold problem?

Lucky Liverpool? Not quite.

It’s clear that a lot of the reaction to Liverpool this season has been based on mailboxers watching highlights and/or alerts on social media. Had they watched the full 90s (admittedly a slog for the Arsenal game) they would have seen a team that was so deliberate and varied in its attack that they earned their wins through elite management and attacking talent plus sheer graft.

Liverpool were cruising 2-0 against Bournemouth when, while going for a third, they carelessly gave the ball away twice and conceded two excellent breakaway goals. Slot managed the situation and his substitute (Chiesa) scored what was effectively the winner.

It was a similar story against Newcastle. Of course the timing of the goal, the age of the goalscorer and the context of the Isak transfer raised the stakes but once again, Slot managed the situation and it paid off as he had hoped.

The Arsenal game was a battle for tactical supremacy and therefore a largely dull affair. However, at half time Slot instructed his team to increase the intensity of passing and make more direct runs. It almost paid off twice, with one attempt being ruled out for offside while the other led to a free kick which won the game. Even that wasn’t dumb luck as Szoboszlai has a decent record of scoring freekicks.

Liverpool dominated Burnley by every measure. So much so that Van Dijk and Konate’s average position was probably in the attacking half(!) But yet again, Slot managed his personnel and tactics and so eventually, 100 minutes of attacking pressure forced an error, resulting in a pressure penalty which still look some Egyptian minerals to put away.

Is there room for improvement? Yes. Have the matches been a breathtaking spectacle? No. However, Liverpool have not been lucky either. The manager has managed the situations and when called upon, the players have made some stunning contributions. That’s keeping in mind they’ve played 3 of last season’s best teams as well has a promoted team that hadn’t lost at home for a whole season (in the Champo, obviously).

Is it sustainable? Well, possibly yes because I doubt Slot will forget his tactical nous and it’s unlikely Liverpool’s vast array of attackers will all have stinkers all at the same time for most of the season.

It won’t guarantee Liverpool will win the league though. Arsenal have their best squad for 20 years and Man City have a genius coach. If Liverpool carry on as they are, they will challenge. But if they can improve then they’ll be strong favourites to take the crown again.
Nilesh, Harrow

Manchester United not an inherently successful club

Over the last few years (post Fergie) we’ve all read how this is not the Manchester United we know, United are this huge behemoth, this winning machine that’s only ever known success and what we’re seeing now is an aberration and given time and the right people United will be back to being the top dogs once again. Well I’m here to tell you that this just isn’t the case, outside of Ferguson and say Matt Busby, United have always been an average club/team that got lucky with one man.

Man United is a huge club with many supporters across the globe, often being touted as THE biggest club in world football and an inherently successful club for the whole time it’s been around – but a closer examination of the club’s history reveals something different, Manchester United’s golden era of dominance is almost entirely attributable to one man, Alex Ferguson.

Outside his reign (and a good few years under Matt Busby) the club has struggled to maintain consistent success, which means United are not this inherently successful club we’ve been led to believe and never have been.

Before Ferguson’s appointment in 1986, Manchester United’s trophy cabinet was hardly bulging. In 109 years from when they were founded in 1878 to when Ferguson was given the job in 1986, United won the league title just seven times, a decent amount of titles but hardly dominant. For most of its life it was overshadowed by more successful clubs like Liverpool. They had a modicum of success under Matt Busby who won 5 of their 7 league titles and one European cup.

As an aside my grandad who was a scouser and staunch Liverpool fan would always say they were the greatest side he’d ever seen even after watching the Liverpool sides of the 70’s and 80’s. They obviously had the Munich air disaster which curtailed what could’ve been a longer stretch of dominance but inbetween these great managers the club endured long droughts, relegations, and instability.

It was under Alex Ferguson that Manchester United became the powerhouse that we all know today. Between 1986 and 2013, United won 13 Premier League titles, 5 FA Cups and 2 Champions Leagues. Ferguson built and rebuilt squads and created a culture of excellence. He wasn’t just the manager of Man United, he was Man United.

Since his retirement in 2013, Manchester United have failed spectacularly to replicate Ferguson’s success. Despite having seasoned high-profile managers like José Mourinho, Louis van Gaal etc… and spending billions in some of the so called best players in the world, the club has failed get the results it thinks it deserves. They’ve won the odd trinket here and there but never coming close to the big fellas like the league and Champions League.

This post-Ferguson decline exposes the truth that Manchester United is not inherently successful. It was Ferguson who instilled a winning mentality, developed world-class players, and created a dynasty. Without him, the club has been unable to stand on its own two feet.

The myth of Manchester United as this great inherently successful club is just that, a myth. The club’s success story is the story of one man basically. Without Sir Alex Ferguson, Manchester United has reverted back to its mean, an average club with delusions of grandeur.
Mick T, Liverpool

READ: Ruben Amorim is the worst of 19 Sir Jim Ratcliffe mistakes at Manchester United

Another Liverpool fan with an unbiased opinion on Man Utd

As a Liverpool supporter I find the Manchester United circus hilarious and long may it continue.

But putting bias aside (I hope) I am absolutely baffled by the whole thing, both inside and outside the club.

Man Utd are the second most successful club in English football and whilst the majority of their major successes came in a relatively short space of time, they have been at the forefront for a very long time and as such can dominate the media and social platforms.

The current squad is a mixture of very good, pretty average, past their sell by dates, young and inexperienced, and frankly ridiculously over rated players. All if this due to a succession of terrible manager appointments and even worse transfer dealings. If Liverpool did indeed consider Amorim as a replacement for Klopp and as is believed, walked away having held discussions over playing style, what numpty’s at United didn’t hold the same conversation? Whilst City will spend £50mil on a player and twelve months later another £60mil on an upgrade, United have spent millions on the wrong player and even more on another in the same position who is no better than what they have or is yet another fingers crossed signing.

Is there a funnier sight than watching a Premier League record signing once again be caught out of position and desperately looking like he’s running through mud to try and recover whilst failing again, add to that an unfit full back, who everyone knows is unfit, also labouring.
Record after record is being set as the worst ever start is now replaced by a new worst ever start. And yet the mailbox is still populated with people saying “we can finish top 4 with some good signings in January”, I saw youtube video of a fan saying that Sesko was excellent and De Ligt was excellent in a game City won without breaking sweat. Do these fans really believe that ‘cos if they do, they are part of the problem.

With the possible exception of Mbeumo, United don’t have a single player who would be a starter in any of the top 6 sides from last season (well maybe Villa) a damning indictment on their transfer dealings and yet the fans still believe (admirable but delusional), and still find excuses.

United’s problems lie in every aspect, the owners, the management, the playing staff and the fan base, until at least one recognises it’s part in this shitshow, nothing will change.

And whilst I will get some flak I would point Utd fans to The Spirit of Shankly, a body which ultimately forced our despised owners and their totally inadequate manager and his totally inadequate players out of the club, it still took a while to get the club back to where it had been but it has been done. United have not taken the first step yet.
Howard (31 from 31!) Jones

Premier League table since Ruben Amorim took over Man Utd:

Man Utd are a mid-table side in every sense

“No one ever won anything without a decent defence, and defence starts in midfield.”

No offense, Badwolf, but this quote explains a lot about Manchester United and Manchester United fans.

It’s 2025, man. Defense starts in attack and vice-versa. Give a closer look at the clubs competing for the shiny stuff that Man Utd presumably want to win via Project 2028. Man Utd’s manager, executives, ownership, and fans STILL have no idea of what’s required of a winning team in 2025. Getting a player like Baleba (who still needs quite a bit of development) would end up being pointless if the players ahead of him in any formation under any manager don’t do their bit to prevent the ball from getting into the midfield area with ease.

In any event, Man City mostly bypassed the midfield while tallying up three goals yesterday, so there’s that to consider as well.

You’re absolutely right about the “mid-table” bit though. Long may it continue.
Deen (AFC, USA)

Ruben Amorim will die on this Bruno Fernandes hill

I don’t see Amorim lasting much longer. I am not really “Amorim out”, I am just stating how I believe it will unfold. I respect philosophies, but what makes humans the most successful species is the ability to adapt. Civilisations that failed always did so because the leaders/people became willfully blind. “This has worked for a thousand years” they will say, not understanding that the environment is not the same as a thousand years ago.

Now to football, If Amorim is not willing to admit that this Bruno as an 8 experiment is a failure that he is willfully blind. He is playing good players in wrong positions. Trying to force Bruno in to a midfield 2 has neutered the best side of Bruno’s game while still not solving the midfield issues.

Either he moves him forward so his creativity can be useful again or don’t play him at all. You can’t have it both ways.

Also, one will think that if you are trying to enculturate with a new philosophy, that it is easier to mold younger minds. Trying to teach old dogs new tricks (Shaw as LCB in a back 3 and Bruno as an 8) seems to me to be a much harder task. It seems to me easier to mold Mainoo and Heaven into the system players he desires.

He shouldn’t sacrifice players to his system and if he wants pick natural fits and improve certain aspects of their game than forcing people to learn entirely new positions. I don’t think he has that luxury.
Enahoro from Nigeria

READ: Is this the team that takes Man Utd back into Europe? With or without Amorim…

Prime examples

I’ve just read that Utd shouldn’t sack Amorim because Ferguson won nothing for a few years. Furthermore, Liverpool should stick with Wirtz because Ronaldo and Henry didn’t start particularly well.

Yes, of course. Because the best players / managers in Premier League history didn’t perform immediately, this means that all others should be given an extended breather? Give me strength. Souness said the same when he was blundering his way through his Newcastle contract, it just doesn’t wash.

BTW, no Isak in the Liverpool squad on Saturday, has he downed tools already?
Simon (NUFC) S, Cheshire

Why have one failed manager when you can have two?

I sent this in a few weeks ago and it went unpublished. I think it’s relevant again.

Mourinho and Ole have just recently both been fired from their respective Turkish clubs. What about an Ole-Jose double act for ManU? The old good-cop + c**t routine (I really dislike Jose, as a manager)

At this stage It really might be the last and only option. Surely it couldn’t work…. or could it? At very least it will be more inspiring than Southgate.

I’ll even supply the headlines. If it works it will be call an OGSM or OGSMic. If it doesn’t i’m sure the tabloids will be only too happy to go with something related to OJ.
Hats

Ruben Amorim is just not very good

All this talk of why Man Utd are struggling and discussion on whether the formation will work or not is missing the point. Any formation can work if it is coached and implemented well by players who fully back it.

Man Utd’s problem is Amorim’s inability to coach it, he just isn’t very good. Even if they switched to a formation that would apparently suit all the players, they would still struggle as he has no idea how to coach.

That’s it.

Liverpool are leaving it late, which isn’t ideal.

There are two trains of thought, they are lucky and will be found out or they will improve as the new players settle in and get used to the newer system they play. Given they are champions and have made quality additions, which is more likely?

Just as their rivals at the top(Arsenal and City) are more likely to improve as the season goes on, so are Liverpool. The real question is, out of the three who will improve the most. It’s looking like Arsenal right now…. but that’s right now and the season is long.
Liam Daly