Florian Wirtz flopping? Do you remember Ronaldo and Henry?

We are stuck in Florian Wirtz flop discussion until he runs the show against Burnley on Sunday, it seems.

We have some more England fall-out and a good question about which country has provided the Premier League with the best imports.

Send your views to theeditor@football365.com; we have got through this interlull together.

All Manc roads lead to funny

The great thing about the Manchester Derby this weekend is that I can’t think of a single outcome that isn’t funny.
Paul

READ: Amorim and United should smell City blood before Manchester derby

Who gives the Premier League the best imports?

While musing about United’s contingent of Portuguese players, I found myself wondering how many Portuguese players have been great successes in the PL. I guess there’s be a few down the years – Bernardo Silva, Bruno (I guess), Ronaldo of course, Dias has been decent, Carvalho was good enough to carry Terry. Cancelo looked good before falling out with the manager. Nani? Kind of. Not exactly a dominant list, maybe more a case of outliers.

With all the chat about Wirtz, how many Germans have been successes here? Hamann was decent, Klinsmann for sure, Gundogan certainly had moments, Sané had a short time, Ozil? Moments. Rudiger certainly looked good after he left. Havertz? Ballack? Hmm, suprisingly weak.

So, I wonder which nation has given us the best imports.

Dutch? Oh ok there’s a good number here. Bergkamp, Van Persie, Ruud, Robben, Overmars, Gullit, Hasselbaink, Gravenberch, Wijnaldum, Van Dijk, Van De Venn, Stam, De Ligt, Van Der Sar. Would make a very solid team.

French? Yeah no worries there. Henry, Petit, Le Boeuf, Lloris, little Louis Saha, Evra, Ginola, Cantona, Anelka, Makelele, Kante, Vieira, Pires, Flamini, Gallas, Desailly and a bunch of others like Barthez or Clichy who were kind of good.

Spain? Torres, Rodri, Fabregas, David Silva, Diego Costa, Alonso, Azpilicueta, Mata, Reina, Raya, De Gea? Er… er… oh. Still decent but surprisingly low number of real successes.

Does this mean Wirtz (or any specific signing) will be good or bad? No, it has no bearing on it at all. But if he’s does become a success, he will be added to a surprisingly short list.
Badwolf

Shock as Liverpool fan defends Wirtz

I get that at the moment it must be really annoying that there’s very little you can say to ruin the party for Liverpool fans. Literally the best team in the league, the most successful, and now we’ve added poaching other teams best players to the list.

Personally I’m not worried about Wirtz. I watched him enough in Germany to know that he’s an excellent player and players coming from Germany do take a bit to adapt due to the pace and physical nature of the league.

Plenty of players take time. Ronaldo was absolutely awful for a season and a half just doing step overs on the byline and losing the ball before Fergie obviously told him how to play properly. Henry did f*** all for ages and a lot of Arsenal fans said Wenger had wasted the money.

Some leagues are easier to come from than others. Germany and Italy are tough adaptations because they’re both slower and both give you more time on the ball than the break neck premier League or the high pressing Spanish league.

A bigger question for Slot is where does Wirtz play because he did all his best work for Leverkusen in sort of a free number 10 role but most commonly starting left and drifting inside.

Here’s my early World Cup prediction, the same one I’ve made at the last three tournaments where England fans are certain *this is the one* – I’ll wager a £100 England win f*** all and never will in my lifetime. Tuchel is a good coach who knows how to win cup competitions but he has yet to try that with a group of players with a bad inferiority complex who get rattled by the first sign of trouble.
Lee

MAILBOX: Florian Wirtz is Liverpool ‘passenger’ and the new Juan Sebastian Veron

Shock as another Liverpool fan conflates Wirtz and Tuchel

Muthama asks “what are England?”, an easy enough question to answer. They are the 4th ranked team in the World and 3rd ranked European team.

I was never a Southgate fan. in fact I despised him for his “fantastic” record of getting England to where England should be getting, semi-finals and finals before eventually losing to a team ranked higher (or sometimes lower) saw him heralded as a brilliant manager (insert Roy Keane quote), quarter finals were called a success! As an analogy (poor I accept), Jannik Sinner or Carlos Alcaraz NOT reaching a grand slam final is treated as a shock.

England are expected to win all their qualifying games, it’s the style and manner of those wins that brings the early judgement, Tuchel’s drab start rightly raised some criticism and Tuesday night’s result doesn’t really change anything. He can only be judged when faced with better opposition and that will only come in the latter stages of major tournaments or the Nations League.

So to judge him after a handful of games is no different than the ridiculous “rating” of Florian Wirtz, Wirtz has (rightly) been defended as he has three Premier League appearances, Tuchel has had 4 competitive games and very little time to work with the players. He’s not had some of the “better” players available for all the games, Bellingham, Saka, Stones and Palmer would all likely start, last night saw 6 different starters than his first game in charge.

He has shown he is capable of expected success, PSG and Bayern, but has also won when the underdog, Dortmund and Chelsea, let’s judge him when his skills or lack of will be tested, Wirtz has not ripped up any trees yet but has 3 appearances and 3 wins, a couple of those games, with apologies to a very good Bournemouth side, had an element of jeopardy, Tuchel has 4 from 4, friendlies don’t count, The World Cup group games will probably see his first real test so let’s wait till then before coming to a verdict.
Howard (Lee Dixon never mentioned his gaff) Jones

A note on prejudice

Lewis, Busby Way writes that it’s people like Dean that make everyone dislike/laugh heartily at you – referring to sensible scousers.

I would suggest that people like Dean are simply used to justify people’s own pre-existing prejudices.

If you want to dislike/laugh heartily at Dean for what he wrote, go for it. However, when you use the behaviour of one individual or a small number of individuals to go after a larger group, then that’s not ok.

The whole world is currently full of situations exacerbated by people labeling whole groups in a certain way because of the actions of a small minority.

History tells us we need to stop this.

However, Arsenal fans, they truly ARE the worst and it’s ok to say that because it’s the overwhelming majority of them! 😉
Mark, LFC, An MhI and sometimes the ‘Pool of Life’

The man himself writes…

I feel compelled to defend myself against Lewis, Busby Way’s horrible personal attack regarding an alleged LFC infused fart intoxication!

The point I was making Lewis was that the more unhinged part of the Liverpool support can be, partly, explained by the relative high amount of tragedy linked to the club. I don’t have that emotional link and don’t consider the club to be more special than any other club. I just thought it was an interesting take on why some LFC fans are like that.

As for being intoxicated on my own farts, I’ve just had some oven meatballs with chopped onions so this evening is going to be challenging, but I can assure you it will have nothing to do with LFC.
Dean (LFC)

Sponsor me

Had been wondering why Chelsea had not taken advantage of the ‘easy money’ shirt sponsorship route but it looks like they were waiting for the Man City decision to come in. Now that the FA have come to an agreement (absolutely not a rule change) I’m sure they will be announcing a £2 billion deal with Clear Blue Lake & Co (absolutely above board) very soon. Sure to be followed with Newcastle teaming up with Saudi Arabia’s 2nd biggest tractor supplier in a £3 billion deal (nothing to see here). Aston Villa will then likely broker a new kit supplier to outstrip Man City’s £100 million a year deal with Puma (can’t move for seeing all those kits).

The FA will sit back in true VAR style and congratulate each other on a good process and the world moves on.

In the end it’s only money, and as long as Everton are deducted 10 points, that’s all that really matters.
Martin, LFC (other conspiracy theories are available)

Why Muslim representation is important

FAO G Thomas: if you want answers to your questions about Djed Spence becoming England’s first Muslim international (“who cares?”, “what is the relevance?”, and “[I don’t care so] why mention it?”), maybe you should ask a Muslim football fan?

I’m always surprised by how diverse the friendship groups are of the #genuinelycurious crowd; so I’m sure some of your best friends are Muslim and can give you all the info you’re after.
Neil Raines (That Mark N. Rojez guy played well on Tuesday night, Villa should try and sign him. And then sell him on PSR.com next year obviously)

Also, a joke…

*Djed Spence as First Muslim English International*

G Thomas, Breda won’t care but while Djed Spence could be the first Sunni Muslim to play for England I’m sure I heard a number of people say that John Terry is a Shi’ite.
Daithí Dublin