Everybody makes the same point about Florian Wirtz and Kevin de Bruyne…

Anybody criticising Florian Wirtz needs to remember all the other early flops who came good. Obviously none of them cost £100m but carry on.

The German dominates the Mailbox after being poor for Germany again.

Send your views to theeditor@football365.com

Defending Wirtz from early criticism

Gaptoothfreak talking many types of nonsense. De Bruyne had two years at Chelsea making 3 appearances and scoring 0 goals. His first start at City was his 5th appearance in England where he scored his first goal. In a game that City lost. Wirtz hasn’t even played that many games in England yet and two of those appearances are against famous anti-footballing sides Newcastle and Arsenal.

Maybe if all new signings could have a 2 year apprenticeship at Chelsea before signing, it would make the adjustment much easier. Seems to have worked for Salah.

It’s been three games people.
Alex, South London

…When Kevin de Bruyne first started playing for Chelsea at the age of 22 (after being loaned out when originally bought) he was lambasted as being lazy, lightweight and sulky. He was declared a complete flop, and when Man City signed him for £60m, a few years later, the transfer was met with widespread derision.

When Thierry Henry signed for Arsenal at the age of 22, he was labelled a complete waste of money by the fans, he didn’t score for eight games, and the press was full of chatter about how he was struggling to adapt to English football.

Pretty much the same thing happened with Bergkamp, when he signed for Arsenal at the age of 26, when he was an established international and was expected to hit the ground running.

Drogba had a very ropey first season for Chelsea (he was 26 and an established player, like Bergkamp), scoring just ten goals, and was criticised extensively as a diving donkey.

The year before Robert Pires won the Football Writers’ POTY, it was his debut season and he was written off as too lightweight for the Premier League.

The list goes on and on.

None of this means that Florian Wirtz is going to be a success at Liverpool, obviously, but FFS, he’s played three games for Liverpool. Three. Maybe give him a little bit longer before writing him off, perhaps?
Mat (Nick – Lee is not the democratically appointed spokesperson for all Liverpool fans)

…Gaptoothfreak, Man. Utd., New York I had to laugh at your desperate email. It shows how far the mighty have fallen that you’ve got nothing hopeful to say about your own club after 3 games of the season so you’ve reverted to hoping one of our big signings will be a failure.

I will just grant you that he’s been a passenger this far and yet we are still top of the league and unbeaten against three very good opponents. Imagine what happens if Slot starts to rotate him out or if he finds his feet?

Wirtz is a young man who has left his home country for the first time. He’s adapting to new training methods, a new level of intensity and pressure and a new league. De Bruyne trained with Chelsea for a couple of years in their glory period and even had a few appearances; who can say how valuable a period like that would’ve been for his development and adaptation to England. The same could be said of “Chelsea flop” Mo Salah.

Maybe you should focus on the positives of this season. You’ve got the next round of the carabao to focus on…oh. You’ve got Man City next in the league…oh. You’ve got the great new owner to reinvigorate the club…you’ve got the brightest coach in Europe at the helm…lol some Man Utd fans are slow enough to actually believe that last one is serious.
Minty, LFC

…Right, I see how it is. 3 games and we’ve already written Wirtz off as a waste of money. I know we’re in the modern age of instant conclusions and attention spans of a fruit fly, but can we maybe hold off on judgements?

Gaptoothfreak compares him to De Bruyne, who “set the tempo from day one.”. That may be the case at City, but that’s not when he joined the Premier League is it? He didn’t exactly set the world alight at Chelsea. De Bruyne was 24 when he joined City (Veron was 26 at United), Wirtz has just turned 22 and is in a brand new league.

We could also look at some other examples:

Modric: Voted worst La Liga signing of the season half way through his campaign for Madrid. He turned out alright.
Drogba: One goal in 5 games, before a modest 10 Premier League Goals in his debut season
Henry: No goals in first 8 PL games. Had quite a good career after that
Firmino: No goal in first 12 PL games
Evra: Hooked at half time on debut loss vs City. Lost 3-0 to Wolves in 2nd match.

None of us know whether Wirtz will come good, but please can we give it some time before making assumptions? There are plenty of Premier League players who began slowly and turned into some of the all time greats.
Mike, LFC, Dubai

Somebody didn’t understand the Mailbox concept…

You wrote an article dismissing Wirtz after a few Liverpool games.

I dismissed your article after a few paragraphs; you’re a shite journalist firing out click bait.
Calvin Maddix

Onana should be bottom of Man Utd keeper list

Hope all’s good with everyone.

I just read the list of United goalkeepers rankings. I know you probably get battered for these lists often but how is Onana not firmly in last place?

Romero in your own words had 39 clean sheets in 61 games. Kuszczak won 3 premier leagues and a Champions league. Onana has done sweet FA other than make everything he does worse. His passing stats are worse than De Gea at Fiorentina. He slows absolutely everything down to walking pace when the ball goes back to him and this was meant to be what he’s good at!

He can’t catch crosses or command his box. any shot at his goal has more chance of going in than being saved and as soon as this happens the team fold knowing the keeper is absolute pony.

You can go back to his first signing till now and find a ridiculous amount of examples of his mistakes out of nothing leading to a United crumble. Especially in the Champions league. think Copenhagen, Galatasaray and Bayern Munich. All good team performances ruined by him making a mistake out of nothing causing United to collectively shit one. The sooner he is gone the better for everyone involved.

And for the record I was one of the people saying this will not end well when they signed him. Even in the Champions league final v City he was dropping crosses and flapping all over the place. I just can’t work out what anyone sees in him.
Chaz (East London)
(He doesn’t even dive like a proper Keeper)

More piling on F365

Is Football365 just going to be like every other website then?

I actually had to read the mailbox twice to understand the title being Newcastle ‘mugged Liverpool blind’ and Alexander Isak ‘needs to fire his agent’ as even in their darkest hours I have heard Newcastle fans say Isak is rubbish. It turns out Newcastle robbed Liverpool blind over Andy Carroll. So, the title should read Newcastle ‘mugged Liverpool blind’ 14 years ago and Alexander Isak ‘needs to fire his agent’. Maybe not quite as snappy but come on, don’t be like everyone else.

This comes off the back of Man Utd eye ‘unexpected’ January signing as Kane is tipped for Red Devils transfer in 2026. The unexpected January signing? That’s right, Marco Verratti.

We can have a nice joke about Mediawatch Mediawatching Football365 but it might be better to just stop it. And maybe stop with the headlines which are practically impossible to read as well. I mean, what the hell is this mess- Liverpool: ‘Frontrunner’ for Guehi revealed as ‘latest’ Euro giant ‘join’ to ‘take advantage’ of ‘collapse’?
Micki (wavering loyal reader for 20+ years) Attridge

Fanmail for John Nicholson

Being Irish, I couldn’t give less of a toss about what goes on with the English national team but my goodness, the stench of condescension and just sheer unkindness off Johnny Nic’s latest piece is seriously off putting.

Dehumanising players, questioning their intelligence. Elliot Anderson didn’t know what manifest meant, scoff scoff scoff. Christ.

We all know Johnny likes to watch German second division on YouTube and whatnot because he loves to tell us and this really ties in with his love for calling Premier League players stupid.

His GSCE teacher analogy is shite too, given the general consensus is, the best teachers find ways to get through to their students (maybe that’s why Southgate did well?) without lowering their intellect, whatever that means. Maybe stick to analysing the football itself because this attacking of people is just distasteful and smells of red top nonsense.
Alan

…Johnny Nic probably isn’t wrong but after watching Germany and the Netherlands, both playing lower ranked clubs and struggling, is it just England?

And to be fair to Tuchel, NornIron gave a good go at keeping Germany at bay – without 2 banks of 5 – and Gernany still struggled badly. A lucky bounce that the keeper mistimed and a wonder strike of a free kick, glossed over their lack of creativity.

Nagelsmann also comes across as a right prick. While Germany played a lot of long balls, he criticizes NornIron as if they are antedilivian for effectively doing the same thing. I guess that’s what happens when you are feted as the greatest manger ever when young. Things go to your head. Tuchel, at least, is relatively level headed, if too cerebral for our boys.

Be interesting to see which of these two fare better.

As it stands, only Spain seem to be playing anything near exciting football, continuing on from where they left off at the Euros.

But it strikes me that Southgate’s Achilles heel, according to the media, and Tuchel’s biggest challenge, was going to be how he got the best out of the ‘abundance’ of creative talent England possess. So somewhat ironic that so many are injured during International break, that his opportunities to assess and blend them together will be limited. The risk of starting the role so late. But then, perhaps it is the building of the base platform, whether Anderson or Wharton, that is the most essential to allow whatever creative we have available, to thrive. After all, Spain have two of the best in Rodri and, now, Zubimendi.
Paul McDevitt